Thank god I don't have Hangman's Trick unlocked
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Here's the problem: Unless sabotaging becomes a game-winning strategy, it will never be better than genrushsing, so it will never be prevalent enough that a perk that is only good against sabotaging will be anything better than garbage.
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"It was one of my most VITAL perks on Trapper and based my entire build around that fact of being able to reuse hooks no matter what."
Your fun had to be sacrificed for the greater good of the game.
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So kill off a situational killer perk?
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That's not a problem, not all changes are made in favor of shaking the meta.
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I mean, you did suggest that the sabo changes were done to give people a reason to leave gens. I'm saying it won't happen.
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As i said, Old HT would simply be overkill compared to the new sabo mechanics, it needed to be toned down.
HT is not dead, it's just as situational.
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Yeah, and as we said, they had to nerf something that was already in the game and that was already underused just to justify making the new sabotage changes overpowered?
Way more survivors will run sabotage builds now VS how many killers will run Hangman's Trick to counter them.. seeing the auras and getting notifications won't matter if the hooks don't regenerate faster (or at all, in case of sacrifice hooks)
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Wait so the situation is different then? A survivor cant get away from you after sabotaging and taking a hit right before it.
Am confused
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Old HT was already one of the worst perks in the game. This is a worse version of that perk. It is dead. :P
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The changes are yet to be tested into normal play, people are using the theoretical worst case scenario to justify dooming this gameplay change as unfun.
People said that doctor's afflictions nerf to t1 would make them useless, and it didn't.
Give it time, if it's bad just as you say, it will be changed.
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Playing Trapper was fun. Plenty of bad games in honest, but it was fun to play as a truly different Killer time to time and Trapper was for all his faults a fun Killer to play as. Was. Without HT, my Trapper is going to struggle a lot. Would love to keep playing all of these varied Killers. But if they aren't viable or if I can't make them viable to where Im not losing every ######### game. Then Im just not going to bother. If that happens to enough Killers, Im just not going to bother playing DbD at all.
Why should I bother to buy all of the Killers if almost NONE of them are worth playing? I DID buy ALL of the Killers so far (minus Deathslinger) and Im feeling like that money is going to waste when every time I bother to play as a non meta Killer it ends up badly more often than not.
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Are you really that surprised? These are the same people who took the worst killers in the history of this game (Freddy, then the Legion), acknowledged that they were complete garbage, and then gutted them anyway because rank 21s couldn't be bothered to adapt to them.
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Are you actually serious oh my god
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have any of yours the best testers even tested it ?
im sorry but this is absolutely pathetic.. in that time you actually see someone is sabotating hook it will be sabotaged..
second : you realize that from worthless perk you changed it to even more worthless and useless ? this is what you call remake ? what a waste of time and resources.. and this is not typed from rage but from frustration.. so sad..
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It was "dead", you're overexaggerating this change.
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I disagree. I think it takes a "dead" perk and makes it more "dead." I doubt I would EVER equip this perk as-is.
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And they made it even deader. They saw the dead perk on the ground, teabagged it and then stabbed it a bit more for good measure, just to be sure no one ever uses it again, even if barely anyone did in the first place. And then they wonder why everyone runs the same meta builds.. because the good fun perks get nerfed for no reasons!
Wonder what other weird perk I run for fun on my builds they'll nerf next.. Maybe I should just go with the meta builds and not bother trying to play differently from the others.
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Yes, they can.
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No one is going to sacrifice a perk slot for a situational perk. It's the same with lightborn.
On the other hand, survivors don't need to sacrifice anything for ridiculous sabo speed.
Good lord, your guys logic is silly.
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Your icon is a Pig perk. How do you not have hangman's trick unlocked?
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Because Hangman's Trick is garbage?.
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So its now a situational perk but one that doesn't actually completely help you that much in that situation since its not even that good as an anti-sabo perk. If I use up a perk slot just to block one tiny part of survivors abilities then I should be able to mostly block that rare play style.
I also don't understand why the devs messed with sabo in the first place. Who asked? I haven't even heard survivors request it. And it further buffs SWFs.
No one is using that perk outside of meme builds.
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I for one thought it was nice for a perk to be on par with BBQ + Thrilling... especially a Pig perk. : P
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I mean, 32m circumference circles around every hook in the map didn't seem broken to you guys. I suggested lowering that, and it also at the same time would add slowdown like thrill of the hunt to sabotage. But the aura reading to see almost everything happening on the map was too addictive for a perk that is not meant for that.
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But the devs want no counter to sabo. That is the entire point of this.
This is why they change it to something clearly a bit to strong (while removimg the previous use) and hope we forget what it did. And then nerf the new perk into oblivion to keep the MONEY happy.
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I mean, in PTB sabo wouldn't be used until you finished breaking the hook, it now disables as soon as you stop, so if you hit someone trying to sabo, sabo it disabled and the only way to beat it would be with a tool box, I've played a lot of killer since death slinger game out and haven't had a single person trying to sabo, again, players kicking up a fuss about something that isn't going to be used all that much.
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So basically you need hangmans trick to counter sabo. You give every survivor immediate access to sabo, but hide the counter behind a paywall and massive grind to unlock it.... And you wonder why the killer mains have a deep hatred for the devs. Wee bit of bias there.
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A lot of perks on both sides in dbd require very specific cases to ever be useful. That's what creates meta builds: perks that are good in nearly every game you play. There's too many *specific* perks that no one would ever run because why run that when you could run something you know will be of value? If people don't run meta perks then they call it memeing.
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Not surprised.
Now that sabo got buffed the radius is 'too big'.
Don't remember it getting changed last chapter when it was 'too big'.
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I unironically liked old Hangman's Trick.
It wasn't strong, but it was fun to be able to Sacrifice multiple Survivors on the same hook. Situationally useful too, depending on the map and the hook spawns.
The PTB version probably needed a nerf from what I heard of it, but now it's just an anti-Sabo perk that doesn't anti-Sabo. What's the point of that?
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Calm spirit counters doctor and infectious fright as well as scream add-ons.
Stridor can negate the 100-percent silence on iron will
One stack of sole survivor can completely counter nurses calling, all seeing, and Amanda's letter
Distortion can completely counter BBQ and chili
Plauge counters heal perks, so does Legion pin
A stacked autodidact can completely negate the effects of of the slow down with non obsession dying light, sloppy Butcher, thanatophobia and that clown perk when it comes to healing
What's your point there are multiple perks that can completely counter other perks or playstyles
Saying a perk should be near enough practically useless because it could counter a playstyle is stupid.
If you equip hangman's trick you're keeping it on the rare idea that you might go up against sabotage due to the removal of Hook respawns perk will be literally completely useless if there's no sabotage. You could argue to prevent body blocking but at that stage I might as well just bring mad Grit
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The range is so short now that it's not enough time to deal with sabotage, they have plenty of time to run in and sabo because you get practically no warning at each tier, 10m MAYBE but 6 is too small
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It was good for killer, of course they couldn't leave it in
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Hangman's Trick didn't stop sabotage, it just gives the killer an early warning on what hooks to avoid. However, smart survivors would just follow the killer to whatever hook they want to go for and sabotage that one. The killer can't change hooks when they committed to one already, so they are forced to make a trade.
Sabotaging a hook costs the survivor the following depending on the situation.
Positive Trade:
Slugged Survivor + 1 Health State Damage + 1-2 Survivors Repairing
Negative Trade:
Escaped Survivor + 1 Health State Damage + 2 Survivors Repairing
OR
Escaped Survivor + 0 Health State Damage + 2 Survivors Repairing
Hangman's Trick doesn't prevent sabotaging when survivors play it smart and force the killer no choice but to commit to a hook. Therefore, I believe Hangman's Trick should have increased aura reading and replace the visual notification with something else.
Hangman's Trick:
When carrying a survivor, all hooks within carrying distance will reveal auras of survivors within 12/14/16 meters to those hooks.
Survivors suffer from the exposed status effect for 45 seconds after they sabotage a hook.
If you read carefully, I said... all hooks within carrying distance which means you won't see survivors across the map if they are near a hook. Only hooks that you can potentially be used will reveal auras of survivors. There's no point in showing the aura of a survivor near a hook across the map when there's no way you will be able reach that hook.
The exposed status effect gives the killer the ability to drop the carried survivor and try to get the saboteur quickly. 😁
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Are you just always rude when you respond to people?
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"A lot of perks on both sides in dbd require very specific cases to ever be useful."
That's why most of them are bad.
The reason for most of our meta is because we have perks that are not situational AND still extremely strong. They should be designed as situational but very strong or not situational but just okay. The failure to adhere to that is how we got where we are today.
Post edited by Blueberry on1 -
Yeah well that's entirely the wrong way to go at it. The perk was fine the way it was, they had no reason at all to change it.. None! It was literally the only way to counter old sabotage and now that they have sabotage a huge buff, they removed the only counter it had.. A counter barely anyone used in the first place, too! What the hell Behaviour!
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Am I wrong though? I've not seen a single team try and sabo every hook, when I've seen sabo I've been the only one using it, I'm not wrong that players kicked up a fuss because they saw "2.5seconds" and had absolutely no understanding that it wouldn't impact the game much at all.
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You are not seeing how i've been seeing it in most of my matches, and I have been running a sabo build since the update. You think i'm not going to take advantage of having full control over the killers whole objective? Any survivor can hold M1 on a gen, and that's all I need the other 3 survivors for.
I'm going to type to you like how I see you treat people on these forums, so hopefully you understand.
Don't be so stupid and just assume the state of the game is what is from just your perspective. The game is worldwide, and over multiple platforms. Youre experience in this game greatly differs from the majority of players. It's pretty ignorant of you to just insult people because they don't believe or experience what you assume is fact.
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Well, whenever I give my example of how I see the game as a killer (a walk in the park btw) I'm constantly told "you clearly don't play killer" and "probably play in like rank 10 or something" so I'm not entirely sure why I should give others the benefit of the doubt when being mildly good at this game lands me 4K after 4K when all these god tier killer mains on the forum struggle to get 2 kills a match.
and whenever I show evidence, or anyone shows evidence of a weak build, or weak killer do well it's just the "survivors were clearly bad" etc, excuse after excuse, there has been nothing added to this game that makes it harder (besides ruin) and even before ruin killers still have the same issue despite all the changes that have made survivors weaker & killers stronger, I don't see how the game could possibly be "harder" lol.
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It DID stop sabotage, bc not only you know what hooks are 99'd, but also the sabo'd hooks would come back after 10 seconds.
A smart killer with HT would simply:
A - Go for a hook that's not 99'd
or
B - Slug the downed survivor, wait for the hook repair, then pick him up
Yes, both of these are countered by sandbagging the hook, however, taking hits isn't saboing. Eventually, the survivors would notice the HT and simply stop trying.
As for new HT, yes it is a bad perk, just like old HT, due to its situational nature (a counterplay to sabo). It was very strong on the ptb, got nerfed, back to the trash can.
The devs want to, at least, give a chance to the new sabo before forgetting about it (or nerfing if it's too strong), therefore making a 0 iq counterplay tool on top of the new sabo release would be counter-intuitive. I agree with this decision from BHVR.
Old sabo squad had little counterplay and it was very unfun to play against (everyone plays immersed until all hooks are 99'd, t-bagging no-mither to loop since he can't be slugged, sandbagging 4 days, unbreakabill's/flip-flop's) that's why HT was allowed to be so ######### good in its niche, because the worst case scenario was bad, but also insanely rare.
New sabo is a different story, since toolboxes have less charges and hooks respawn way faster, therefore no need for an overkill perk.
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Survivors didn't ask for a change to sabotaging you are correct, but killer mains endlessly cried about toolboxes and how it made their games end too quickly. They got their wish of having toolboxes nerfed to the ground. The charges are so low now a survivor wouldn't be able to sabotage a single hook with the length of time it used to take to sabotage.
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