Why Does Legion Have a Cooldown After Basic Attack....
But Spirit doesn’t. If Legion hits a survivor with a basic attack, he loses some of his power gauge and is unable to use it until it’s filled back up.
Spirit is already stronger than Legion, but for some reason Legion gets a cooldown for doing his job...
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It’s because he would be able to constantly injure survivors. Thus making the gameplay for survivors boring and annoying because they would constantly have to mend. By the devs adding this feature it makes it less frequent of a survivor having to mend all the time.
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Imagine if Spirit damaged someone by phasing through them, then popped out of phasing and downed them within 5 seconds.
Apply this to Legion and Feral Frenzy. There is your answer.
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He isn't talking about the stun after frenzy. You lose some of his power gauge when hitting someone outside of frenzy.
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...this makes no sense.
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Indeed, good Spirit players can hurt and then down survivor in 3s.
FF cooldown after every hit is unnecessary. Its not lethal power and survivors can spread to make his power completely useless.
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I think he means if it's a good Legion you could end up spending the game mending 90% of the time instead of doing something.
He wasn't talking about it either. He was talking about a 2 hit combo thing.
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well it's kinda his job. Keep you in injure and make you mend. His power isn't lethal, so besides annoyance, it won't matter if he will activate FF after hitting you normally, in most cases, you'd be saved by this, because normally Legion players are going after other survivors to chain attacks.
I think you missed the point. At least what I understand, you compare this to Spirit using her power first, then damaging survivor with it and then downing him immediately after switching off the power. OP is talking about Legion losing his power gauge after hitting survivor with basic M1 attack, leaving them powerless. Yes, this was made so people wouldn't abuse bleeding mechanic, but now when it's long gone in the past, this is utterly useless and drags Legion down in term of his potential.
As for OP, yeah I ask myself with that question too. Spirit and Hillbilly have so far more powerful abilities than Legion, and yet here we are… I guess survivors would just cry about being forced to mend after just being hit normally… HOW SHOCKING that killer, who's job is to slow your progress down and be any kind of threat, IS DOING THEIR JOB!
However, how people would cry about it, devs wont change it, and even if, they would just reduce it to maybe 30-25% of power gauge loss, with the new changes to gen speed and map design. Tbh, if they removed this feature from them, I would stop crying about 4 sec fatigue after canceling power, damn, I would even accept 5 sec fatigue, just let me use my power more often.
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It's an old relic of Legion 1.0, but doesn't actually make sense with current Legion.
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Yeah it really needs to go lol, kinda seems like they almost forgot its still a thing
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Survivors are the type of people who stick a fork in an electrical socket and never learn the lesson. The only way to help our 200iq survivors is to put 5s cooldown on the electric shock..
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Yeah, I kinda misread the original post.
I guess the thing is that Legion is meant to just go into their power at the start of a chase.
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But that is actually his power. Spread damage. It is non lethal. So why the need to nerf this power by basekit?
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Well, they also forgot about old Legion when they introduced Nemesis, needing to rework the mending :P
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because survivors cant learn social distancing. 😁
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I agree with this. Legion is the only killer who gets a penalty for landing a basic attack without touching their power.
Ghostface loses his stealth, but this is understandable - he only gets this penalty for attacking while his power was active.
Freddy and Oni actively BENEFIT from landing hits without touching their powers.
Legion losing power gauge upon landing an M1 hit is no different than the idea of Nurse losing a blink charge when she hits a survivor without blinking, or the Deathslinger's gun needing to be reloaded whenever he stabs someone. It's a pointless jab at the killer for doing their job right.
The only reason I can imagine this being in the game for would be to prevent a killer from downing a survivor, then immediately entering frenzy to wound one or two other survivors before hooking the first survivor, but I don't understand why this would be discouraged? Is this not a skillful (hell, one of the only good) use of The Legion's power, to punish survivors from hanging out right next to a chase? Is that OP in some way I can't understand?
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If they can't learn that these days, they probably shouldn't be called survivors (evil joke)
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Just one of many weird issues with Legion, like why can't Legion see generator auras when Killer Instinct is active (something a Dev, Almo, didn't even know about)?
Legion was designed by a committee.
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They actually can get also a penalty when they hit people with their power. With the second hit.
I would also say, it would make more sense that a hit that doesn't down someone actually increases your power gauge.
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I never understood this, when I do my Legion dailies this always boggles my mind.
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Yeah, you'd think that considering the idea of the power is them entering a "Deadly Rage", stabbing someone would help that along, not prevent it :/
(Pfft, 'deadly rage', more like a less-than-lethal rage, considering it seems to be easier to recover from than being pepper sprayed, and healing a 'deep wound' AND being 'injured' with no medical supplies on your own takes less time than most people need to stop a nosebleed)
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Oni should be punished for hitting survivors then, too. 😂
Also, Oni can down all 4 survivors with his power.
It doesnt matter that Oni's power doesnt charge automatically, because his power is actually very lethal..
EDIT: If Oni is hurting already hurt survivors, decrease his power charge. YES xD
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And your post makes sense how?
Post edited by Zoldyar on0 -
"well it's kinda his job. Keep you in injure and make you mend. His power isn't lethal, so besides annoyance, it won't matter if he will activate FF after hitting you normally, in most cases, you'd be saved by this, because normally Legion players are going after other survivors to chain attacks."
Just because it's his power, doesn't mean it should come without any disadvantages or limitations.
Also, it isn't just the constant mending that makes legion hard to deal with. it's also because of how his frenzy has no counter. I thought we already established as a community, legion wasn't healthy for the game at all because there is nothing the surivior can do when he is in his frenzy.
They chain attacks because it restores his power, allowing him to attack more survivors. So imagine if he was capable of not only doing that, but also getting his power back quickly with add ons. You understand why he lose his power when he hits a surivior out of his frenzy now?
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Once again, his frenzy has no counter that a surivior can perform against him. He also regains his power each time he hits a surivior. So if he had a quick recovery, has no counter when using his ability and regain his power when he hits a surivior, no one would be playing the game. The gameplay will become repetitive because every 20 seconds a surivior has to mend. It's the reason why people say legion should get deleted because he doesn't help the game at all.
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He doesn't help survivors if his power makes you mend its a slow down and we all know how survivors hate not having 3 minute games if its not gen rush its boring
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What do you mean?
I said your logic doesn't make sense. I don't see how it could make any more sense than that.
Sure, I could explain what I mean more in dept, but it won't make more sense, the message is still that your logic didn't make sense.
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This. Although I see why it is how it is currently. I just think he needs a full rework.
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Now I see where you are coming from. Let me put it like this:
Legion's frenzy has no counter that a surivior can perform against him(it is also part of the reason why legion was hated in the community when he first came out and still is now).
He also regains his power each time he hits a surivior. Thus allowing him to go up around putting everyone in mending.
So if he had a quick recovery time (the devs removing him losing his power when hitting a surivior out of his frenzy), on addtion to that use his add ons to speed up the recovery, has no counter when using his ability and regain his power when he hits a surivior. No one in the right mind would find playing against a legion fun (we still dont).
The gameplay will quickly become repetitive because every 20 seconds a surivior has to mend and hold m1 for pretty much the whole game. I'm pretty sure I don't need to go into much detail why this isn't fun and why the community went on a rant about legion.
Now do you understand why people made videos or post explaining that legion can't become balanced and should be deleted?
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But what about losing 50% of his power after a basic attack has to do with any of this?
You think legion is gonna do a basic attack on someone and activate it's power afterwards? Why?
In what situation is that a good play? Or in what what situation that is somehow better than activate FF before doing the basic attack?
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Probably because survivors would have to mend more and it’d be boring.
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Do you realize how OP it would be to just repeatedly keep stabbing and frenzying on the same survivor with no cooldown, with the addon that reduces the bleedout bar per stab?
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It's very obvious many survivor commenters in this thread have never played Legion.
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Yea, pretty op, it only takes like 80 seconds to down someone with that addon, plz nerf.
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Spirit takes time to charge her phasing + she can't see the survivor so they have time to run and then hide when she is phasing.
Legion's frenzy is activated instantly and he can see the survivor. Imagine you hit them , they get speed boosted by the hit , but you are already on their a$$ cause you activate frenzy right after the hit.
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Did you even read what I wrote? Do you even know how much that addon reduces the timer by per stab? Why would it even take close to 80 seconds to down somebody with that addon, if Legion were allowed to stab as many times as he wanted in his power without cooldown?
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nah man, the secret pro tech is to hit someone 90 times in the same feral frenzy, so they get teleported to a basement hook!
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Because you essentially get wallhacks to every survivor in your range(I say that cause there's detection addons), can vault pallets, outrun survivors, and chain effects on everyone. Spirit can only go Uber fast. Legion can be dangerous if used correctly. And yes, Spirit is a higher tier killer, but she can only do so much, with experience, might I add. Legion's much easier to play, plus if they didn't have that in play, people would (angery word >:( ) about Frank's Mixtape again. Even to Frank's Mixtape I say get rid of Lethal hits entirely, and make it to where you can stab multiple times without running your gauge completely down. But no. Most of Legion's supposed to be good addons need almost a complete rework UnU
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7.5 seconds from a 30 second timer, but nobody was talking here about Legion not having a cooldown I think. And you know that if you hit someone with dw while in ff you will get stunned for 4 seconds and your power gauge just goes to 0.
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Well the point is I'm assuming that the person is talking about not having a cooldown after attacking. So once again, assuming that was true, and Legion was able to repeatedly just stab somebody, without cooldown, meaning without getting any stun or anything, that addon alone would make it a problem.
But maybe I'm just misunderstanding the point of the post. Which is entirely possible. I'm aware that his power gauge will go to 0 after hitting a repeated target in his current form and all that stuff.
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That would be really broken, true. I think OP means that 50% cooldown penalty you get after hitting someone with a basic m1.
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I still don't understand the entire post based off that because he compares it to Spirit. I'll admit that I don't personally own Legion so I might be missing a detail or something but I have played almost every other killer including Spirit. I say that because I don't know why they compare the two killers when, even if Legion has a cooldown for his power after attacking, Spirit does too. Spirit has to wait until her gauge is full just like Legion. I don't know the exact numbers on the cooldown but... Even if Spirit is better she's also a 110% speed killer.
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when legion lands a normal m1, without using his power at all, his meter for his power is depleted by a chunk. This is on top of needing it to be full to use it, and some circumstances (like hitting someone with his power while theyre already under its affect) reduce it entirely to zero instantly. Since the legion's power is non-lethal, its a very nonsensical limitation, as you couldn't do something like m1 then activate FF and get a quick down.
Meanwhile, many other killers like the huntress, gunslinger, and plague can have the ability to use their power and their m1 in tandem to get very quick 2 hit downs. The spirit comparison is because her meter works similarly to a degree (needing to be 100% to activate) but she can hit a survivor with m1, then start her power as soon as the weapon wipe finishes and be able to lethally down the survivor if they are unable to escape in that short window.
It's just something that should have been changed back when the legion's power got neutered, but still hasn't been addressed.
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Legion's gauge drops by half (10 seconds) when we hit someone with M1. What happens to Spirit's gauge when she hits with M1?
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I still don't feel like it's fair to say they're that different because as I said in a previous post, Spirit is a 110% killer. A lot of her first hits, from personal experience playing as or against her, are from using her power as well. I'm not going to say she never will attack a survivor without phasing first, but often times I notice it's just easier to phase a small amount and use the brief invisibility + the brief speed boost at the end to try to get an aggressive lunge. Even if this isn't the case, you can make a lot more distance from a Spirit just holding W than against Legion when neither are using their power, because again, she's 110%.
Either way Legion excels at getting people injured in the first place, so you aren't going to want to be just regularly injuring people very often, and then switching to your power unless for some reason you want to turn on your power and run away toward a different target for whatever reason. While I can understand why not being able to do that might be frustrating, I don't see why you couldn't just go for the frenzy hit and then just do that same thing anyway, and run off after the other person.
I never really thought about it that much because I don't play Legion but while I think it's weird, I just don't think just changing that is going to do anything significant to him. I just originally commented because I assumed they meant having a cooldown after attacking with the power, and I was saying his one addon that knocks down the timer would make that idea OP just by itself.
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You land a hit with the legion, and the survivor runs to a safe pallet, or a good loop. Normally your power would be able to help you at either of those situations, but since they are already injured it loses most of its purpose, but at the very least you could use it to "bounce" off that player and instead go after others to spread pressure instead of having to put up with the time wasted by that pallet or loop. So you either have to waste time waiting for the power to come back to do so, or just commit to the bad chase and waste time and pressure trying to secure the down.
Meanwhile, even the spirit at least gets something for the former: when she gets her power back, it can be used to mindgame the pallet or loop even if they are safe, and gives her potential to actually get a down. Legion's power doesn't. So its basically a lose/lose situation, the only possible benefit you could glean from it is if its a pallet then its one less safe pallet on the map after its dealt with, thought it could easily cost you 1-3 gens in that time so its not a very big plus.
In their current state, too many things about the legion punish committing to a chase, but their rewards for changing targets are likewise too low. Their restrictions are more harsh than other killers who are already more powerful than them, and many of those same restrictions on other killers would easily drop their viability substantially. If your goal is to keep everybody injured, why would you play legion over plague? She can even use her power more effectively at loops and pallets, and you'd actually get rewarded whether they heal or not (albeit her emblems generation is still pretty bad, so she's harder to pip with in most games.)
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I understand all that, I'm just confused as to why in the situation laid out in the first paragraph, why the Legion couldn't just frenzy hit the first survivor and then run away, if they wanted to injure the person they were chasing and then "bounce" off them to go after others. I understand Spirit is still overall a more effective killer too.
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Sometimes going for the m1 to start a chase instead of using FF is the better call, especially if your FF is still on cooldown (thus making that hit extend the cooldown even longer)
If you think you can get a down due to bad positioning, a gen or totem grab attempt, using STBFL, or any other reason, you wouldn't want to start the first hit with FF. Hell sometimes the second you hit a survivor with FF they don't even try to escape, they just immediately start mending since they expect you to run away looking for someone else.
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That is explained. Legion loses connection to the Entity when in Frenzy, so they can't see auras or scratches. (I don't know why they can't see bloodstains though, that makes no sense...)
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That lore was designed for Legion 1.0 though, its yet another thing that should have been addressed with the changes they got last year. A lot of their tracking ability is far too weak for how non-lethal their ability is. On a killer like spirit, not being able to physically see a survivor makes more sense than legion not being able to follow scratch marks or even generators with how weak his power is for downing people.
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