Games without DS are a free win
You can hardcore tunnel someone out of the game within the first two gens. And then use that to get a massive advantage in the mid/late game.
If you're not running obsession perks and there's no obsession, feel free to redeem your free ticket to tunnel for a easy win.
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You aren’t wrong, I run DS every game just so the killer at least has to consider that everyone may have it
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Still depends a lot on the survivors though, how good they are in chases, and how good they are at rushing gens and protecting other survivors that need protection. A tunneling killer can sometimes be punished by rushing gens.
However, I do kinda feel like DS is a necessity at times, even just to make the game enjoyable. And solo survivor teams always have a much harder time punishing killers for camping and tunneling. Camping and tunneling in general just are too effective for the little skill these strategies take, and if a top tier killer that can win without playing like that tunnels, things can look pretty dark. That's why i think tunneling and camping need to be nerfed in some way, once more killers become viable.
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I mean, if I struggle to catch people, it not really a free win, is it? :P
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no, because as always the time and math is against you as killer. But, I will give you that killers, including me, nowadays tend to tunnel more than prior (before ds change) if there's no obsession in the match.
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I don't use DS and I survive (relatively) often.
As I said in another thread, I found it didn't come into play more often than not. Whether that's my luck or killers are getting smarter about it is up for debate I suppose.
Either way, I'd rather have a good perk that is always in play rather than a great perk to have but only useful in certain situations. Sure, I miss DS in those situations but that's the gamble I take.
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I'm guessing you're also someone who wants DS to be nerfed, no?
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The problem is if No one on your team is the obsession the killer knows he is safe from DS... if at least one person has it then being without it isn’t so bad because the killer will leave you 9/10 times especially at high ranks assuming you have it.
If someone is the obsession I even fake the locker DS and killers leave me alone more often than not. I had one killer stare at the locker for about 70-80 seconds before grabbing me out, I didn’t even have DS but it bought my team a lot of time
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You're wrong, but I do understand it. If you hardcore tunnel someone you're only pressuring one survivor, wich leads into gens done, considering the survivors are good, if they are bad its ez if you tunnel or not
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Unfortunately, this is truth. Zero IQ killers always camp/tunnel if no obsessions in game.
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Even without DS, survivors still tend to have the competitive advantage. This is especially the case when on a survivor-sided map and/or a weak killer. DS just makes it even more survivor sided by giving survivors a massive safety net.
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And this is why people use ds lmao. I go after whoever pops up in ny face ds or not.
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Noone having an obsession perk (or either of the 3 addons) is a huge disadvantage to survivors, even if the killer isn't intentionally tunneling, it stops them from having to think about DS timers at all, and just hit whoever they like. This does definitely increase the odds a killer will aim to take out one survivor quickly, though.
Ever since the changes to Ruin (previously, you where guaranteed about 12 seconds of slowdown per gen, even if survivors only hit great skillchecks) killers have been forced to play in unfun manors to slow gens down. This often equates to trying to get 4 downs on the same survivor as early as they can, so that they can actually make an attempt to defend generators meaningfully, or forcing the survivors to 3-gen themselves at the basement. If ruin could even just keep the element of removing Great skillcheck bonuses, it may be usable again (without being overly opressive and a must-cleanse in lower ranked games), and let the game return to a more interesting state.
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For what it's worth, that only works as well as the other survivors let it work. If you end up tunneling that guy through a BT or two, the other three healthy survivors are going to have nothing to do but generators. As long as they don't hang around trying to be a hero, those generators will be done by the time you do tunnel that one guy to death.
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True, you can "TOUNEL" 4 survivors at the same time.
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If you have a possibility to down him fast if not your tunneling will end up in one kill after all gens popped up.
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Don't get caught first.
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That's true. If killer sees you have no DS, he will tunnel you.
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DS or not, I try my best not to tunnel simply because it's not fun for that survivor. I'll slug them, but I won't hook them.
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This is also the reason everyone runs DS more often than not.
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You don't know how many times i've been called a tunneler because they had BT and trying to body block for their healthy friend. I just waited out the BT and then downed him, hooked him after he missed his DS and then post game chat the hole team called me a tunneler. I guess, that's how survivor works now
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Tbf, as a killer whenever I notice no obsession I don't tunnel for some odd reason
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It feels awful to be accidentally tunneled, but you can’t really blame killers for doing it since they need pressure anyway. However, you can blame the p3 Claudette who unhooked you and immediately hid at the edge of the map, leaving your loudly moaning, not camouflaged butt to get slapped down and put right back on the hook.
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It seems if survivors would wait for the killer to leave before rushing to save more killers would leave the hook ill static blast after a hook and if nobody screams ill patrol gens but im not leaving if i know others are there no free unhook if you get unhooked in frontnof me to me thats your teammates fault if i down you again
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You still have BT and We'll Make It.
Also, learn not to go down so easily.
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You are talking about experienced survivors here. That has zero to do with 90 percent of the survivor players. Tunneling and camping is extremely effective in the low ranks. This may seem like a natural progression, but it is actually a barrier to growth for the game.
Toxic players who can't handle losing in the purple and red ranks intentionally stay in the low ranks so they can tunnel and camp newer survivors. This discourages new players and they don't stick with the game. I personally have seen more than 20 people start this game based on my recommendation only to quit after a couple months. They all say the same reasons.
1. Way too toxic. Every match is camping or tunneling. Why play a game where you can't really experience learning it until you are high rank?
2. Too much grind for new players. Blood point rewards are way too low.
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Question: what's stopping you to enable an Obsession every game, no matter the perks in the trial? You would indirectly introduce an anti-tunnelling mechanic without any game play change.
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You admit to tunnelling and are surprised that ppl call you a tunneler? Alrighty
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How the ######### did i tunnel? That guy was a cocky survivor that was just blocking me thinking i'm gonna hit him while he's protected by BT, i waited it and hit him just because of that. You aren't really smart, are you?
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Agree. I would say this idea is very similar to not knowing if a killer has NOED (yes their play can sometimes give it away, you know what I mean though). Questioning whether there is DS or not should also happen every game no matter what.
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From what I have seen, matches were there is no obsession tend to make the killer tunnel more the same person that was just unhooked, because they know that no one has DS so they can just hunt down and hook the same person again, without any consequences. The idea of always having an obsession, even if there are not obsession perks in the match, seems to be a good idea.
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Well you definitely can...but that's a boring way to play the game. I don't understand the people who do this. How's it in any way rewarding or fun to constantly go after the person of least resistance and tunnel them out of a match just because you can? Those kinds of people are the ones who complain about the so-called "SWF bully groups" and "genrushers". Really pathetic.
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okay, also make all offerings secret that way the survivors don’t know if the killer attempts to use a mori and No one knows if anyone selected a certain map
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I will personally say as someone that plays both sides, survivor and killer, I honestly do not tunnel. I would hate to ruin someone else's experience especially let's say it is maybe their first time to the game and the first lesson is the killer tunnels or camps. I also think it is pointless to tunnel because if you keep chasing that one player the others are doing gens. Let that one run off and they may even waste time trying to heal while you go and butcher others with a smile on your face. =)
I am not saying not to tunnel or camp. Play as however you like but personally I think of it as a toxic way to play just like survivors who t-bag. I want everyone to have a good experience and get points. I have been on the end of a killer who would not leave the area and would not leave me alone. The time it takes for the load to match only to die on a hook with less than 3k points. It ruined my gameday and I took a break for a few days. I know that is my choice but I did not want to take the chance of getting that Player again so I took a break.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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Isn't NOED a good counter and a killer safety net? I mean considering the doors are normally pretty close together and I have never had a game where my dang teammates clear totems, it lets the killer 4k easy at the end. I think even Blood Warden can save a game as well. I am not trying to start anything but as much as DS is a safety net killers have safety nets to. It all comes down to you picking to use them or not.
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This is why i run DS/Unbreakable every single game, for the killers like you.
Killers tend to camp and tunnel when the survivor looped them for X gens. This is why are second chance perks, for killers like you.
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This why ds is used
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can't you loop or even hide from the killer?
and if he is indeed tunneling well might as well give it to him, if he is that focussed on you there is probably a reason why
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Maybe reread your own post dude before telling ppl they aren't smart. You look like a dummy.
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In my opinion I wouldn't touch DS for solos as i think they need it because they aren't that strong. But for SWF teams... the most fair thing will be that they couldn't activate more than 1 DS in the team like it used to be in the past.
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Well, Idk how that code would look like to only have DS changed for SWF, but it probably looks messy.
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Survivors Gen rush incase of tunnel, Killers have to tunnel or else they cant keep up with gen rush. The cycle goes on.
Some Killers said if Gen time isnt this fast, they will not tunnel. The point is, if Gen time increased to 200%, some Killers still tunnel because its a free win.
As we see now, after Ruin nerf doesnt mean Survivors stop Gen rush and ignore the whole totems thing.
This game must have something to remove Gen rush & tunneling. 2nd Objective and build-in DS (activated after each unhooked).
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DS is the strongest perk in the game, in my opinion. If there's an Obsession, you have to treat as if all survivors are using DS, which is very time consuming for the killer if survivors are coordinated enough.
DS can effectively, best case scenario here, give survivors 4 hook states because if you catch them after the unhook, you have to leave them. You can slug, yes, but sometimes not even that is an option such as the EGC or a survivor with DS is camping a generator that's almost complete (brownie points if they are using lockers).
Not saying DS is OP and needs a nerf, just saying it's a pretty strong perk if used correctly! Personally, I think it should have a trade of buffs and nerfs — make it a pure anti-tunnel perk and can't be used outside of tunneling. However, we buff it to punish tunneling even more to compensate. 😁
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I agree with you
Imagine a typical game without any DS / OoO on survivor side (often the case when you play without DS and with 3 randoms):
- low tier M1 killer with STBFL perk to help during chases ... he will not know about the DS-free game and the opportunity to remove early one player from the game
- high tier killer with pop-weasel perk ... he will be allowed to tunnel people without any penalty, even bonuses to maximize the use of the pop-weasel perk (more easy to down an already injured people to get a new pop) ... 3 man game with pop is an autopilot win if the 4th player has been removed early in the game (same issue with moris and pop-weasel perk)
You want to play other perks for fun ... and you just offer a free ticket to the killer: be rewarded by playing the most unfun way.
This is why there should be an obsession in every game ... whatever the perks used by all 5 players: the Entity simply chooses an obsession at start
I never understood why this is not the case @Peanits
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