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I did the math on the RBT, proving Amanda needs a buff
Add ons-
•Amanda’s letter: -2 boxes, -3 RBT
•Rule Set #2: Survivors can’t sew Boxes until trap is active
•Crate of Gears: Increases trap place speed (should slow survivor’s search speed, but doesn’t)
•Jigsaw’s Sketch: +1 box
•Tampered Timer: -30 seconds on the death timer
•Bag of gears: increases trap place speed (same thing as crate of gears)
•Interlocking razors: x2 penalty of missed skill checks
•Jigsaw’s Plan: +1 box, +30 seconds to death timer
•Last Will: +1 RBT
•Razor Wires: Extra skill check chance
•Workshop Grease: Extra skill check chance
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Time To remove trap:
~~ The way maps work is with tiles. Tiles are 8 meters each.
~~ Pale Rose is 215 tiles (1720 meters) and is the biggest map. Léry’s is 116 tiles (928 meters) and is the smallest map.
~~ Survivors run at 4m/s, and walk at 2.26m/s.
~~ I split the four boxes into evenly split distance. I did not account for RNG, as it causes some to spawn closer together, or outliers farther way.
~~ all times are if the last box is the box is the one with the key.
•Pale Rose:
-1720 meters
-430 meter space between box
-Time to remove trap:
~107.5 seconds when running
~190.26 seconds when walking
-On the Pale Rose, of the survivor only runs, it will take 108 seconds, which spares 42 seconds.
•Léry’s:
-928 meters
-232 meters between box
-Time to remove trap:
~58 seconds while running
~102.65 seconds while walking
-On Léry’s, if the survivor walks, it will take 102.65 seconds, which spares 47 seconds (rounded up).
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Survivor Perk Counters:
-Leader: +9% speed to search (someone is needed nearby). Changes search to 11.7 seconds
-Prove Thyself: +3-9% with people around. Changes search to 12.61-11.7 seconds.
-Resilience: +9% speed increase while injured. Changes time to 11.7 seconds.
-Left behind: +25-125% speed increase. Changes time to 9.75 seconds with one genterator left. Changes time to 6.5 seconds with four generators left.
Detective’s hunch: +5% for each skillcheck (up to four skill checks)
~~One leader + three Prove Thyself + resilience = 3.51 seconds.
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Chance to escape:
~~Base chance is 20%
-Up the Ante: +3-12% extra chances of escape.
-Salty Lips: x2 luck
-Salt Statuette: x1.5 luck
-Salt Pouch: 50% Extra Luck
(Note these are only the luck offering effecting ALL survivors)
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Comments
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I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
1. Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
2. Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.12 -
The biggest problem is simply this:
- Survivors are the ones who determine whether or not the Pig's ability triggers in the first place. This makes the player's skill completely irrelevant and makes the traps a non-issue for Survivors until they actually decide to leave. Have them start ticking immediately and only stop when the Survivor is hooked or in the dying state, and her power might actually become relevant.
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i think that her rbts should trigger when attempting a hatch jump.
if they have to find a key in one of 4 boxes, escaping thru the hatch doesnt make sense anyway3 -
Regarding her ambush:
The best buff would be to simply increase her acceleration to her max speed, this would make SB less consistant and mindgames better.
RBTs:
There are quite a few options, i really like Peanits idea to always have them search atleast two boxes and not have them take them off in less than 30s because RNG.
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My friend and I tested Tampered Timer and Jigsaw's Plan (the purple one) to see if you could do it, and it's possible but requires VERY optimal pathing and for you to avoid the killer. If you get lost or spend too much time being immersed around the killer you will not be able to get it off in time. With a normal Pig, that's not required, which is why those are her best add-ons IMO.
RBT isn't meant to kill, only slow the game because it forces a survivor to go look for boxes. Good RNG gets you 2 minutes, bad RNG gets you 30 seconds. TT/JP makes it possible to RBT even good survivors.
I don't see the problem.
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I like the pig where she is, the biggest and most meaningful buff i think we should give her is change where the growl audio plays in the animation, it's awful being at the start.
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@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
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Do you want to a guaranteed way to kill survivors after a mere down and not even a hook?Orion said:@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
BTW she has a power that can harm, its called a dash.8 -
The Pigs' traps are designed to give you time. If you're trying to kill with it, the problem is you.
I wouldn't mind if she got some buffs but her entire premise is to force the survivors to play her games (like in the films).
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@ChesterTheMolester said:
Do you want to a guaranteed way to kill survivors after a mere down and not even a hook?BTW she has a power that can harm, its called a dash.
No, I want something that is actually an active threat to Survivors, instead of something that only becomes a threat if they decide it does. In short, I want Survivors to not have the power over whether or not Killers are a threat to them.
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@Mc_Harty said:
The Pigs' traps are designed to give you time. If you're trying to kill with it, the problem is you.I wouldn't mind if she got some buffs but her entire premise is to force the survivors to play her games (like in the films).
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.
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@Orion said:
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.The bear traps are a threat.
It's the only power in the game that can kill survivors without the need for moris, hooks and add-ons.
They can prevent teamwork on generators because an individual with an active trap isn't going to help their team to complete a generator. The survivors with the bear trap are going to go to boxes, which means less people on the generators, which means you have more time to be a active threat against the survivors.
They can prevent healing because you probably won't have enough time to sit still for a heal and go to the boxes. Even without Mangled affecting the wounded survivor.
The Pig needs tweaking, but saying her traps aren't threatening is just wrong.
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.The bear traps are a threat.
It's the only power in the game that can kill survivors without the need for moris, hooks and add-ons.
They can prevent teamwork on generators because an individual with an active trap isn't going to help their team to complete a generator. The survivors with the bear trap going to go to boxes, which means less people on the generators, which means you have more time to be a active threat against the survivors.
They can prevent healing because you probably won't have enough time to sit still for a heal and go to the boxes. Even without Mangled affecting the wounded survivor.
The Pig needs tweaking, but saying her traps aren't threatening is just wrong.
It takes at least one minute to down a half-decent looper, but let's put it down to 30 seconds, assuming you got the ambush attack. That person will then be in the dying state, meaning zero RBT progression.
Once they're out of the dying state (+30 seconds), it's up to the Survivors if the RBT even starts ticking (which is when it becomes an active threat; before that it's a minor nuisance you have to take care of, not unlike Ruin). Let's assume another 30 seconds until a generator is repaired.
At this point, 90 seconds have passed, and only now has the RBT gone from "mild nuisance that can take up to a minute to remove" to "I will die in 2 minutes and 30 seconds if I don't get this thing off". Furthermore, it only got this far because the Survivors willed it. That's my problem with RBTs - the Survivors dictate when they become an active threat. Until the Survivors decide to make it an active threat, RBTs can be ignored. Go search every chest on the map, go loop the Killer, go hide in a locker, it doesn't matter - you are in no danger from the Killer's power. That is a major design flaw.
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@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
The Pigs' traps are designed to give you time. If you're trying to kill with it, the problem is you.I wouldn't mind if she got some buffs but her entire premise is to force the survivors to play her games (like in the films).
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.
This is one of the coolest powers in the game. I honestly love the mechanic because it provides a new kind of fear to the game. You know that anyone can set off that generator, knowing it’ll start the timer. And I’ve had plenty of moments where it was always the fourth box, bah. Haha.
I love that it forces you to interact with something new on the map,and changes the mechanics and play style of the game a bit ^_^
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@Orion said:
It takes at least one minute to down a half-decent looper, but let's put it down to 30 seconds, assuming you got the ambush attack. That person will then be in the dying state, meaning zero RBT progression.Once they're out of the dying state (+30 seconds), it's up to the Survivors if the RBT even starts ticking (which is when it becomes an active threat; before that it's a minor nuisance you have to take care of, not unlike Ruin). Let's assume another 30 seconds until a generator is repaired.
At this point, 90 seconds have passed, and only now has the RBT gone from "mild nuisance that can take up to a minute to remove" to "I will die in 2 minutes and 30 seconds if I don't get this thing off". Furthermore, it only got this far because the Survivors willed it. That's my problem with RBTs - the Survivors dictate when they become an active threat. Until the Survivors decide to make it an active threat, RBTs can be ignored. Go search every chest on the map, go loop the Killer, go hide in a locker, it doesn't matter - you are in no danger from the Killer's power. That is a major design flaw.
Nothing about what you said makes an active bear traps not threatening.
It seems your major complaint is that the bear traps aren't effective at killing the survivors.
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@xmenfanatic said:
@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
The Pigs' traps are designed to give you time. If you're trying to kill with it, the problem is you.I wouldn't mind if she got some buffs but her entire premise is to force the survivors to play her games (like in the films).
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.
This is one of the coolest powers in the game. I honestly love the mechanic because it provides a new kind of fear to the game. You know that anyone can set off that generator, knowing it’ll start the timer. And I’ve had plenty of moments where it was always the fourth box, bah. Haha.
I love that it forces you to interact with something new on the map,and changes the mechanics and play style of the game a bit ^_^
The problem, as with most balance issues in the game, is that Survivors have all the power in that situation. They decide when RBTs start counting down. They decide when RBTs go from mild nuisance to active threat.
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I’m pretty sure the survivor with the bear trap doesn’t have any power. So you’re still striping power from the survivor
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@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
It takes at least one minute to down a half-decent looper, but let's put it down to 30 seconds, assuming you got the ambush attack. That person will then be in the dying state, meaning zero RBT progression.Once they're out of the dying state (+30 seconds), it's up to the Survivors if the RBT even starts ticking (which is when it becomes an active threat; before that it's a minor nuisance you have to take care of, not unlike Ruin). Let's assume another 30 seconds until a generator is repaired.
At this point, 90 seconds have passed, and only now has the RBT gone from "mild nuisance that can take up to a minute to remove" to "I will die in 2 minutes and 30 seconds if I don't get this thing off". Furthermore, it only got this far because the Survivors willed it. That's my problem with RBTs - the Survivors dictate when they become an active threat. Until the Survivors decide to make it an active threat, RBTs can be ignored. Go search every chest on the map, go loop the Killer, go hide in a locker, it doesn't matter - you are in no danger from the Killer's power. That is a major design flaw.
Nothing about what you said makes an active bear traps not threatening.
It seems your major complaint is that the bear traps aren't effective at killing the survivors.
Literally one sentence in my entire comment pertains to active bear traps, and it says they're a threat. I'm going to assume you're not reading what I'm writing and pay you back in kind.
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@xmenfanatic said:
I’m pretty sure the survivor with the bear trap doesn’t have any power. So you’re still striping power from the survivorThey can see where all the Jigsaw boxes are and have 2 minutes and 30 seconds to find the right key.
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@Orion said:
Literally one sentence in my entire comment pertains to active bear traps, and it says they're a threat. I'm going to assume you're not reading what I'm writing and pay you back in kind.If it takes you 1 minute to down the looper then obviously a generator is going to be done in 20 seconds. Because Ambush isn't useful at all, we can dismiss that theory about it being useful in a chase.
Considering, in most cases, a generator is completed as soon as you pick the trapped survivor up. And if its not... then whats the issue? The trap is still doing its job. Survivors are forced to go to boxes to take it off otherwise it kills them. It doesn't need to be active to help you buy time and help you as the killer be more threatening to the other survivors.
Again your major problem seems to be that the traps aren't effective enough, not that they aren't threatening by design.
Post edited by Mc_Harty on3 -
@Orion said:
@xmenfanatic said:
I’m pretty sure the survivor with the bear trap doesn’t have any power. So you’re still striping power from the survivorThey can see where all the Jigsaw boxes are and have 2 minutes and 30 seconds to find the right key.
Knowing where the box is doesn’t give them too much ability to survive. I’ve had plenty of games where the trap only released on the last box, and you still have to avoid being caught while using it. And getting to it as well. People know that it’s impossible to survive with it on. I can see how you might want to alter it somehow, but I really think it’s a fun and inter sting mechanic, and I really enjoy how the pig works when I use her.
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Giving you more time to kill them because counters gen rush, one of main issues for many killers.Orion said:@xmenfanatic said:
@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
The Pigs' traps are designed to give you time. If you're trying to kill with it, the problem is you.I wouldn't mind if she got some buffs but her entire premise is to force the survivors to play her games (like in the films).
I don't try to get kills with the traps, nor do I expect to. The point is, if you make something that's not a threat by design, then Survivors become the ones with all the power.
This is one of the coolest powers in the game. I honestly love the mechanic because it provides a new kind of fear to the game. You know that anyone can set off that generator, knowing it’ll start the timer. And I’ve had plenty of moments where it was always the fourth box, bah. Haha.
I love that it forces you to interact with something new on the map,and changes the mechanics and play style of the game a bit ^_^
The problem, as with most balance issues in the game, is that Survivors have all the power in that situation. They decide when RBTs start counting down. They decide when RBTs go from mild nuisance to active threat.
Btw, it's not like survivors respect other survivors with RBTs in every match and wait for them to remove it...3 -
The pig dont need buff and the main objective of the RBT is not killing but wast time (and kill if they wast too much time)
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@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
The RBT's are not her power they are a secondary effect in essence to utilise allowing you to slow the game down.
Her actual power is the ambush.
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I think the Pig is mostly fine as she is, although she relies a little too much on RNG for my liking. The only thing i'd like to change is the Jigsaw Box auras. I honestly don't think they should be displayed until the trap is armed because when it isn't armed it poses absolutely no danger to you. Once it is armed, however, you already have more than enough time to reach all 4 Jigsaw Boxes anyway.
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@Orion said:
@ChesterTheMolester said:
Do you want to a guaranteed way to kill survivors after a mere down and not even a hook?BTW she has a power that can harm, its called a dash.
No, I want something that is actually an active threat to Survivors, instead of something that only becomes a threat if they decide it does. In short, I want Survivors to not have the power over whether or not Killers are a threat to them.
An active RBT is a threat to a survivor. Even without add-ons, if they ignore it for more than 60 seconds there is a high chance they will die, because they can't search all the boxes in time. When it's not active they still waste time at boxes. The mistakes I see a lot of Pigs make are 1) RBT every survivor on first down, and 2) going after players with active traps. If their trap is active you should leave them alone unless you really can't catch anyone else. Don't break a chase to go after these guys, let them waste time doing boxes. Pace the traps to keep the game going at a steady pace. It's not something meant to kill them, it's meant to be a time sink for survivors. But if you keep going after the guy with the trap, everyone else just does gens. If you chase someone else, you can get 1 on a hook, 1 doing boxes, 1 on a gen, and 1 coming to save. If you catch the guy making a save, now the guy on gens has to go for the save, so now no one is on gens. That's how you win as killer.
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@Lowbei said:
i think that her rbts should trigger when attempting a hatch jump.if they have to find a key in one of 4 boxes, escaping thru the hatch doesnt make sense anyway
@Lowbei said:
i think that her rbts should trigger when attempting a hatch jump.if they have to find a key in one of 4 boxes, escaping thru the hatch doesnt make sense anyway
@Lowbei said:
i think that her rbts should trigger when attempting a hatch jump.if they have to find a key in one of 4 boxes, escaping thru the hatch doesnt make sense anyway
The hatch was created to reward survivors failure, your suggestion would contradict this design decision
edit: quoting in this forum.... no words
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Technically the Survivor with the trap on their head can just ignore the trap. I've been trapped and yet working on gens anyway because I honestly stop caring about surviving when playing against a pig.xmenfanatic said:I’m pretty sure the survivor with the bear trap doesn’t have any power. So you’re still striping power from the survivor
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I think they should make RBTs deadlier. I know it's supposed to stall but when the survivor can take it off after searching one box, it really doesn't do much. Besides, The Pig and Michael Myers are the only killers who can actually "kill" survivors with their power so they should be feared.
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Left Behind doesn't do anything but decrease Generator repair time.
And Stake Out is actually the one that does what you say Detective's Hunch does.0 -
I was thinking about having Rules Set NO. 2 built in to her main kit and have the new Rules Set NO.2 permanently hide Jigsaw auras. Additionally make the first Jigsaw box not have the key so survivors can't instantly get them off. With these two changes, a disabled RBT will be a threat since you can't see the Jigsaw boxes, thus you have to waste time and find them or wait for your timer to activate to see the auras.Salty_Pearl said:I think they should make RBTs deadlier. I know it's supposed to stall but when the survivor can take it off after searching one box, it really doesn't do much. Besides, The Pig and Michael Myers are the only killers who can actually "kill" survivors with their power so they should be feared.
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@Nickenzie said:
I was thinking about having Rules Set NO. 2 built in to her main kit and have the new Rules Set NO.2 permanently hide Jigsaw auras. Additionally make the first Jigsaw box not have the key so survivors can't instantly get them off. With these two changes, a disabled RBT will be a threat since you can't see the Jigsaw boxes, thus you have to waste time and find them or wait for your timer to activate to see the auras.Why it's not part of her base kit, I will never understand.
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@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
I do not. The pig is not a kill power killer, he's a stealth and delay killer. I think it does what it's supposed to very well most of the time- pulling people off of generators and forcing them to take off their trap (or die), or stay in the game longer than they'd like. She's also got another ability on top of that, allowing her to go completely silent and get an extended lunge.
I think making the RBT a killing tool would be making the pig into something she's not, and changing the way she plays at its core. More importantly, I can see it being miserable to play against if getting unlucky with the boxes basically meant an instant death with nothing you can do about it, while the pig wanders around the map chasing other people.
I really feel like the best solution in this case is to help it do what it's supposed to do: Stall. Get people off of generators and keep them there. The issue here is RNG. Someone can get it off with only one box, and that's something I feel should be changed. Ensuring a minimum amount of time to take off the trap guarantees that she has a certain degree of power, rather than leaving it completely up to luck.
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Why having Rules Set NO.2 built in to her main kit such a problem? Seriously, it won't kill survivors unless they are brain dead. I'm really aggravated because survivors make something small and make it seem like it's OP! Please tell me how Rules Set NO.2 will make a RBT deadly now?Mc_Harty said:Why it's not part of her base kit, I will never understand.
Edit: Sorry for my baby fit @Mc_Hartybut again, why is that such a problem?1 -
Wouldn't the proposed RNG fix give even more power to the survivor? They can see the layout of the boxes. so by checking a box guaranteed to be a dud, the smart choice being the one farthest from the others, they game the system into assuring the key is in a more tightly packed area saving them travel time. This is a huge advantage if you're timer isn't already running.Peanits said:@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
I do not. The pig is not a kill power killer, he's a stealth and delay killer. I think it does what it's supposed to very well most of the time- pulling people off of generators and forcing them to take off their trap (or die), or stay in the game longer than they'd like. She's also got another ability on top of that, allowing her to go completely silent and get an extended lunge.
I think making the RBT a killing tool would be making the pig into something she's not, and changing the way she plays at its core. More importantly, I can see it being miserable to play against if getting unlucky with the boxes basically meant an instant death with nothing you can do about it, while the pig wanders around the map chasing other people.
I really feel like the best solution in this case is to help it do what it's supposed to do: Stall. Get people off of generators and keep them there. The issue here is RNG. Someone can get it off with only one box, and that's something I feel should be changed. Ensuring a minimum amount of time to take off the trap guarantees that she has a certain degree of power, rather than leaving it completely up to luck.
For my two cents I think the blindness status effect should apply to jigsaw boxes as well. They're plenty of audio cues for the boxes when you are near and they are easy to spot. Being spoon fed their location is why they are so easy. We could leave the rest and still come up with enough RBT deaths to satisfy killers while map awareness and some dumb luck will see the rest through2 -
She just needs a few tweaks that make the traps more of a stress test without it being oppressive.
And if they could make Ambush a little less crappy, that'd be nice.
But people need to stop insinuating her RBT should be an innate Ebony Mori. It's not happening.
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@Visionmaker said:
She just needs a few tweaks that make the traps more of a stress test without it being oppressive.And if they could make Ambush a little less crappy, that'd be nice.
But people need to stop insinuating her RBT should be an innate Ebony Mori. It's not happening.
The only people insinuating that are the people who pretend others have insinuated that.
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@Orion said:
@Visionmaker said:
She just needs a few tweaks that make the traps more of a stress test without it being oppressive.And if they could make Ambush a little less crappy, that'd be nice.
But people need to stop insinuating her RBT should be an innate Ebony Mori. It's not happening.
The only people insinuating that are the people who pretend others have insinuated that.
It's a common complaint that the RBT doesn't kill. This isn't new.
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I think that RBT's time wasting aspect doesn't work as intended. We should have seen much longer games with pig than hillbilly or huntress but with slugging etc. hillbilly has more potential to have longer games while having his 1 shot ability and movement speed. The reason why I am comparing pig with hillbilly is because hillbilly is okay where he is now and has a reasonable chance to win
If you don't want RBTs to kill survivors, then raise the time that is required to kill a survivor. Give 5 boxes and when you have RBT you shouldn't be able to see the boxes auras. It will require survivors to search for boxes before getting caught and it will make game significantly longer than it is now for pig. Her power would require exploration and it will make matches with her more unique.
Pig is not good where she is now. This is bullshit. So let's stop pretending like she is not low mid tier and make her more of a threat.
Edit I said boxes instead of box aura
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@Visionmaker said:
@Orion said:
@Visionmaker said:
She just needs a few tweaks that make the traps more of a stress test without it being oppressive.And if they could make Ambush a little less crappy, that'd be nice.
But people need to stop insinuating her RBT should be an innate Ebony Mori. It's not happening.
The only people insinuating that are the people who pretend others have insinuated that.
It's a common complaint that the RBT doesn't kill. This isn't new.
Not in this thread. My complaint (that RBTs put all the power in the Survivors' hands, as I demonstrated) had people pretend it was that, though.
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@azazer said:
Peanits said:@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.
This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
I do not. The pig is not a kill power killer, he's a stealth and delay killer. I think it does what it's supposed to very well most of the time- pulling people off of generators and forcing them to take off their trap (or die), or stay in the game longer than they'd like. She's also got another ability on top of that, allowing her to go completely silent and get an extended lunge.
I think making the RBT a killing tool would be making the pig into something she's not, and changing the way she plays at its core. More importantly, I can see it being miserable to play against if getting unlucky with the boxes basically meant an instant death with nothing you can do about it, while the pig wanders around the map chasing other people.
I really feel like the best solution in this case is to help it do what it's supposed to do: Stall. Get people off of generators and keep them there. The issue here is RNG. Someone can get it off with only one box, and that's something I feel should be changed. Ensuring a minimum amount of time to take off the trap guarantees that she has a certain degree of power, rather than leaving it completely up to luck.
Wouldn't the proposed RNG fix give even more power to the survivor? They can see the layout of the boxes. so by checking a box guaranteed to be a dud, the smart choice being the one farthest from the others, they game the system into assuring the key is in a more tightly packed area saving them travel time. This is a huge advantage if you're timer isn't already running.
For my two cents I think the blindness status effect should apply to jigsaw boxes as well. They're plenty of audio cues for the boxes when you are near and they are easy to spot. Being spoon fed their location is why they are so easy. We could leave the rest and still come up with enough RBT deaths to satisfy killers while map awareness and some dumb luck will see the rest through
Possibly? The thing is, it's all nebulous. It's impossible to look at it and just say, "This is the box you should search first." There's far too many factors that could contribute to it. e.g. How many generators are near the other boxes, where is the killer currently, how is the killer playing? If the killer knows you searched that one all the way across the map for example, they could easily guard the remaining three close by ones while protecting nearby generators as well and make it very difficult for you to remove your trap.
I would imagine it goes back to the overall strategy of the game. To each their own. You may want to do that, but others may go for one of the clustered ones first much like generators, to prevent it from being too easy to guard. Others might just go from the closest one to the next, just to get that dud out of the way ASAP and give themselves as much time as possible to find the key.
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I've seen big name streamers DC matches because they had the RBT applied to them at end game. The pressure it generates is huge.
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Another thing to consider: I don't think survivors should be able to search Jigsaw Boxes until their trap activates via a generator being completed. (The trap should also activate automatically if all generators are completed.) Here's my reasoning: The reverse bear trap is part of jigsaw's "game". To win the "game", survivors have to remove the trap. However, in continuity with the saw films, the game starts when the reverse bear trap's timer begins. So, why do survivors get the chance to end the "game" before the"game" even begins?Peanits said:I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
1. Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
2. Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.0 -
Yes the RBT isn’t made for killing, but it’s still not threatening. You’re taking one survivor off the the generators. You’re not stopping everyone from working on them. A survivor with an unarmed trap isn’t a pressured survivor.Peanits said:I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
1. Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
2. Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.0 -
Another thing to consider: I don't think survivors should be able to search Jigsaw Boxes until their trap activates via a generator being completed. (The trap should also activate automatically if all generators have already been completed.) Here's my reasoning: The reverse bear trap is part of jigsaw's "game". To win the "game", survivors have to remove the trap. However, in continuity with the saw films, the game starts when the reverse bear trap's timer begins. So, why do survivors get the chance to end the "game" before the"game" even begins?Peanits said:I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
1. Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
2. Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.0 -
@iceman2kx said:
I've seen big name streamers DC matches because they had the RBT applied to them at end game. The pressure it generates is huge.Most streamers are toxic whiners like that because most stream viewers reward that behavior. Not a good example.
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@Sandt21 said:
Peanits said:I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.
Another thing to consider: I don't think survivors should be able to search Jigsaw Boxes until their trap activates via a generator being completed. (The trap should also activate automatically if all generators have already been completed.) Here's my reasoning: The reverse bear trap is part of jigsaw's "game". To win the "game", survivors have to remove the trap. However, in continuity with the saw films, the game starts when the reverse bear trap's timer begins. So, why do survivors get the chance to end the "game" before the"game" even begins?
I think this would make for a good add-on, honestly. Maybe a very-rare.
Though lore-wise, Amanada actually (SPOILERS TO OLD MOVIES AHEAD)
failed here test and broke the rules. She killed people when she should not have, they were supposed to be set free if they completed their test.
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@Nickenzie said:
Why having Rules Set NO.2 built in to her main kit such a problem? Seriously, it won't kill survivors unless they are brain dead. I'm really aggravated because survivors make something small and make it seem like it's OP! Please tell me how Rules Set NO.2 will make a RBT deadly now?Edit: Sorry for my baby fit @Mc_Harty but again, why is that such a problem?
I never said it was?
I said I don't understand why Rule Set No.2 isn't part of her main build.
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Oh, my apologies! I thought you didn't understand why everyone wanted it for her main kit! Again, my apologies!Mc_Harty said:@Nickenzie said:
Why having Rules Set NO.2 built in to her main kit such a problem? Seriously, it won't kill survivors unless they are brain dead. I'm really aggravated because survivors make something small and make it seem like it's OP! Please tell me how Rules Set NO.2 will make a RBT deadly now?Edit: Sorry for my baby fit @Mc_Harty but again, why is that such a problem?
I never said it was?
I said I don't understand why Rule Set No.2 isn't part of her main build.
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