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Iron Will is a subtle OP perk.
This perk is probably one of the most frustrating perks to go against when playing a killer on a map where stealth is an easy option. I acknowledge that it is a very strong perk, probably in the top 5/10 - but in my opinion, it is beyond overpowered and contributes to the ''gen rush'' phenomenon.
Why as the killer, when you already have difficulty in finding survivors in certain circumstances, are you not rewarded explicitly for injuring them? Not only does it promote anti-healing play styles and gen-rush tactics but it also contributes to issues of looping that the killer has. Audio is very key to the killer role and making the survivors mute for essentially the entire game, is very very powerful.
I'm probably biased as a killer main, but even as a survivor, I find it obnoxious how I can stealth whilst being injured so easily without any effort. I'd recommend the perk to be reduced to a cool down, where it activates only once (like lucky break) for a certain amount of time.
Thoughts?
Comments
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i just hate how they can easily ditch loops while the killer is mindgaming himself at the jungle gym while the survivor is long gone, like you can hear a healthy survivor running by their breathing but injured survivors with iron will literally make no noise, only footsteps which are covered by the chase music, but generally it isn't overpowered, just a strong perk
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That's another subtle thing as well. Survivors when injured make less noise when fully healthy. Staying injured with a perk like ''Dead Hard'' pretty much makes you full health in some circumstances.
No wonder why survivors choose not to heal and just rush generators, considering they can still hide from the killer.
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Killers have a lot of frustrating perks to go up against too. I'd argue that Devour Hope is subtly OP. The Gen-Rush meta was also formed because a lot of killers decided to make themselves a KILL-Rush meta after Ruin rework.
If you wanted to counter Iron Will, then I'd suggest running Stridor as a lot of Spirit players say that it is really good at countering it.
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Get boiled over it counters iron grasp
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There's nothing overpowered about Devour Hope, if you ask me. Unlike Iron Will, there is a non-perk counter to the power itself (I.E cleanse the totem, force the killer to stay in the vicinity to not gain stacks). For DH, you need to hook survivors after ending chases with them, it's one of the best perks for rewarding the killer.
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If you don't like Iron Will, counter it with Stridor, Blood Hound, etc. There are counters, it's on you to break from your meta perks to use it.
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Exposure without notice after 3 hooks. Kind of subtle and a little OP.
There is also the perkless counter of just looking for them or following scratch marks, not exactly the most intuitive answer, but still one to consider.
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You say that yet some of those perks are essential in making the killer role less miserable. With the rampant issue of gen times, you can't blame killers for having to bring anti-gen rush perks.
I know there is Stridor, but the idea of ''just bring this perk'' to counter it isn't entirely viable, as once you are in a game, you cannot change your perks at all.
That's like how people said ''just bring iron will'' to the counter spirit argument, where it was invalid.
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I'd say spine chill is more OP than iron will. It sucks how they can see you before you ever see them, and know everytime you look in there direction. Not to mention it completely kills stealth killers. That's what needs to go on a damn cooldown...
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I don't understand why you're complaining about survivors being too powerful when they're a one-hit down. There's no difference between a survivor with Iron Will active and a survivor who's exposed. Both are in your favour, it's just not as much in your favour as you want it to be.
If they want to stealth, let them stealth. A good killer will track them down regardless.
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That's why IW is my go to perk 100% of the time and why i wanna harakiri everytime i face a stridor spirit/nurse.
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Ehh, it never gets in my way.
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I think Iron Will is fine as is, personally. It is good at what it does, but I think what it grants you is worth one perk slot. If it did anything less, it almost certainly would not be worth the slot.
Devour Hope is not remotely close to OP. It does borderline nothing until you get three tokens from it, and if the Survivors find the totem before you can use it, your perk went to waste hardcore. You have to actually earn the Exposed ability, and from there, you are probably not going to keep it for long unless you get very lucky. It is basically a much worse NOED.
Also, the gen rush meta absolutely did not start in response to a "kill rush" meta. I think it is generally agreed that gen rushing came to prominence a good while back when Self Care was nerfed and people ended up finding out that Adrenaline was just better.
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I totally can blame them actually. Because instead of countering the survivors perks to put more pressure on them, you use perks to counter gen pop times which means you can't put pressure on survivors. So now you have nothing to aid you to shorten chases on survivors so you can focus more on gens. I'm a Rank 1 killer main and I think the only "Meta" killer perk I use is BBQ and Chili. And I only use that for the extra BP. My other 3 perks are always swapped with new stuff to counter new people every game.
Yet instead of countering their perks with numerous perks you have at your disposal, you just want them to nerf it / stop using that perks? It's ridiculous.
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Counterpoint: In the case of Iron Will, you would not be countering survivor perks to put more pressure on them. You would be countering survivor perks to take back some of the pressure they took from you in the first place.
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Devour only ever becomes 'subtly OP' when it actually has a good spawn point. The spots on the Preschool where totems are nestled between bushes and trees is nice. That's very few spots, though. Most other maps, it's right there in the open with a spotlight from heaven pointing down on it.
I do think you're backwards on the whole 'kill rush' meta. Gen rushing has been a thing for the last year. It had a bandaid with Ruin, so it was less apparent. Remove Ruin, and you had games going from fifteen minutes down to seven. It forced killers to focus those downs as fast as possible. Since at least half the maps are the size of Alaska, a killer can't spend time giving every survivor a 60 second chase and three hooks each, unless he wants to lose.
Personally, I find Iron Will more of an annoyance. Not so much when the survivor pulls a Houdini mid chase, but when they tail me as I'm hooking somebody, and get the rescue as I'm leaving. Make it double if they're using BT. Irks me.
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Counterpoint to the Counterpoint: No matter what perk a survivor uses, they take away your ability to do pressure regardless because it aids them in the trials somehow in some fashion.
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You are right, but when you equip a perk with the intent of countering another perk, you are just taking back pressure they are taking away from you, not adding pressure onto them as you said before.
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Yes... that's the point. It's supposed to even the playing field so it's not one sided. Every single perk in this game has a counter to another perk/power. The pressure on the killer is the survivors surviving. The pressure on the survivors is the killer killing them. There's going to be pressure regardless.
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IW is far from OP. It's just a perk which allows another playstyle ie stealth. Even then you still have blood and scratch marks so its only really effective when they stop running which means you know they are still in the area.
It seems you may have trouble telling when someone is running IW and they can lose you very easily. Don't rely solely on sound and use a mixture of visual as well if it's becoming problematic.
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What I'm saying is that this:
Because instead of countering the survivors perks to put more pressure on them
is not really an accurate way of phrasing things because equipping killer perks to counter survivor perks is not generating pressure for the killer.
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"I know there is Stridor, but the idea of ''just bring this perk'' to counter it isn't entirely viable, as once you are in a game, you cannot change your perks at all."
Funny. "Just bring this perk" is an argument that Killers like to use.
"once you are in a game you cannot change your Perks at all"... Erm... This was one main argument why Spirit Is fine as she is. "Just bring Iron Will". Seeing a Perk as a Counter for one Killer, when you cannot know for sure which Killer you will go against is not an argument.
But glad that people realize it, when it affects themself.
Honestly - you can still use Blood to track. Iron Will is a really useful and strong Perk, but Blood cannot go away. And it is true, if you REALLY have a problem with Iron Will, you can use Stridor. It counters Iron Will, the Killer Perk trumps the Survivor Perk here. And even without Iron Will, better Tracking with Stridor is not the worst thing to have.
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It's not that it is strictly OP, but has it's somewhat OP elements. I'm actually ok with Devour and it's hidden Exposed because you have to earn it.
As for kill/gen rushing, I'm not a fan either way and still prefer Self-Care over Adrenaline, but then again I prefer perks that AREN'T one use only. Except Decisive Strike, but I use it as intended.
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Exposed by itself isn't OP or not OP. It depends on how it's implemented. In the case of Devour Hope, it's not.
And the point is that the gen-rush meta was absolutely not caused by killers responding to the Ruin rework. It existed WELL before that point.
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Point was that killers have their subtlety within perks and their powerful effects too.
As for gen-rush, I didn't notice it until the Ruin-rework. I noticed it more around the time of more campers and tunnellers in response to the Ruin rework. Survivors just did gens instead of rewarding trash killer play.
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I don't think Iron Will needs any changes.
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As a person who has awful tracking skills to where I use headphones to hear people instead of seeing them iron will destroys me
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I mean...there's nothing really subtle about Devour Hope. Unless you're talking about how subtle the effect of 2 tokens is. :P
Trust me. Gen rushing was around for WAY longer than you think.
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