the way RIFT works loses devs money
You should be able to get to max level by completing all the Quests/Challenges, and if you can't do some of them because they may be too hard, you should be able to get to max level by grinding XP just for playing games.
Here you do all the quests, then you gotta grind 10+ more levels at least (which can be 90+ games?). I didn't buy the pass for this exact reason. And my guess I'm not the only one who didn't buy because of this, so the DBD devs lost some money because of this.
just a thought
EDIT: I did all the challenges, and ended up on Tier 61 / 70 (this means i gotta grind 70~ games in 7 hours)
EDIT 2: proof
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I have so far been maxed out on every single tier of both rifts BEFORE finishing all the challenges. I have no clue how someone could finish all of the challenges are somehow still need tons of rifts.
Also what is up with what you just said? You just said you should be able to grind them out....you can? Then you complain about how long it would take? huh?
Are you seriously complaining when you haven't even done the challenges?
How does that lose anyone money lol.
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ermm you gotta explain this a bit better, you did not buy the pass because you can grind for it?
And why do you care if the devs "lose money" or not....
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I did all the challenges, and ended up on Tier 61 / 70
thats like 70~ games i have to play and only 7 ours remain.
And as a product seller, would you rather make customers grind their ass off for a pixel reward? Or give them that pixel reward easier and get more customers/money?
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I don't buy the rift until I complete it. That way I know I'm getting max value
Doesn't really matter to me how long it takes because I can wait (unlike some people)
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Bear in mind that if you buy the pass and finish the Rift, they don't really get any money because you get all your cells back. They make money off people who buy the pass and don't finish it. So while it may seem like losing customers due to that is a bad thing, I suspect they actually make more money by having the Rift as grindy as it is than they would by making it much easier to complete.
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So you get all your digital/pixels back, nice. But guess what, they got 10 euros (real money) for your digital goods that you can recycle.
They DID get money. And making more people like you think "I get my money back" is a good way to sell a product.
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I really don't get how thats possible. I've been annoyed to waste rift fragments in every single tier so far because I was already maxed out.
Somehow should bother to add it up and count all the challenges that can be completed in a single match as well as the ones that can be completed in 2-3 matches. Factor in the likely rift XP the matches themselves would give and see if its possible to not be done. by the time you finish all the tiers.
I am mostly getting every challenge done as fast as possible with few exceptions. I alone counting the 10 bonus at the end of the tiers have had over 100 rift fragments not count for me because I was already maxed out. All 8 of the 10 bonuses at the end with 3-5 challenges worth of fragments in every tier too.
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@ASurvkillivorer added proof
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believe it or not there are so many people willing to spend money on useless pixels (every week a crying console gamer thread pops up, where they ask for the deathgarden mask or legacy...), and isn't the entire point of making a super grindy season pass forcing casual gamers to pay for pixels?
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Yes, but (i assume) a big part of the casual gamers might pay only if they get the full level 70/70 done. That's the part where devs are losing money.
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A soultion could've been that the ones who paid for the pass, get x2 XP or something
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Perhaps premium get some rift xp bonus? I don't get how your still not done. We're you getting like every challenge in 1 try? Most of the time I was getting them done fast as well. Idk wouldn't surprise me if it was bugged
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actually no, well yes, but ALSO they make money off people who buy it for 1000 auric cells, then get their auric cells back, then spend those auric cells on some cosmetics and invest another 10 bucks in a 1000 auric cells later for the new rift.
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most of them i did in 1 try, but the 4th level of the tome took a bit longer.
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yeah I get your point. you are kinda underestimating the importance of pixels for casual gamers, but yeah, maybe adding a double exp would boost the early season pass buys, and in the case somebody couldn't finish it, he may drop more money on it.
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I don't think they lose money on it. I know at least two people that have bought the premium pass AND tiers to complete the Rift (just because). 500 Auric Cells (worth 5 Tiers in the Rift) cost as much as some of the cheaper DBD Chapter DLCs.
Also, once you bought the premium pass, reached tier 70 and made your auric cells back, now you got some auric cells sitting there, ready to be spent on cosmetics or a DLC. I'm pretty sure people are going to spend some of those cells for that, because that's also what I did.
And also, even if you never buy anything else with those auric cells (the ones you bought to get the premium pass), you still had to buy them. Think about it.
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My point still stands.
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That's why I said they don't "really" make any money off it. Yes, they get the $10 you spent on the auric cells, but they also lose the $10 that you would have spent on whatever you end up spending the return cells on. Say you bought the Rift Pass, finished the Rift and then spent the 1000 extra cells on two DLC characters. Yes, they just got $10 from Rift Pass sales, but they also lost $10 in DLC sales. That's still not a profitable business model.
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There are way more people out there, who do not care for the grind and just straight up buy the rift than there are people who actually grind it through. Not to mention, you get your AC back, and maybe you want to spend those on a skin. The next rift comes up, and there you are, spending 10 new dollars for it. I am fairly certain that people who grind out the rift, get the AC, and save them up until the next one are a minority. Hell, I've had tens of games at the very start of the latest one where people already had all the cosmetics.
The grind in this one was okay, could use a bit of tweaking and just a slight reduction in grind, but otherwise it is perfect for their business model.
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@Fibijean "Yes, they get the $10 you spent on the auric cells, but they also lose the $10 that you would have spent on whatever you end up spending the return cells on."
^This.
A flat basic math: the devs just sold the customer 2000 auric cells for 10$. The customer got 2k auric cells, the devs got 10$.
Not succeeding in making the customer buy, gets the devs 0$.
Its like you want to finish the rift to get 50% off 2000 auric cells, you play/grind for a sale.
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Excuse you. Losing money. Yes. Or better put, could've made more money. I honestly think they could make more money.
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You shouldn't have waited until the last minute to worry about your rift level, you had plenty of time.
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because I WANT to spend my OWN money on DBD. But I want to feel like it was worth spending it. Giving the devs feedback on how to make more money, may very well be a win-win situation, for both the seller and the customer. Think for a second, then reply if you must.
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i don't play everyday, but i was willing to finish the rift for the rewards. Didn't think i wouln't get max level by completing all the challenges
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Fibijean, don't forget all the cosmetics that would've costed you probably 10,000 auric cells to buy all of them individually — now costed you 1,000. 😁
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And if they sold everyone 2K auric cells for $10, they would lose a lot of money they might otherwise have made. You're assuming that people who don't buy the Rift because they don't expect to finish it won't buy anything else (cosmetics, DLC, etc.) either, which is unlikely to be true. At the end of the day, neither of us actually knows how much money they make or don't make, but I'm confident BHVR's accountants are a lot better informed and probably better trained than a couple of players on the forum.
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That's true as well, actually. Good point! Making it too easy to get some of those cosmetics at 'Rift value' costs them money further down the track that people might spend on those outfits once they arrive in the Store.
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This thread lowkey makes me wish I payed more attention in Economics.
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Its hard to argue with someone who doesn't understand that this rift was a glorified 50% sale off 2000 auric cells.
Here is an example:
I sell chickens for 1000$/each. I also sell cows for 50$/each
But if you buy both the chicken and the cow ill give them to you at the special price of 60$.
Its their shop, they price something in a way so that they may make something else seem much more appealing.
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I understand that perfectly well, I'm saying there's more to this financially than you seem to think, and it's rather presumptuous for any of us to think we understand BHVR's accounts better than they do.
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This is why the rift is what it is.
Take most items and why they price something at $19.99. This is due to it tricking the brain and seeming cheaper to the mind than $20.00.
No if someone earns 800 cells back and misses out on 3 pieces rhey are more likely to buy it again. The reasoning is that they will see the value of what they paid versus what they got.
Bear in mind the skins you get for the 1k cells far surpasses what they would have cost within the store itself.
So what you look at is needs and value. Needs come in the form of skins. Anyone who purchases the skins constitutes the need. Then we look at value. The skins in the rift would normally costs over 7k cells on thebstire so the value is a lot higher in the rift.
So for a lower price in cells you will get the next rift which means the value is even greater. Then once these skins go onto the store in a few months someone may well spend another $10 on cells alto complete the skin sets as its not just 3 prices of skins but completions of sets. It again makes the value greater for the price.
If they allowed each player to complete the rift then the above wouldn't happen and the rift makes no money as its free for ever and everyone has these complete sets.
It's better to entice people to keep spending and making it less than full price as it keeps the value of it high and creates a constant revenue stream.
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"If they allowed each player to complete the rift then the above wouldn't happen and the rift makes no money as its free for ever and everyone has these complete sets."
Finally, a good argument. But this can be reached by anyone who starts playing from rift day 1 (i started playing from half), so.. that's just an error in logic from their side.
My response is the following, I would rather want to hit max level on the tome, then pay 1000 and get 500 auric cells back along with the skins (i would really like to get that lantern and feng ming mask for example), rather than reaching 61/70, get 850 auric cells, and the content up to that point.
I personally want to pay for the exclusives, not the auric cells. And the other players that are in the same boat with me will most likely not pay for the 61/70 rewards.
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What a few of us asked for was the rift to reward a portion of the auric cells instead of the full amount so you pay less for the pass but gain all the rewards.
I guess the devs don't want this as players have all the skins and are less likely to buy the one a they need using the store. By doing this players will always have some left over cells which again tricks the mind as some will want to use up the currency they have.
It's why I don't bother with passes as rhey aren't designed to be completed by the majority but only those who have endless time to put into it. It's a carrot and stick scenario and some like yourself dont see the value of what you get ao you fall into the what you dont get camp.
I'd say most fall into the I got more I'll keep spending though or a lot more posts would appear. It's the nature of these passes. If it's deemed not worth it by yourself by trying it out id say you are in the minority like myself and not the consumer they aim for.
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First, i'm just as frustrated with the grind as anyone else.
Now with that said, I don't think they're actually losing money in the way described by the OP. Here's why:
If you complete the rift and then buy the pass, you get all your money back in the form of auric cells. Then when you complete the next rift, you use those same cells from last time to buy a new pass for free. So on and so forth.
By adding in the grind (ugh) people are less likely to fully complete each rift, at least not without buying boosts. If they buy the boost: money. If they don't, then they don't get all of their cells refunded and will eventually need to buy more to keep buying passes: aka more money.
So yeah, I'm sure the current system is providing some nice income. The only alternative I can see is to make it less grindy, but not refund ALL of the cells either.
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"and some like yourself dont see the value of what you get"
True, I personally don't see any value at all on the content under level 65/70(ish)
I see 90% garbage, although I would've bought it for the few cosmetics at the end.
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Has it never occurred to y'all that you can actually spend the 1000 auric cells from completing one rift pass on the next rift pass? This is actually what a significant number of people do.
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The rift is trash because you basically pay to devote your life to thia game. It is so freaking grindy already. The challenges suck, and honestly the rewards are not thay good either.
They need to make the rift more friendly to people who want to do other things besides play this game all day if they want to make more money.
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They would rather you run out of time and pay for it. Because it's a ######### battlepass.
Also, I have like 8 challenges left to do and an at 70. Did you just throw every match for the challenges?
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Except they used the excuse "giving free items" as why the rift was a good thing. They could have literally given them for free, and not charged you to unlock them. So, I'd say that they never planned on selling most of those, and found a way to make even a few dollars off of random cosmetics that we could have been "given", as per the defense of the rift as a "free item producer".
I mean how hard was it to reshade a hag outfit blue realistically.
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I spent $10 for cells to get in on the first Rift pass.
I spent the cells I made back to buy the 2nd Rift pass.
I'm going to spend the cells I got from that on the 3rd Rift pass. It's a self-sustaining subscription once you're aboard.
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Exactly! If they made it too easy, more people would be able to do this which amounts to a one-time $10 purchase from most players.
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I had my tiers maxed out for both seasons without completely the archive challenges. I’m just a grinder lol
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This is exactly how most season passes work. As long as you play, you will unlock the currency to continue to play for free. They aren't re-inventing the wheel here, just going along with a proven model.
The only difference between this and Modern Warfare (outside of genre) is you don't have to wait 10 minutes to find a match on console. If they don't address this, NO ONE will be buying a Rift Pass as you won't be able to complete it, even if you wanted to.
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They did give some things away for free - that's the point of the free track. And yes, they could have given us more stuff for free, but I don't consider it a problem that they didn't. No artist should be obliged to just give their work away, because no matter how easy it was to make, it still took some degree of time and effort, and that's worth something.
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I didn't read this entire thread, but I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the number of people who don't finish the rift and end up purchasing the final tiers.
This is where the psychologically predatory nature of the battlepass system comes into play. Preying on people vulnerable to this kind of psychological manipulation.
This is also why the system hasn't and won't be changing in any meaningful way.
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i didnt buy it, because i earned 1k auric cells in the last one and got it for free ^^
also i managed to finish it relatively easily - and i was unable to play DbD for two weeks...
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You are thinking as money coming directly. But when the rift rewards with auric cells to another rift, they are sticking ppl to the game, increasing and maintening their player base. Other games, as Fortnite, do the same thing with the pass. There is a market and wise vision behind that. More players mean less queue and more ppl buying things. Maybe not the one that only keeps the rift pass forever, bur for others that are playing with him. This is a strategic financial move that is done in other games, and the rewards for the devs are somehow great and indirect to the rift, as long as this is a market smart strategy used by other games as well. Dont stick to a narrow vision, keep it wide. The rift is a great improvement to the game and to its profits in a lot of ways, not only rift passes.
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