played a game with a ebony mori, 2 hooks and then all gens were done and both exit gates were open.
just played a game against four premade rank 1 survivors as a rank 8 killer (DeathSlinger) and that game took about 5 minutes. Survivors needs another objective in this game other than holding mouse 1 and pressing space from time to time. i got no kills and they didnt even had to loop me, they just had to run to different houses as i lose my "speedboost" forgot the name for it, when i lose direct contact with a survivor (on michael myers map) it is insane how onesided this game really is, been out for like 3 to 4 years and still hasnt gotten any larger changes other than a nerf here and there. ONESIDED game is what it is, idk even know why im still playing after 2.5k hours....
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i dont know even know" sorry for the bad spelling lol, im frustrated lol
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If you are bad it is going to be one-sided. Four Rank 1 survivors what did you expect? And really if you have 2.5K hours and play as killer you really shouldn't be as low as rank 8. I have as many hours as you and I am rank 19 as killer, but then I don't play killer. If I played 4 rank 1s I'd get killed...to be honest if I play 4 rank 19s I will have problems. And it is called Bloodlust. As many will tell you so let me be the first...just git gud. Watch some good streamers and learn to just get better. The game isn't one-sided simply because you happen to be bad.
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first of all you're complaining about myers and speed like pwyf isn't a staple on that man
second you brought an ebony mori and you thought people weren't about to sweat. if i see mori im not taking ANY chances. I will play like a COMPLETE #########.
third you're playing deathslinger and complaining when that man practically has an instadown when played as intended
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that's another proof that keys are stronger than moris. You can bring as many ebonies as you want, but if you can't hook survivors and they genrush you, then it's over.
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Well , your first words kidna summed it all up.
No reason to take it hard. Game wasn't exactly balanced around 4 man swf with comms. I don't even consider those as real games cause there's nothing fair about those, unless they play with no comms, but we all know that all of them do.
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So there's a lot to unpack here.
I'll start with the "in your defense" type stuff.
Matchmaking is pretty bad occasionally and sometimes you're just going to end up against a stacked team of optimal survivors where even the best killers would be lucky to 2k, it happens, don't take it personal. And please don't start coming to the forums screaming for changes because of one bad experience.
Now onto the part where I rip you apart (kidding).
First , how did survivors do five generators and never even have to loop you? I mean what were you doing the whole time?
Second, if you were chasing survivors long enough to trigger bloodlust constantly, you need more practice chasing and probably more practice with deathslinger. I know everyone's enamored with him right now but really he's a mediocre killer, basically a worse version of the huntress, and he's SLOW, dear god is he slow, and if you aren't on point with your shots you're going to have a very bad time.
Third, if after 2.5k hours you are still hitting bloodlust continually on chases I don't know what else to see except you must be pretty bad at chasing. I bloodlust maybe once or twice a game in order to end an infinite at the end of a game or something.
If by your definition the game was this one-sided, you wouldn't have killer mains like myself who hit rank 1 every single months for years now. You would have no one at killer red ranks because the games would be too one-sided. Is the game tougher for killers? No doubt, mainly cause it's all on you, but to pretend the game is just brokenly bias cause you had a bad time against some optimal survivors is being a petulant child mostly.
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I keep saying I'd give up my Mori's in a heartbeat to give up keys, nice to see some other people are coming to the same realization.
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It is still possible to lose with an ebony Mori if Survivors are that much better than you.
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An example Moris are not OP. As survivor and killer, i had a lot of matches where no one got moried.
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do not expect to win against 4 better players, just complain about matchmaking instead
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I mean, sure, if the Killer sucks, Moris will not help anything. But if the Killer is somewhat competent (not even good), it can change a lot.
Like, you can put me in the best Racecar in whatever Racing Series, I will still not win, because I am not good at the respective Sport.
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I think the point they were making was a key can still completely change a game for an entire survivor team even if the survivor carrying the key completely sucks.
For example, let's say you have an SWF where one guy, you love him to death, but he's a potato. He can't loop, the best he can do is hold M1 and even then you're just praying he's not zoning out and missing skill checks. You give him the key and say "go wait in the corner and we'll tell you when to move". The game starts off well, couple generators done, but then it starts to go wrong, really wrong, suddenly the other 3 are on death hook, well in comes old potato holding a key to open the hatch and give the big middle finger to the killer on the way out.
See what I'm saying here? At least with a Mori the killer has to accomplish something to utilize it. A survivor just needs to wait for a certain amount of generators done, either through them or through their teammates, and the key is able to be used.
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I mean, when 4 Survivors escape with a Key, they got all Gens done. At this point I honestly dont care anymore if they take the Hatch or the Gate, when I got destroyed that hard, I will open the Gates for them.
But sure, the same can be said about a Key. Both, Moris and Key, need to be nerfed into the ground. But while a Key is a Lategame-Item, a Mori (except for the Cypress Mori), can turn a game into a Win for the Killer very early on. And because if this, in my opinion, Moris are stronger, because it might be entirely possible that the point where a Key can actually be used to enable multiple Survivors to escape can never be used, but a Mori can be used after the first Hook and remove 25% of the Survivor Team.
I mean, both need to go anyway. That is for sure.
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Okay bad example in my last post, let's say one person had already been sacrificed and now the killer has a really good three gen. Instead of actually having to pay for their own mistake, the remaining three survivors go "lol nope" and yeet right out through the hatch with the key. Maybe this is a better example and one I've certainly had happen to me before.
I'm with you on giving up both, I would give up Mori's in a minute to get rid of keys, or at least their ability to open the hatch prematurely, if they wanna keep them for the aura reading and all that stuff then go for it.
The other thing people seem to forget about Mori's though is they actively penalize the killer for using them. You need hooks for your devout score, killing a survivor grants more bloodpoints than a hook, but as it doesn't count as a hook action it will tank your devout score. Even if a killer only uses the Mori for someone on death hook they are hurting their own chances to pip. Survivors are not only not penalized for using keys, if anything they are rewarded with 5k BP for escaping and a boost to their survival emblem.
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Keys stronger than mori's? not really. You really need to lose gen pressure for people to use keys effectively. Considering all maps have a garantueed 3 gens that are close to each other, you can easily stall the game before they can even use a key. If you're a decent killer, you should even have at least 2 hooks before that, meaning 2 possible mori's. You can use a mori at the start of the match. To succesfully use a key, either 3 people need to have been killed and the hatch being closed, or you need to finish ALL gens before you can use it. Mori just requires 1 hook per person right now. If you cant even hook a single person before a key can be used, you simply were outmatched.
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"Okay bad example in my last post, let's say one person had already been sacrificed and now the killer has a really good three gen. Instead of actually having to pay for their own mistake, the remaining three survivors go "lol nope" and yeet right out through the hatch with the key. Maybe this is a better example and one I've certainly had happen to me before."
Dont worry, I have been there as well. Badham Preschool, 4 Gens around the School, one gets done, 3 Survivors left, all 3 escape via Hatch. They messed up and still got away. This is not fair at all, and therefore Keys need to go.
"I'm with you on giving up both, I would give up Mori's in a minute to get rid of keys, or at least their ability to open the hatch prematurely, if they wanna keep them for the aura reading and all that stuff then go for it."
I would totally love if the Keys would focus on Aura Reading. Maybe the Pink Key should be able to open the Hatch for one Survivor or after the Killer closed it. Like, I would increase the time the Key can be used and Rework some Add Ons (e.g. if the Pink Key keeps the ability to open the Hatch in a nerfed version, the Add Ons which let the Survivor keep the Key should be changed so that the Key is 100% gone afterwards). But I favor the idea of Keys being Aura Read for players (maybe nerfing the Blood Amber so that it uses up the Key really quickly) and Maps for the environment.
"The other thing people seem to forget about Mori's though is they actively penalize the killer for using them. You need hooks for your devout score, killing a survivor grants more bloodpoints than a hook, but as it doesn't count as a hook action it will tank your devout score. Even if a killer only uses the Mori for someone on death hook they are hurting their own chances to pip. Survivors are not only not penalized for using keys, if anything they are rewarded with 5k BP for escaping and a boost to their survival emblem."
And well, penalizing the Killer for the Mori... Whenever I used an Ebony (which is mostly the case if I see a Key in the Lobby, not to counter the Key, but to be like "If you want to play lame, I can play lame too"), I got a Blackpip, even when killing all 4 Survivors with the Mori. But yeah, it is rarely a PIp, but I also think that not that many people care for Pips since they will not get anything for ranking up. Some Killers really play for the 4K and nothing more, completely ignoring how they will be penalized in their Emblems by using Moris or camping.
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Well, lets compare here:
Keys are more rare in bloodwebs than Mori's. I seriously have at least 5 ebony mori's on each killer, at most 15 and havent even reached level 30 on most of them and I wasnt even hunting Mori's as I simply . I only had at most 12 keys TOTAL on a character that have leveled to multiple levels beyond 50 as it is my main to get all the perks, and I never use keys. I only have 10% of all perks on my main killer and have 15 ebony mori's on him, I'd literally need to use perks to search chests to get a better chance on a key. Considering that a key is pretty much to counter a killer who rushes kills and otherwise late game. Mori literally lasts all game.
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And there's 4 survivors and it only takes one key for ALL of them to escape, so them being 4x more rare is balanced as killers don't have any teammates to bring Moris do they smart guy? It really makes me sad how people today don't understand basic math or even how ratios work.
"A killer who rushes kills" WHAT THE ######### ELSE IS A KILLER SUPPOSED TO DO EXACTLY?!
Seriously, survivor mains talk about how "well we gen rush cause there is no other objective" and now I've got this mensa society remember (bonus points for those that get that) telling me that killers shouldn't rush kills? It's our ONLY objective, kill the survivors, herp a derp.
And the key is late game only if you're trying to push all four people out that tiny hole. And even then to get a full escape it's only two generators needed, that can be the first 1-2 minutes depending on certain maps with low mobility killers.
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So i read much "mimimi i cant win against better players" and "mimimi i need to bloodlust cause iam too bad to hit my m2". Literally everything you said explains why it is how it is, and that this is how it should be.
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Agreed. Both need massive reworks.
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Oh wow, 1 key for all survivors to escape when a single killer is a bad player? Thats like there exists something on the killer side that allows the killer to kill all survivors when they are bad players, perhaps an offering that also has a pink icon. /s
*so them being 4x more rare is balanced as killers don't have any teammates to bring Moris do they smart guy? It really makes me sad how people today don't understand basic math or even how ratios work.*
This is true, ONLY FOR A FULL TEAM. You dont have to communicate when and how you use a Mori, but survivors do. If survivors dont communicate, not all survivors will escape as the hatch only stays open for a limited time. So if you dont know where the hatch is and someone uses a key to bail out, you're ######### as the killer might as well have used a mori. A mori doesnt have any downside to using it other than getting less BP. Besides, there are ways to prevent them from using the key. You have Franklins, you can actually go physically to the hatch and close it once it opens, only letting 1 escape. A key only garantuees 1 escape once the hatch spawns. Because right now: 1: survivors need to find the hatch, 2: they need to all be in close vicinity to the hatch. 3: they need to be there when the killer isnt.
*WHAT THE [BAD WORD] ELSE IS A KILLER SUPPOSED TO DO EXACTLY?!*
Lets see what emblems there are:
- keep as many gens inactive as long as possible
- hook and sacrifice survivors, only get Iridescent from 9 seperate hooks, not 9 hookstates.
- Hit survivors and hook them.
- Chase survivors.
Using an Ebony Mori is literally against 2 out of 4 emblems there, maybe even 3 of them. So yeah, rushing kills with Ebony Mori is not what a killer is supposed to do. I'm fine with Ivory and Cypress Mori's as they are quite balanced.
As for survivors saying rushing gens is their only objective, no, they are fully wrong. Their objectives are:
- fixing gens
- escaping the game recieving as little injuries as possible
- healing and saving teammates, which they cant do unless the killer interacts with survivors
- distracting the killer without being caught
Survivors have 4 objectives, only 1 of them being available at the start of the game, killers having all 4 of them as soon as they can move. So yeah, survivors getting on a generator as soon as they find one, is obvious. If they spawn seperately, they will work on 4 gens. If they can finish all those gens without interference, thats on you, because your first objective is preventing gens to be rushed. If you see a survivor and tunnel him, and let the other 3 finish their gens, they arent genrushing, they are simply finishing a gen they spawned close to. Genrushing is actively fixing the gens as fast as possible, fixing the first generator you encounter because you have nothing else to do untill someone gets downed isnt actively fixing it as fast as possible. Killers have the harder task as they need to find a balance between putting pressure on generators and hooking survivors. You do want to kill your first survivor as fast as possible, sure, but rushing it and doing it as fast as possible arent the same thing. I can rush killing a survivor by offering a mori, hooking them and then stay close enough to quickly hit them in succesion and kill him by hand. I can also hook a survivor, chase another one and go for the first one after I hooked the second one if they didnt heal.
I mean, all in all, there are other problems in this game. Keys arent one of them. Keys are a problem due to general game design. Ebony Mori's are a problem overall.
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Yeah did you miss the multitude of posts where I and other have people have said we're good with getting rid of BOTH keys and Mori's right?
And no, it's not only true for a full team, YOU HAVE A CHAT BEFORE THE GAME STARTS EVEN IN SOLO PLAY. I mean Jesus Christ I know I don't play survivor but even I know that, so this idea that you can't communicate intentions with a key is just ridiculous.
And good lord if I have to listen to one more idiot survivor main tell me "just run Franklins". Let's get some ######### straight.
- Franklins doesn't make an item disappear, it just makes a survivor drop it.
- Finding an item is not particularly hard as the pickup command appears within a good radius of the dropped item.
- Nothing stops another survivor from picking up the item without the killer's knowledge, who now thinks the key has been neutralized.
Like what the hell am I supposed to patrol the key now?
Okay and now we come the most hilarious part, where you regurgitate emblem descriptions to me and pretend like it actually proves your point.
Keep in mind, when I said Killers job is to "kill" I mean in the game sense of downing and hooking survivors, not necessarily using a Mori.
So you outlined Gatekeeper, Devout, Malicious, and Chaser. So let's see.
Gatekeeper - If survivors are sacrificed, they can't do generators.
Devout - If I'm sacrificing survivors, I'm getting hooks, by definition.
Malicious - To get hooks, I need to hit and down survivors.
Devout - To get hits, I need to chase survivors.
Well I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say that me chasing, hitting, and hooking survivors all seems to accomplish my goals quite nicely, so my point still stands, kill survivors, accomplish objective.
But as I've said already at this point multiple times. I don't run Mori's, and would give them up in a heartbeat because as stupid as it sounds I play the game to rank up, I enjoy hitting Rank 1 and even though that means game after game of optimal survivors I enjoy the challenge. I also figure if I'm out there taking up some of those games that means the garbage matchmaking isn't making some poor rank 10 do it.
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Considering keys are pretty much the only way out in some games, not really. Like I said, the flaw in keys is due to the way the current game works. The game has been nerfed into the ground, making a key that, back in the day, was quite weak, extremely strong. Mori's on the other hand, have always been strong and due to other things being nerfed, are pretty much as strong as they were in the beginning.
Just because people can use that chat, doesnt mean everyone does. Besides, you should have faced enough survivors to know that at least 40% of red ranks are boosted as ######### and will be easy targets. Besides, if I know where the hatch is, I need to find other survivors and lead them there in the game itself, if I can find them. Often its simply faster and easier to just open the door unless a NOED is being used.
- Each hit lowers the use by 10%, a lot of survivors love using addons on it too, so odds are likely that they use the aura reading of the keys. So yeah, even if it doesnt break it the first time you hit, any survivor who uses addons will actually force the key to break. Besides, they might know the general area where they dropped it, but depending on where they lost it, they might never find it again unless they run Plunderers. So yeah, using franklins really helps unless they bring more than 1 key.
- Not really, only when crouching is it easier to find. The item hitbox is roughly the size of a toolbox, which is much smaller than a lot of people think. Especially when the item was lost on a loop. Personally, I would wish they would let people drop items under a dropped pallet if you hit them on a pallet, because then they'd be forced to have you break the pallet to retrieve their item, just as a trapper is required to break a pallet to retrieve a (badly placed) trap.
- this is really the only downside about Franklins. Personally, I'd add an aura reading to dropped items(including opened chests), because then a trapper or a hag can items. Instant flashlight? trapped.
Yeah, but killing survivors and rushing a 4k are different. Which was my entire point. I could get a 4k ASAP, without mori and lose a pip. I could also get a 4k by trying to get a 1K ASAP and then playing with my food a bit before I get bored of them. If they are obviously skilled to a point where killing even a single person might be a challenge, then rushing hookstates is obviously in my favor. But rushing kills literally is not the objective. You can theoretically down all survivors in the basement with 1 fell swoop with a leatherface, not a single gen done and only gain a few emblem points. A killer needs a balance between rushing kills and pressuring the map. Sometimes hitting or slugging a survivor and chasing someone else is simply better than still going after that survivor. If a single survivor is downed, 2 people cannot do generators for quite some time as the downed survivor needs to either recover fully or another survivor needs to heal him fully up. If 1 survivor is hooked, it takes a lot less time as they can be instantly unhooked. So obviously, rushing a kill isnt always the best course of action unless its literally the final hook.
As for Mori's, Ebony Mori could work out. Add in a token system based on hooks and gens all together, so you dont need to hook someone to kill them and if gens are being rushed, its easier to kill, you have a counter to genrush(which everyone should love). Either that, or give killers a specific amount of time they need to wait before they can mori after first hook. They dont fit the game as they are now, but that doesnt mean they will never fit.
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Keys stronger than mori's? not really. You really need to lose gen pressure for people to use keys effectively. Considering all maps have a garantueed 3 gens that are close to each other, you can easily stall the game before they can even use a key. If you're a decent killer, you should even have at least 2 hooks before that, meaning 2 possible mori's. You can use a mori at the start of the match. To succesfully use a key, either 3 people need to have been killed and the hatch being closed, or you need to finish ALL gens before you can use it. Mori just requires 1 hook per person right now. If you cant even hook a single person before a key can be used, you simply were outmatched.
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A number of things went wrong here, OP. First of all, you were not ending the chases quickly. That's your biggest problem. The fact that matchmaking is broken and you versed really good players is a fact, and nobody will argue with that. The map was not in your favor either. But, you cannot complain about survivors rushing the gens. This is what happens in the high ranks once people see that you brought a mori. No sane, good player will try to loop a killer with a mori. They will rush the gens like their lives depend on it (and they do).
Also, the debate of keys vs. moris that everyone is having is just dumb. You cannot possibly compare those two. Survivors need to do their objectives fully for a chance of getting the hatch. Killers only need 1 hook on each survivor when they bring a mori. That is only 33% of their objective per survivor.
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Yikes🤡
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As someone who plays more killer than Survivor (Rank 4 Killer vs Rank 8 survivor) Mori's are way more broken than Keys. That's not to say either element is balanced. They're not. You can make a 4v1 game into a 3v1 game the first two minutes into the game, leaving the remaining survivors with a CLEAR disadvantage. Yeah, you can still lose with a Mori if the survivors are that much better. But you can also lose with a key. In fact I have yet to get 1 key escape from that stupid key challenge.
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