Disable Decisive Strike during unsafe unhook period
We all know DS is an extremely useful perk, but it's also a perk that has obliterated an entire game-mechanic: Unsafe Unhooking.
The whole point of unsafe unhook is that survivors are punished for blatantly unhooking people when the killer is right nearby, instead of distracting or dealing with them or even simply saving themselves. Whether you face randoms or SWF teams, the vast majority of people use DS now as it's critically overpowered meta.
Obviously DS has its place, it's good to discourage tunneling en-masse from the killer, but please bring back a meaningful unsafe-unhooking mechanic by preventing DS from firing during the period where an unhook counts as unsafe if the hooked survivor gets hit again. DS hurts killer's score due to losing a survivor from your grasp hitting the pips, and we literally can do nothing anymore to stop people blatantly unhooking, sometimes even just doing it instantly once we've hooked, and we're forced to just take it because everyone has DS and often even the unhooking survivor has DS active and you're just unable to do anything at all now.
Comments
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That seems like a survivor nerf soo it won't happen
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Unfortunately I would place my bets on that too. Game is 100% survivor biased at this point.
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Nah cause I think if they're getting "unsafe hook"
Chances are you're a facecamper and the perk is doing what it's intended to do.. Counter campers and tunnelers.
So huge NO to that.
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Sorry but what?
For this scenario to happen the killer would have to make 2 hooks in the spam of 1 minute, first survivor gets unhook and rushes for the 2nd hook
You're assuming the killer is camping instead of seeing how unfair ds is?
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NO.
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Thanks for the celever and thoughtful counter argument
I'll take it with much conssideration, thank you survivor main
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Facecampers are getting pip loss overtime from doing it already, Murdle.
Survivors know that as long as they get a DS-survivor off the hook, that person is effectively untouchable now ,especially if exit gates are open and are within 10km of the hook.
You see a survivor blatantly running to the hook you just put up 10s ago because you're a smart killer who looks back when he's patrolling, and he sees you and doesn't care, unhooks anyway, turns out he's got DS too and you had him hooked a few moments back, he's here because he knows there's nothing you can do except slug 2 players and magically hope and pray to god all the gens don't get done and they don't get picked up in the meantime.
If exit gates are open, they have 60 seconds to crawl to safety and at any point you pick them up it's over anyway
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This and also make it an exhaustion perk, with bt and dead hard its too good
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So you want survivors to get ######### over by their trash teammates who farm them in front of a killer? I'm sorry, but this sounds like you want easy kills at the expense of others.
DS should deactivate as soon as the survivor starts doing gens/the killer downs someone else (this scenario only when there are more than 2 people left in the match). There you go, DS fixed.
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I'm asking them to reinforce an existing mechanic that has been nullified by an overly strong perk. No one's saying to deny DS if you get a safe unhook, but there is meant to be punishment for unsafe unhooking, it's why it affects survivor's pips if they unsafe unhook you. The problem is that an unsafe unhook now punishes the killer, and that makes no sense.
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Get a camping bubba and when someone rescues you off the hook don't get angry that you can't use DS
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If bubba camps you, he's losing his pips for being in proximity. If he chases you to the hook and you unhook anyway, there's already an unsafe unhook function it's just that DS fully overrides it and punishes the killer for punishing you.
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Facecamping Bubba doesn't care about pips or bp. In this game, facecamping is countered by perks. It's very simple really.
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So why is there an unsafe unhook mechanic then. Bubbas that camp you for so long they can't rank up aren't gonna be with you if you are anything past maybe rank 15 because they won't be ranking up.
DS shouldn't obliterate the entire unsafe unhook mechanic, no one's saying you can't have DS.
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Because unsafe unhook mechanics are supposed to discourage performing unsafe unhooks. The survivor on the hook doesn't really have much of a say in the matter.
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The survivors are meant to be a team, hence why they get rewarded for teamwork and lose pips when hurting their team (aka unsafe unhooks). It's not fair that the killer be punished for engaging in that process in the way they are supposed to. The killer has to let you run free for no good reason if he was going to get you otherwise afterwards.
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I'm literally unable to get a single game that isn't SWF, and they all know they can unsafe unhook, so they all punish with decisive strike, and every single person does it blatantly. I get a survivor when the gates are open, and so they unsafe unhook knowing there is literally no way I can catch them now. If I punish the unhooker, they have DS and the original survivor will unhook so you get Dual-DS punished.
Honest to god, time to admit you've literally disabled your own game mechanics and buck up and fix it.
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Punishing survivors that get farmed by their mates seems like a pretty good idea so far. LOL
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It's getting exploited by every SWF team out there, 99% of the matches are SWF now. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. You cannot get a game with 4 randoms past rank 13/14 anymore, it's SWF or no game period, and SWF know they all took DS and abuse it to deny you kills and to lower your pips.
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Once again, watching SWF teams intentionally unhook everyone right in front of me, they will literally follow me to the hook for instant unhooks, and you can't do anything because LITERALLY EVERYONE HAS A PERK THAT BREAKS THE GAME.
Like jesus christ devs, you overmonetize every inch of your game, and then because you get more money from 4 SWF than 1 killer, you've let the balance slide so heavily to one side it's unreal. How do you honestly justify asking us to pay £15 for the game, £70 for core DLC, a renewable season pass, and then hundreds of pounds on cosmetics via premium currency?! Honestly pathetic.
You've got your community wrapped around a perfect circle of "these things are totally broken, but we won't fix it because it's only a big issue with SWF. but everything is SWF now, and we pretend that's not the case and ignore any SWF issues."
This game will be remembered for excessive monetization and a devteam unwilling to even mildly balance it in the end
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If it's such an unsafe unhook that you're re-downing and picking up the unhooked survivor within the time, that means you're like... right there, so why not just grab the unhooking survivor or hit the unhooking survivor and then chase them? You get points for hooking all the survivors, too. If you're immediately going after the unhooked person (who literally cannot do anything about who unhooks them and when unless they're on comms, but even then it's never a given), then you're the reason DS exists in the first place.
I can agree it needs a nerf. Echoing an earlier post (and others I've seen), if the killer downs someone else first, then DS should deactivate, no matter how much time is left. Or if the survivor fully heals before the DS timer is up, it should deactivate. Things like this show the person isn't being tunneled and therefore doesn't need the anti-tunneling perk at that time.
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The problem isn't DS on a lone survivor, it's that 99% of the game is now SWF and they all run it, because knowing you all have DS is what makes it broken. Survivors unhook survivors, knowing they both have DS. If you hook player 2, player 1 returns to unhook knowing it no longer matters who you down, you get DS'd. EGC kills are literally impossible now because everyone can crawl to the escape gates inside 60 seconds, and we've got no means to punish anything anymore.
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I can only speak from my personal experience, but when I play with my friends, only two of us run it, and that's also dependent on what characters we're using. And maybe we just play different from everyone else, but not once have any of us said "I'll get the unhook, my DS is still up." The only time we ever coordinate saves in that way is in the EGC, but that's entirely dependent on who's fully healed and who has Borrowed Time.
Maybe another amendment would be that if a person unhooks someone, their DS also deactivates. Shows they're willingly going back and aren't necessarily being tunneled. That seems to be the most logical nerf, rather than to completely ######### over solos with ######### teammates.
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That makes you an exception, trust me. I main killer and all I see is 99% SWF teams all running DS so you're banned from touching anyone during EGC. There's no penalty for moving whilst DS is on, there's no penalty for DS survivors freeing DS survivors, what there is is a penalty for killers losing anyone on their shoulder. We take a loss to our rank every time someone uses DS and entire teams run it because it's such awfully strong meta and it'll never get touched because that would hurt the precious SWF
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How can you tell they're SWF? Like I'm just genuinely curious. I never know when people are SWF, but Idk if that's because I'm on console or what. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone against people or played with people and been like "okay, they're defo working together."
But I don't think some nerfs to DS are necessarily bad for SWF. It's meant to be anti-tunneling, so it should deactivate when the person's not being tunneled (fully healed, performing an unhook, doing an objective). If the survivor is actually being tunneled, they wouldn't stop to do any of those things because they would be getting chased. There are other perks to use if people are so keen on performing unsafe unhooks.
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SWF have two weaknesses: Altruism and that one twit who leaves his profile on public whilst the other 3 try to hide it. You just check friends lists, you see they're all friends and the ones set to private are just offline.
You can tell once you're in-game just by how they play. People immediately moving during barbecue and chilli's vision period because someone on hook clearly said you're going for them, people pre-emptively running away from a monitor-and-abuse shape with a terror radius of 8m because a random other survivor saw you in a different direction entirely. 2 people showing up to bodyblock and insta-flashlight-stun as soon as you're about to end chases, and then standing beside the hook waiting for you to hook so they can instantly unhook knowing it no longer matters because all of them have DS and you're about to lose your pip simply because they're SWF and took the most OP perk in the game.
The game is completely pro-SWF at this point and 99% of all my games are SWF now. Devs never touch anything that harms SWF. They won't touch Decisive Strike because that will upset the thousands of SWF groups that all run it together to punish the killer for just playing normally.
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So DS no longer counters tunnelling as long as you tunnel them fast enough?
I understand the desire for DS to be adjusted, but that philosophy seems... flawed, to say the least.
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We're literally banned from killing anyone during end-game-collapse due to everyone taking DS. You hook player 1 with DS, player 2 with DS unhooks in front of you, you hook player 2 knowing player 1 has DS so player 1 unhooks knowing you can't hook either one and if you slug they will reach the exit within 60 seconds guaranteed.
When SWF teams are meme'ing on you they'll do the same thing but earlier in the game to keep their designated chase-survivors in the play for as long as possible.
There is already a system in-place where survivors get pip loss for unsafe unhooking, there's a designated period of like 10 seconds for it. Instead one of the strongest perks and most common perks in the game completely renders this system obsolete. It's not just anti-tunneling, it literally makes killers lose rank if someone fires DS on our shoulder, and we end up in situations where we're banned from doing anything except just quitting or letting everyone crawl out scot-free.
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So make it an anti-tunnelling perk. Don't make it an "anti-tunnelling so long as the killer only sort of tunnels" perk. That's the opposite of a solution.
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You seem to be keeping your suggestions vague. How do you plan to make it an anti-tunneling perk whilst removing its flagrant abuse?
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I didn't say I had a solution, although I agree this would be a more constructive discussion if I did. I'm just explaining why this won't work as well as you might think at first glance.
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They need to come up with a way to render DS null and void if you're interacting with people who have DS. Freeing a DS survivor could cancel your own DS, and DS could be null and void during End-Game-Collaps (or at least substantially shorter time period).
The problem isn't the power of DS on its own, but when people stack it intentionally to abuse it so the killer has no option but to sit on his backside and get deranked for either being DS'd in fair and normal gameplay, or derank for doing nothing in fair and normal gameplay.
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Post edited by ChirpingCat on0 -
We need to avoid resorting to ad hominem attacks when dealing with other people; Address what people are trying to say without resorting to saying or implying things like, “You’re a survivor main, your opinion is invalid.”
Virtue-signalling aside, it would appear that Behaviour have intended for Decisive Strike to be used in unsafe situation where the killer is camping, especially at critical moments such as when the exit gates are powered. This is evidenced by the fact that there are very similar perks (Borrowed Time anyone?) that operate to similar effect.
Now, I don't see how you could nerf Decisive Strike on the grounds that 'it allows survivors to escape' without nerfing Borrowed Time also, but it seems like the OP's concern is the negative pip one suffers as a killer from a successful survivor DS. To that end, I agree it's not ideal, as the killer has no control over that situation to deserve such a penalty.
However, on balance, it is not the rescued survivor's fault if they are point-farmed with an unsafe rescue as the OP has described; So why penalise the survivor who got unhooked by limiting their options to try and survive?
Perhaps the original concern requires a simple solution: If the negative pip points for killers due to DS sucks; Let's just exempt the DS scenario from the 'losing a survivor' pip contribution. No harm, no foul.
I understand it might not be the nerf that many killers would like, but it's probably a change that everyone can get behind and is therefore likely to be implemented.
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At first: repeating "99%" every second post doesn't make it more real, SWF is not that common. Can't say how many times I got accused of being SWF when I Mostly play solo. And the insta unhook philosophy is definitely more a solo thing than an SWF thing, because SWF organize themselves who is near the hook and can go for it, rather than wasting the time standing around the hook being the first one to snatch the points. Btw I think also when streamers claim to go against SWF, they are mostly wrong or the clue they see is not really a clear argument for that. Just from what I see on survivor side happening in solo queues. You don't need SWF for good coordination. Not even people from the same country while looking at the profiles is that much of a hint, this is simply a higher chance due to ping and server selection reasons.
To your perk: when downing the unhooked survivor, the emblem punishment for unsafe unhooks is applied. DS doesn't counter that. If that is your problem, you should be complaining about BT.
And it is not that hard to punish such a behaviour effectively. Hit the unhooker before the unhook, after the unhook, then go for the tunnel. You don't need to pick him up to eat the DS. You got your hook exchange and should say thank you to the unsafe unhooker for the insta chase, wasting no time on searching and instead pressuring 2 survivors, pulling at least a third one off gens who needs to go for the heal/unhook. That's pretty effective. And the unsafe unhooker gets the emblem punishment as well as the 5 second down.
The change you suggest is simply punishing the tunneled survivor who did not anything wrong and promotes to let the stupid behaviour get away with it.
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In my opinion the only change to DS that needs to be made is that only the most recent unhooked survivor gets DS and is disabled as soon as another survivor gets rescued.
MAYBE it should also be disabled when you get fully healed or start to work on a gen but i guess that seems more unlikely and a bit too confusing, so the change i mentioned above would be already perfectly fine.
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