Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
So what about Pop and Exit Gates?
So reading through these patch notes, I am liking a lot of the changes. As someone who mostly plays killer I am happy they are taking a look at fixing some of those over safe loops. I am also happy that they decided to not increase gen speeds, but make it slightly less rewarding for multiple survivors, but not enough that they still wont work on the same gen. Lastly, I am happy they are looking into map layout and tile generation.
But to the title of this thread, Why didn't you mention anything about Pop as a changed perk and only survivor perks. Pop basically became king once you adjusted ruin, and can be quite annoying for survivors. With your proposed changes you basically in-directly gave it a huge buff, as it's now even more unlikely to finish a gen with multiple people before a killer could get to it. Why not reduce it to 20% (would prefer 15% but would guess that to be unlikely) or shorten its time from 40/50/60 to 20/25/30.
Aslo, in all of your map talk you never once mentioned the horrible gate spawns. I find it ridiculous as killer that I can see two gates at once on so many maps. Like how is it even logical that the gates would be allowed to spawn on the same wall? End Game Collapse already hugely favors my side anyhow, to make it so the gates are within viewing distance of each other means I won without doing anything.
Comments
-
So a few things:
About endgame collapse, the survivor has had so many chances to escape it absolutely should be difficult to escape at that point. Think, they could've done the gens, used their overwhelming amount of seconds chance perks, use a key or even just escape through hatch normally. In this situation I think it is completely fair for the killer to have an advantage.
As for pop, it really isn't a problem, if anything it's healthy for the game as it rewards the killer for doing his job. You have to consider even with these map changes gens will still fly as they haven't done anything about solo gens, so killers still need a good perk. The only real annoying thing about pop IMO is that bad teammates just give free pops. You should try having longer, safer chases if you know the killer has pop.
8 -
@Leachy_Jr you do realize your first argument is, The survivors did their job and got to the end game, but then still have no hope of escaping because the game decided to put the only two ways to exit the game in a position the killer can see both? That is balance, that is clearly giving one side a HUGE upper hand.
Throwing the argument of second chance perks or using a key (which they may not have) is being biased. Killers often run multiple slow down perks, which in my eyes are the equivalent of survivors second chance perks. They also have the of using mori's. Which brings us to End Game Collapse, which can easily favor a killer more so than a survivor. So putting exit gates in a position where a killer doesn't even have to patrol is not balance, it clearly is unbalanced and favors one side more.
Saying a survivor shouldn't be able to run a loop for 2 minutes because its "god" loop and then turning around and saying exit gates are perfectly balanced is being biased.
6 -
The killer can only go after one person at a time. EGC 4 team can literally bully a killer.
If theres only one person left alive his argument still applies they should have escaped earlier or helped there team survive better.
If there two, one runs a 20 second chase while the other hits the gate.
If theres 3 one can hit each gate while a 3rd runs a chase or even gets caught on purpose and then BT save and they all get out.
Idk if the gates are literally overlapping the gates can still be easily opened he cant guard more then one thing at once.
If the gates are bloodwarden trapper body blocked hacked so they cant open. You have 4 chest chances for a key and still can win that way. Its unreal how many chances you have
0 -
I think the problem is that everyone assumes the endgame collapse is supposed to be a killer tool. The developers have made it clear it is not, it is there simply to bring the match to an end. With that said, I agree that the collapse heavily favors the killer in many many ways. And there are some situations where for example three people are together and they escape through the hatch with the key and then you're left behind? And maybe you're the one who did all of the gens or saved a lot of people or kept killer busy for an extended period of time? So now you can't escape because the killer can easily Patrol the two exit gates.
2 -
But how exactly does the EGC favors killers? It only starts AFTER the gates are opened... just leave! If EGC started once generators are powered I would agree, but once you open the gates you won.. no need to stay back. If someone is injured or hooked just 99 the gates.. most survivors already do that.
0 -
I don't think Pop is overpowered in any way to be honest. It's a good stalling perk for killers to combat the fast gens, but not overpowered. However, the devs have said that they want to nerf the synergy of slow down perks in the future, so that stacking multiple slow down perks becomes less effective.
0 -
Or survivors could just spread out and do gens separately which is by far faster and more efficient currently and after the next update. We don't need to start nerfing perks that also don't effect the early game which the repair changes are trying to address.
Exit gates could maybe have a larger minimum distance, but they should never just spawn across the map from each other. All it will do is force all killers to bring Whispers to guarantee they stay at the correct door. The doors should be spaced in a way where the killer still has to patrol, but the survivor should only escape if they play smart.
At that point in the match the killer has earned your sacrfice by playing well, killing 3 other teammates, and finding the hatch before you could. Its up to how smart you play on whether or not you escape, it should never be easy.
0 -
In a last one standing I mean. The killer gets to see the lit up icon for the exit gates in perpetuity - making it super easy to go back and forth, they get to see any investment in an exit gate and all they have to do is guard the exit gate with some progress made and that's it. At that point in the match, it's too late for the Survivor to find the other exit gate and start progressing it. And because the killer gets full credit for the kill, he has no incentive to seek out the Survivor. Not to mention the spawn. I'm not going to get into the merits of who deserves to win and what should have been done before the match got to that point, the reality is matches do get to that point.
0 -
In that situation I agree... but I think then it's the merit of the killer for killing everyone else... he kinda earned it..
One thing I'll give you is the gate spawns.. I do think there should be a minimum distance between them.
0 -
-> ruin deleted
--> pop becomes main slow down perk
---> wants pop deleted
2 -
This sounds like another survivor main pretending to be a killer main to ask for killer nerfs.
Pop is fine. It has an activation requirement of hooking a survivor to get an extra progress reduction when kicking. I a lot of cases it barely even resets the progress that was made on the gen during the time the killer was chasing and hooking someone.
Exit gates spawns are fine. The EGC already gives advantages to survivors by not even being activated until the doors open or the hatch is closed, and not to mention the timer slowing down to help survivors get yet another chance.at rescues and escapes. Gates being somewhat close together gives the killer the ability to defend them and smart survivors a chance to open them if the play smart and stealthy.
0 -
I'm ok with PGtW since it rewards playing good and not camping for the killer.
I totally agree about gate spawns. They should remove the RNG about it and put them in fixed locations so that they are fair for both sides, meaning close enough for the killer to patrol them in 20 seconds or less but no so much that they can be patrolled both at the same time.
0 -
The doors should be spaced in a way where the killer still has to patrol, but the survivor should only escape if they play smart.
@Schmeltz I never understood this argument. Basically, survivors have to play smart and killers should get an easy kill. That doesn't sound justified. Both sides should be playing smart. The gates light up when there is work on them, and perks like whispers and spies exist for this reason. Opening the exit gates should force both sides to work smart, not one play a mindless waiting game until the other dies because they can't do anything.
I am sorry my 1.7k hours (which I will safely assume 1.3k of those are as killer) doesn't count me as a killer main for you. I am sorry I am not a sweaty try hard, need a 4k to feel good about myself type of player. I am sorry I get to red ranks without running unfun perks such as Pop, in fact, I never even made ruin teachable until after they changed it. The closest thing to a slow down perk I run is Corrupt. Basically I am sorry I don't live up to your standard of a killer main, I get the strong feeling you wont live up to mine either.
To say Pop is fine, I disagree. I don't think it doesn't have it's place, but compared to all other slow downs, it clearly is overpowered. As I said, I would prefer if it was changed to 15% but would also be happy if it forced the killer to at least prioritize a target instead of being so length. I am think it should either regress the gen less or have a much shorter counter on it. It's meant to slow down the game, not bring it to a crawl as it can often do now.
As for your argument on exit gates, you make the same point as Schmeltz
Gates being somewhat close together gives the killer the ability to defend them and smart survivors a chance to open them if the play smart and stealthy.
Once again, why is it a case of the survivors have to play smart? BOTH SIDES SHOULD HAVE TO PLAY SMART. Anyone who argues that end game collapse is not killer side, is either a bad killer or new to the game.
0 -
Lets consider both situations:
1) The survivors have all survived until endgame, the killer can only really secure 1 down in the time it takes for someone to open the gates, and if the killer just patrols them, you can take hits and get them open easily. If your team cant get the gates open in the time it takes for the killer to get a down or take multiple hits then i'm sorry but your team is just bad.
2) The killer closed the hatch and 1 survivor is left, the killer should have an absolute upper hand here as they survivor has had plenty of chances to escape as I said earlier. Keys, second chance perks, etc...
Also the fact that you think slowdown perks are second chances and you want pop nerfed just tells me that you either ain't a killer main, or you're a rank 15.
1 -
Pop used to have a shorter timer, but the problem then was that it was much less viable for non-mobile killers and really strong on Hillbilly, Spirit, etc. Reverting it to that would just keep the perk oppressive on killers with mobility (who tend to need it least) and make those with less map pressure stop running it.
Pop’s design as it is now is probably good for the game. The killer downs someone, hooks them, then goes to a gen to regress it. While it’s annoying to lose progress on a gen, it encourages killers to leave the hook and allow safe saves, which is a good thing.
1 -
Lets consider both situations:
1) If the killer was doing their job, there should really only be 2-3 people remaining, if all four have made it to this point, you screwed up as killer. The survivors did their job, you didn't. This should be harder for you. However, lets say you secure at least 1 kill before End Game. That means you have a high chance of getting two more kills or at least 1 more kill to tie the game. You can either a slug or hook and proxy camp for the save. Don't commit to a chase you can't win, at this point in the game you should realize what chases you can win.
2) In a 1v1, the killer already has the upper hand in a match. It shouldn't matter how the match got to this point. As killer you don't deserve a kill, you earn a kill. You're asking for a free kill, sorry I want more of a challenge.
Also the fact that you think slowdown perks are second chances and you want pop nerfed just tells me that you either ain't a killer main, or you're a rank 15.
I love this, Oh, you don't play like me, so you must be bad... I'll refer you to my previous statement, it pretty much applies to you too I guess
I am sorry my 1.7k hours (which I will safely assume 1.3k of those are as killer) doesn't count me as a killer main for you. I am sorry I am not a sweaty try hard, need a 4k to feel good about myself type of player. I am sorry I get to red ranks without running unfun perks such as Pop, in fact, I never even made ruin teachable until after they changed it. The closest thing to a slow down perk I run is Corrupt. Basically I am sorry I don't live up to your standard of a killer main, I get the strong feeling you wont live up to mine either.
BTW #RedRankGamer I guess the best advice I can offer you is, git gud.
0 -
My point here, is they are specifically addressing the map size issue. So the whole reason of it being less viable for non-mobile killers isn't as true anymore, and that is my point.
1 -
Yup pop didn't become king because it got a magical buff, its just people seeing it more and wanting to complain rather than adapt.
I mean how long were killer players meant to adapt after ruin change until only recently where a gen speed change is finally being tested?
0 -
The PTB isn’t out yet, so I think you’re jumping to this conclusion a bit too soon. None of us know how much the larger maps are being shrunk by. And even when they do get shrunk, it still takes a 110% or 115% movement speed killer a long time to cross even a small map, much longer than it takes Billy or Freddy or Spirit.
0 -
Not for BIlly. He can take you all at once
And I agree about the doors. It should be look in to but knowing the devs maybe in 2021 if we are lucky
0 -
when u start off saying "u play mostly killer"
1 -
Wait... How does EGC favor the killer when it only starts when the survivors have won?
And how is Pop OP when it requires the killer to chase, hit a survivors twice, carry them to the hook, hook the survivor, then hunt down a generator that's been worked on, then decide whether to chase the survivor that was on it or Pop the gen? What more do want for it's reward? Hook two survivors and do all that all over again?
0 -
"Pop can be Quite annoying for survivors"
Wow
1 -
I really don't get your first point, the doors can spawn close, but never that close that they survivors don't have enough time to stall the killer or take hits. If you literally cannot stall the killer for 20 seconds (give or take) even with 3 people, then as I said, your squad is trash. If the killer gets more than one down in this time, it's completely the survivors fault. Try using hope and adrenaline if you are having such an issue with this. There's really not much else to say.
To sum it up simply, stall the killer for 20 seconds, only one person max should die here.
As for your second point, stop making this around the killer "earning" or "deserving" the final kill or the 4k. It's about the survivor. I'll repeat myself:
About endgame collapse, the survivor has had so many chances to escape it absolutely should be difficult to escape at that point. Think, they could've done the gens, used their overwhelming amount of seconds chance perks, use a key or even just escape through hatch normally.
The survivors have obviously played bad if they have all died, why should the survivor now get an advantage or an even chance over the killer if they have had plenty of chances? The killer doesn't get an advantage when all the gens are done - unless the survivors play rarted of course, so why should the survivor when everyone else has died? I personally like the small chance a survivor gets to escape, but it would just be dumb if he had an equal chance after the amount of chances they've had.
To sum this up, it isn't about the killer "earning" a kill, its about the survivor who has played bad having a small chance to escape.
Also the fact that you just said that pop is "unfun" and that you have to say your hours tells me you ain't experienced with high tier play. :L
0 -
I would love to see a buff for overcharge and additionally a nerf to pop. Pop could apply direct 20% regression with a duration of 35/40/45 and overcharge could force an gen explosion after some requirements. People would maybe start thinking about synergising more cool perk builds then.
0 -
How are you not worried about more gen rushing with the changes.
"Theyll be slower working on it together, even though theyll keep doing it".
No they wont. It will just show people who dont ALREADY know how gen rushing works, that everyone on their own gen is way faster than 4 on 1 gen.
It is my one issue with this mid chapter update and everyone is oblivious to what it actually means.
Less "eh it's a little slower let's just do it together" and way more "ah ######### that I'll find my own" and they both pop faster than 2 people can do 2 together. And theyll start to realize that.
2 -
Nothing is wrong with Pop and your answer to it seems to be change it back or nerf it. It's nothing more than a slight hindrance by adding 20 seconds back. If you tap a gen and he pops it a second time that's on you.
Ya I do agree some exit gates are horrible, but at the same time EGC is meant to prevent hostage taking like hatch stand offs or hiding till the killer DC's. Realistically though if your the last survivor who couldn't find hatch and gets bad spawns with doors. You be clearly failed anyways. I do actually hate being able to stand on a hill between doors and watch both of them by just turning the camera a bit though.
0 -
This is simple, I will repeat it myself again.
I am sorry my 1.7k hours (which I will safely assume 1.3k of those are as killer) doesn't count me as a killer main for you. I am sorry I am not a sweaty try hard, need a 4k to feel good about myself type of player. I am sorry I get to red ranks without running unfun perks such as Pop, in fact, I never even made ruin teachable until after they changed it. The closest thing to a slow down perk I run is Corrupt. Basically I am sorry I don't live up to your standard of a killer main, I get the strong feeling you wont live up to mine either.
Um, it puts the survivors on a timer. Which clearly favors the killer. And no body has won until the game is over. There are so many times I have turned a 1k into a 3-4k because of EGC. Survivors make more mistakes, they get greedy for saves. A good slug or a far away hook gives the killer so much power in EGC.
Also, I never said Pop was OP. I simply wanted it changed to be more in line with all of the the other slow downs. To be fair in a perfect world for me I would like Pop nerfed either by amount or time and then have the other slow down perks like surge increased. Because I find surge to be a great perk, but way to weak. Why would a killer ever choose Surge over Pop. Which is why I have an issue with it.
This really breaks down to our two points of view. You feel like the survivors have enough chances to escape. You keep bring up all of these second chance perks and keys. Which most second chances perks can be avoided, keys just bring a mori. I feel like I should earn my kills and they should never be given to me, because someone else made a mistake.
You can't really call me a survivor main or a rank 15 and then not expect me to defend myself. The fact you tried to downplay my time spent into this game, because I justified myself when you called me out. Tells me you are a child with little to no logic comprehension.
This is what I am talking about, I would like pop brought down a peg, so it gives other perks a chance in the fight. In my previous example, I used Surge instead of Overcharge, but the idea is weaken Pop so other perks seem like a choice.
1 -
1.7k hours...... jajajajaja ok ive been playing since beta with over 3k hours. when people have to go out of their way to say "im a killer main" theyre really not. sweaty?? i think not but clearly playing as survivor is super ez, and even more so with SwFs but u wanna nerf killer. but ure a "killer main" jajajajajaja now thats funny.
1 -
Sorry I found the game a year and half later than you, my bad. I make sure to follow all of your game purchases from now on. I actually went out of my way, by saying "mostly play killer" and didn't say I was a killer main. Even if you re-read my comments, I never once say I am a killer main. But hey, reading is hard.
Everyone bring up my hours and rank is funny too, because read the OP again. I didn't bring up my time our rank until people started calling me out. I won't sit quietly to make you all feel better about being tryhards that need a 4k and feel like you deserve a kill.
As for survivor being easier, sure for some, but I honestly feel killer to be much less stressful and easier to play. Yeah, it might be easier for a 4 man SWF to escape, but that isn't every player in the game. I can understand that where it seems like so many here can't.
1 -
Yeah. it starts a timer because the survivors have already won. They could leave, since they opened the exite gate. They chose not to. The EGC is to stop that from being drawn out longer. It does nothing to the survivors other than tell them it's time to leave. It doesn't force them to stay or go for unhooks.
You said it yourself. Survivors get greedy. That's not the fault of the EGC. You literally admitted that it's not the EGC, it's survivor greed.
1 -
Assuming you accidently clicked on the wrong quote button, as this seems to be a clear reply to me. So I apologize if I am misunderstanding and you meant to apply to him.
You're are technically right, if survivors just open the door and run out, it's actually favors no one, because as you said, the survivors already won and you lost. How often do survivors just leave the game after opening exit gate? The only time I ever see this is when they can body block and get everyone alive to escape. Other than that. They in general get greedy and go for last minute saves and doing that on a timer, does benefit the killer far more than it benefits a survivor.
But yes, if the survivors just open the exit gate and run out, yes the EGC favors no one. My point is that it can only ever be a benefit to the killer, EGC will never be beneficial to the survivors.
0 -
Killer should be able to kick the exit gate and cause regression.
I dunno, just do a full roundhouse kick or something. Yee haw.
0 -
No hope of escaping? Do you play in green ranks with NOED or something?
0 -
To be honest, I wouldn't be opposed to an exit gate regressing as no on is on it. So maybe it regresses at like 0.5 seconds per second. This would prevent survivors from 99 gates, or at the very least force them to lose one person keeping the exit gate at 99, while others go for a save.
0 -
I play at red ranks, rarely do I get a 3-4 survivors with 5 gens completed. Usually when get to end game, at least 1-2 people are already dead. When the exit gates are down to a point where I can see both, I can in general down 1 person and either slug them or hook them to apply pressure. This usually results in me getting 1-2 more kills.
Now when its just one person and I've closed hatch, its dumb that the poor survivor who ended up making it that far is completely screwed by RNG because I can stand still and see both gates.
0 -
mostly play killer = kill main. killer mains can and do play survivor from time to time.
Survivor ez mode, while some parts of killer have gotten ez'er other parts have gotten harder to play, for example doctor nerf, nurse nerf x2 and so on.
0 -
If they don't leave, they chose to take the risk of giving the killer more opportunities to kill them. Their fault.
EGC has nothing to do with survivors CHOOSING to give the killer more time to kill them. It doesn't benefit anyone. It simply signals the end of the game. in 2-4 minutes. No more. No less.
0 -
I don't get it. Why are players thinking that the 'nerf' to gen speed is adding a massive amount of time? It's not. It's a few seconds with multiple people, not half a minute. Gens are still going to pop quickly, just not so quickly at the start of a match.
0 -
It's not really unfair to Survivors when the only reason you don't have a 1k is because they literally handed you their heads on a platter.
A huge amount of 4k games come just because 3 Survivors couldn't bear to leave 1 guy behind and take their win... It's not a win if everyone alive doesn't walk out, even if one of those is on a hook at endgame.
That has nothing to do with killer strength or survivor weakness and everything to do with Survivors playing dumb, being bored, or getting greedy. That's not the sort of thing that the game should be trying to reward OR mitigate.
0
