http://dbd.game/killswitch
Toolbox sabotage charges
Does anyone know how many charges EXACTLY it takes to sabotage a hook with a toolbox?
I did some tests here are the results:
-Commodious Toolbox w/ Scraps (40 charges) = 6 hooks + less than half a 7th hook
-Toolbox w/ Scraps (28 charges) = 3 hooks + nearly a 4th hook
-Worn Out Tools (16 charges) = 2 hooks + less than half a 3rd hook
Something isn't adding up here. I was able to do 3 more hooks with 12 more charges. No matter what number I pick the numbers don't work out the same for each toolbox. If I go with 5 charges, well I should have been able to do 8, 5, and 3 respectively. If we assume the add-ons don't give extra charges for sabo then it would have been 6, 4, and 3. If I go with 6, then I would have been able to do 6, 4, and 2. If I go with 7, then I would only be able to do 5, 4 (exactly), and 2.
Can a dev chime in on this? @Janick @Almo It seems like the number of charges for sabo is inconsistent, unless each toolbox uses charges at different rates when sabotaging, but that doesn't make sense either. Speeds could be different but AFAIK speed and charges are separate things. Having a faster speed just means you apply charges at a faster rate.
PS. It is possible the second figure is wrong, since I ran up to a hook but then got found by the killer at the same moment. I honestly can't remember if I started the sabo action or not, if I did there's a chance I could have done 4 hooks with some left over which means it would take 6 charges, but I'm fairly positive that I didn't do the action at all.
Best Answer
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Use this as your base. Default charges/s is 2. Hooks have 6 charges. Worn out tools should be 3 seconds as it has no bonus for sabotage speed.
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Answers
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please read this part of the post before reading the rest below
I made an entire post about a similar question awhile back, the only difference is that the question asked for each toolboxes sabo times for one hook each, yours is asking for the charge times overall. Obviously this isn't what you want since you're asking for the charges used for each hook you sabo'ed, NOT the time it takes for each hook to be sabo'ed. But here's the issue with that, there isn't a chart for sabo c/s like there's for repair c/s (c/s = charges per second).
What does this mean? It means there isn't any documented information for how many charges each hooks takes, which means unless a DEV "chimes in" with the answer than you and I would have to factor in a lot of math to figure it out, and even then we'd probably be off unless we go frame by frame in-game to determine how many charges are lost per hook you sabo.
We also don't know if the c/s for saboing a hook is the same for each toolboxes c/s for repair speeds, clearly they're not since Alex's toolbox has a 1.1 c/s speed for repairing, and that toolbox is used for saboing... So an accurate c/s for saboing would require a lot of meticulous research in-game and through the files, something both of us don't really have the patience or time for.
Here's the link to the toolbox section in the DBD wiki to prove there's no c/s for saboing
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Toolboxes
here's the original post asking for each toolboxes sabo times (if you're interested)
Keep in mind that sabotaging a hook takes 2.5 seconds for both Saboteur and a Toolbox (without factoring the speed boost). Knowing this I can just convert the percentages of the base 2.5 seconds, subtract from that base time, and that's your answer. However, take what I say with a grain, just in-case its wrong.
- [Worn-Out Tools] (No speed increase, so the time remains at 2.5 seconds for one hook ea)
- [Regular Toolbox] (Slightly increases Sabotage Speed. Base-kit time (2.5 seconds) minus the +10% that the speed increase gives (10% of 1.5 seconds is 0.25 seconds) will give you a time-frame of 2.25 seconds for one hook ea)
- [Mechanic's Toolbox] (Slightly decreases Sabotage speed. Base-kit time (2.5 seconds) plus the -10% that the speed decrease gives (10% of 2.5 seconds is 0.25 seconds) will give you a time-frame of 2.75 seconds for one hook ea)
- [Commodious Toolbox] (No speed increase, so the time remains at 2.5 seconds for one hook ea)
- [Engineers Toolbox] (Moderately decreases Sabotage speed. Base-kit time (2.5 seconds) plus the -25% that the speed decrease gives (25% of 2.5 seconds is 0.6 seconds) will give you a time-frame of 3.1 seconds for one hook ea)
- [Alex's Toolbox] (Considerably increases Sabotage speed. Base-kit time (2.5 seconds) minus the +50% that the speed increase gives (50% of 2.5 seconds is 1.25 seconds) will give you a time-frame of 1.25 seconds for one hook ea)
These should be the time-frames for each toolbox if my math is correct. I didn't factor in the c/s (charge per second consumption rate) because you just asked for how long it would take to sabotage one hook (each). I could factor that in to find how long a toolbox would list from purely sabotaging, but the DBD Wiki on toolboxes doesn't give a c/s for this, so it could be the same c/s or a completely different one from the repair c/s.
Also, I didn't use add-ons because you didn't ask, so this should be what you're looking for.
THE SOURCES I USED
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Toolboxes
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Hooks
The original post that asked this question before
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138865/sabo
conclusion?
With all that said in the first section of this comment... It's hard for me to really give you an answer, let alone anyone else that isn't a dev. I and many others would have to research a lot of information to just get you the answer from the ground up, that would take a lot of time... And I mean A LOT of time.
That doesn't mean you should give up, it just means none of us (as far as I know) can't answer this question, at least not a regular forum member anyways.
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I did a post and a bug report on this one with no reaction.
@Almo regarding my test cases, your calculation does not work. Why is there a difference between a yellow toolbox with wire spool and a commodius, when they have the same amount of charges? (And isn't the base time 2.5 seconds like on the perk?)
@FireHazard This is not how speed bonus works. You say 50% speed bonus results in half the time. Actually a 100% speed bonus would result in half the time. It is like base would be 1 charge per second for progress, and a 50% speed bonus makes 1.5 charges per second. So 15 charges are consumed in 10 seconds.
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The thing is the numbers don't work out. Yellow Toolbox with Scraps is 28 charges, but I was only able to sabo 3 hooks. If a hook requires 6 charges I should have been able to do 4.
Also the sabo time is 2.5 seconds when using a toolbox without speed bonuses OR Saboteur.
Something isn't working right here. You guys may want to look in this because it may be a bug.
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Cool thanks. I'm on Xbox BTW if that matters.
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I just checked Worn Out Tools, Toolbox, and Commodious Toolbox. I get 3 sec for WOT, 2.78 for T, and 3.05 for CT. These are all within a frame what I expect. This is using our debug tool that measures and outputs the interaction time.
There is, however, a 0.2 second snap-to-the-spot time before the sabo starts.
It looks like everything is working properly.
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Okay but what about charges? Because if a hook sabo takes 6 charges I should be able to do 4 when using Toolbox with Scraps, yet I was only able to do 3. Is it because of that 0.2s startup? Are charges being used despite not being applied to the sabo?
Also is there a reason each toolbox applies charges at different rates? Why not make it a flat 3s for all toolboxes (especially when they are all so close)?
I'm just a little confused is all. I wouldn't have expected inconsistencies like this.
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I just did Toolbox with Scraps, and saboed 4 hooks. I'm not sure what's going on at your end.
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I will upload videos later today, let's see if something changed since PTB, I just noticed some cases are still the same after PTB in live.
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I'll try it again. Maybe I miscounted. I'll post back here afterwards.
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I don't understand what you mean, either because i'm bad at math or what you said doesn't make sense to me. I had to get that answer without prior knowledge to the c/s for saboing, which still isn't available as of my comment being posted.
Also I was adding and subtracting time for 1 hook being sabo'ed each, unless that's what you're referring to.
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You said to Alex' toolbox for example "Base-kit time (2.5 seconds) minus the +50% that the speed increase gives (50% of 2.5 seconds is 1.25 seconds) will give you a time-frame of 1.25 seconds for one hook ea)"
50% speed increase doesn't give you 1.25 less time needed. With that calculation a 100% speed boost would reduce the time needed to 0 seconds. But it is calculated as follow: base speed is for example 1 charge per second (1c/s). With 50% speed bonus, it is 1.5c/s or with 100% speed would be 2c/s.
Whatever charges are consumed (if Almo is correct with 2c/s base, but that doesnt matter). Lets say it is 2 charges per second and you need 5 charges to finish a sabo action, to fit the 2.5 sec sabo basetime. Then a 50% speed bonus would make it 3c/sec, meaning you need 1,66 sec to consume the 5 charges.
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How do you know if the c/s is 1 charge per second? The repair speed graph disproves that each toolbox has it's own for of c/s, at least for the repair speeds anyways. Why wouldn't the hypothetical sabo speed graph also do the same? I'll ignore that though since we have no idea if it takes 1 charge per speed or more, so we'll just pretend it does for now.
Also, I don't understand what you're referring to either, the post above was an answer for sabotage time-frames, it doesn't really correspond to charge's per second at all, it was just going off of base sabo speed (which is the default sabo time) and any increase/decreases that the other toolboxes add or take away. Due to the issue above with what the charge consumption speed is, the answer I gave was just to answer time-frames and that's all.
One more thing, I still don't understand how -50% to the base 2.5 seconds is not 1.25 seconds, I do understand the 100% comparison, but I don't understand why the 50% wouldn't equate to 1.25 seconds, what else would it equate to unless the math here is off.
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I don't know about sabo charges, that was just a sample. You simply said, when it takes 2.5 seconds, a 50% speed bonus makes it to 1.25 seconds. And that is wrong, it makes it 1.666 seconds. The above is a sample to show how speed bonus is caclulated.
Your approach said, when base is 1c/1s, then a 50% boost makes it 1c/0.5s but it is 1.5c/1s, meaning a 100% speed bonus makes it take half the time, not zero time
EDIT the one thing you might miss is that without any modifications you operate at 100%, meaning a 50% bonus makes it 150%
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I'll take your word for it, I can somewhat see what you mean if you apply the 50% to the charges per second and not the base sabo speed, but it's hard to really know the actual estimate without the right numbers.
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There was enough testing on other aspects of the game to confirm this approach. Especially when you can get near the 100% you will notice that the values with your approach get more unprecise and that the other approach fits. With sabo you will notice with both speed addons and Leader active, makes a total of 110% :) Other example was with efficiency, that was stackable with old green medkits, Streetwise, Botany Knowledge and Selfcare (>90% but definitely not giving 10 healings from the green medkit)
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@Almo The charge addons definitely changed after the PTB, that seems to be the same now. But an Alex toolbox can't sabo 4 hooks. Regarding your 6 charge assumption, it should be able to do that with 24 charges. It finishes the 4th hook just to 90-95%
Do you want to test yourself or have a video uploaded here? How big may the video be? I have one of 300MB ^_^'
(EDIT: Although the toolbox with wire spool and the commodius (32 charges) just had very few left, making it more like 6,3 charges needed for a sabo, which would fit better to the missing 4th hook for the Alex toolbox)
Post edited by Deadeye on0 -
@Almo I tested with Toolbox + Scraps, I was able to sabo 4 hooks with some left over. I guess I either miscounted or maybe did part of a sabo and didn't finish.
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I wasn't denying the approach, I was just saying that the c/s isn't public knowledge. Unless you or I went in-game to meticulously calculate this, than it's not really written anywhere as a confirmed set of information.
I can definitely see what you mean with the 100% example you used on the 2.5 sabo time-frame, but the actual c/s that each toolbox uses is not really known, since the repair graph on the DBD Wiki shows that not every toolbox follows the same c/s format.
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@Almo Can you pls check the Alex toolbox? With hooks needing 6 charges, the Alex toolbox should be able to sabo 4 hooks exactly. But the 4th hook is only finished to about 90%. Is that expected?
From all tests, I would say hooks need more like 6.3 charges. Which seems a bit strange, because you cannot really calculate what you need for how many hooks unless you tested it properly and note down everything
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I just verified in the editor that...
Alex's Toolbox...
Does...
3 hooks. Bug entered, we'll look at it, and make sure all of the boxes work properly. :) What was throwing me off was that Alex's is the only one with an exact amount of hooks. But your example with the addon is probably related.
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Before the toolbox update there was a bug with charge add-ons not actually giving charges (for repair, not sure about sabo). It's since been fixed (I forget if it was before the toolbox changes or after), but it could be related maybe?
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