Make Decisive More Conditional
Decisive Strike should not activate it the Survivor is picked up in the Exit Gate or from a Locker. Those two features are what make it overpowered.
If it was just 60 seconds of the Killer having to pick you up normally, I think Decisive would be completely balanced.
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Add in "Decisive Strike deactivates if another survivor is hooked while Decisive Strike is active" and you got yourself a deal.
It's not an anti-tunnel perk if it can still punish the killer for not tunneling.
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Heck I'd even settle for "If a teammate uses Decisive, all other active Decisives are deactivated"
Yes, I've been triple DS'd at the exit gates before and wanted to scream
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DS should deactivate if the survivor touches a generator. They aren't being tunneled if they can do the objective.
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And another "How to make DS trash"-Thread. Pretty good job so far.
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decisive being 60 seconds god mode, that's the problem, it has failed its original anti-tunneling purpose.
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Or give Decisive the same effect but give it a condition like Second Wind or Deliverance. So you have to earn it instead of just passively having it
Like you have to save or take a protection hit for the Obsession. With DS reducing your odds of being the obsession at the start
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Yeah it just needs to deactivate once a survivor does a genny. That's it. Its 80 seconds to do a genny. 60 seconds of that shouldn't be for free.
If your doing a genny you are not being tunneled.
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Pretty much. Some killers are so intent on tunneling they’ll wait outside the locker for 60 seconds or eat the stun.
I’ve said it before but if people are finding DS this much of an issue then they’re tunneling. DS rarely affects me because I usually chase other survivors.
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Its not tunneling if you get away, I down someone else, you're on a gen or waiting for unhook and then I down you.
60 seconds is a lot of time in this game
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How is this mentioned so often as "solution"? Here's a super common situation:
Camper/tunneler catches a survivor early enough, hitting him once before unhook, once after. Then goes for the tunnel and downs the second survivor. Goes back to the first one, hooks him, DS cancelled. This change would make DS kinda useless in many situations.
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So the killer downs the unhooker and leaves them to be healed while chasing down the person who was unhooked instead of getting a guaranteed hook?
I mean.... I guess if they don't like getting hooks...
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u shouldnt be farming a survivor if u cant save or dont have BT. if saver had BT then ur application doesnt apply.
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Might happen on super quickly reacting teams. As I said, this is a common situation and downing the second survivor is not necessarily taking 30 seconds. As well, hooking the unhooker cancels DS as well, having scratchmarks still lit to go for the tunnel
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Don't you dare suggest that 60s full immunity perk isn't balanced. Survivor mains will tear you apart.
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You shoudln't, right. Happens anyway. DS is meant to help on that as well. You can't control what your teammates do. And BT only lasts for 15 seconds, or depending on the killer or perks (for example Huntress or STBFL) or the area where someone is hooked, you can still down pretty quickly. Or take a look at my response to Tarvesh: "As well, hooking the unhooker cancels DS as well, having scratchmarks still lit to go for the tunnel"
You can argue that it is difficult, still the above is super common and DS would be cancelled in the majority of cases, if the killer plays it correctly. Sure it can help in some situations, but I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of frustration, when this would be the final call to DS to make it balanced, and turns out to be that easy to counter
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Honestly, I've encountered it more after already having done another chase than finding them again.
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Are you joking? I've had teams where I manage to down 2, hook them, find the 3rd but eat a DS. Am I tunneling in this case? Must be since I got DS'ed despite hooking 2 other players before going to get the final one.
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Nah it should have a shorter timer which stops during a chase and when downed, so it would really punish tunnelers without being abusable.
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I have said the same, but someone made a fair point - the Killer can just moonwalk/look away (like old Legion).
Otherwise, I 100% agree, neither should I need to jump a locker because my DS is going to expire and the Killer is chasing me for almost a full minute (which is tunneling) nor should the Killer get a free hook, just because he slugged me right off the hook (which is also tunneling).
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What if i end up hooking another survivor and that survivor with ds unhooks infront of my face i pick them up and boom ds so they saved their teammate and punished me for "tunneling"...
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Right, I forgot about moonwalking. It could stop in killer's proximity though, that could be harder to abuse.
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but again that isnt tunneling if ur team farms u, other then NoED killers arent rewarded for bad plays unlike survivors. survivors are stacked with seconda chance perks while killers only have 1 which can be taken out before it can be used.
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So you after hooking that guy, you downed 2 and hooked them in less than 1 min? taking 5 sec stun it shlould be nothing then..
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And while they take those two strats away, please also allow survivors who are slugged to auto-unbreakable after a certain amount of seconds, because that is apparently also being abused.
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There's probably a million and one different conditions that should deactivate DS. Off the top of my head:
-survivor touches gen
-killer downs a separate survivor (an injured team mate shouldn't be saving you without BT right in front of the killer's face anyway)
-killer chases a different survivor for at least X seconds (maybe 20? 30?)
-another team mate activates/uses DS
-survivor with DS heals all the way up to healthy again
I'm not saying every one of these is completely healthy to add on as deactivation condition. More like, if any of these things happen, or some other things that I didn't list, then I would say the killer isn't tunneling. A killer shouldn't be chasing for a long time/downing another survivor, and the survivor shouldn't be getting on a gen/getting healed all the way back to healthy and another survivor shouldn't be using DS. All those things don't happen when somebody is getting tunneled off hook.
Note, the only reason I say this is because BHVR are touting it as an "anti tunneling" perk. I feel like that's just utterly false with how it has no condition other than getting off the hook, and lasts for 60 whole seconds and can be run by multiple survivors.
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But you spend a perk to be safe to tunneling. Are you currently saying that this is not tunneling? I know it is bad survivor play, but I think the perk should protect a survivor from that situation as well.
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in the example in which u gave, no thats not tunneling. BUT someone camping then only targetting the unhooked person is tunneling and thats why theres DS.
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It actually kind of is tunneling. There are still 2 more survivors you know.
And if you caught someone else and find this person again SLUG THEM. It's not rocket science.
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Slug or keep track of who's been unhooked. I don't even remember the last time I've been hit with DS.
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Ds should desactivate if you:
-Cleanse a totem.
-Repair a gen
-Heal other
-Killer hook another player
-Any killer belonging like clock, cleansing fountain, trap etc...
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So it's not tunneling when the killer just accepts the double down? Don't know but that POV sounds like killer main. Not pointing at you, but I'm pretty sure everyone on the hook will say something different
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This use of DS as an agressive perk instead of a defensive perk must be gonne. Its to avoid the killer going after the unhooked (wich is not tunnel), not to make the unhooked save the unhooker getting in front of the killer to stun him on purpose during EGC near to a Exit Gate...
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This is a big fat no, and would break the perk.
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That’s the point. That’s really why they want that change. So they can sit around the hook still and not be delayed in their tunneling by DS.
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U don't know how many survivors can do the most toxic plays with ds it doesn't even have to be tunneling for them to get it off. U haven't seen the diliverence and ds plays at end game when doors are open or going for another save while ds is up.
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I completely agree with u. That have about 60 secs to do a gen after being hooked and if we hit them u could try to slug but they might have unbreakable or team around.
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How are you going to be mad at a deliverance/ds play? For that to even work, their end-game hook has to be their first hook of the match. I wouldn't want to die on first hook in end-game either. 🤷
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Make ds deactivate when
The survivor enters a locker
Works on a gen
Gets healed
Another person gets hooked
then it could actually be a fair perk
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So I should let the surv get a free escape because they played poorly?Also what about end game where slugging is not an option?
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The arguments here seem to be about whether or not DS should be able to be used offensively. Personally, I do not think it should.
If it should be a defensive perk only then something needs to be changed. Though, with how many arguments this one perk has caused perhaps it should be changed into something completely different.
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no its not tunneling when a killer chases a survivor in for the hook save and the killer downs the unhooker then downs the saved survivor.
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Still thinking that DS should work in this case
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Interesting idea. Also if you healed and/or work on a gen it should deactivate.
DS is such braindead perk, even when I use it, I keep shaking my head how it progs.
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You mean it would make it balanced instead of OP.
Right now it's braindead 60 seconds of very abusable immunity. Maybe that's why you're so vehemently against the change... But it's not an anti tunnel perk as it is. It's just free time.
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You're not being tunneled if someone else was hooked after you were unhooked. You need to learn your terms.
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Learn terms... noone uses tunneling correctly, everyone yells tunneler when he just doesn't want to be hooked right in that moment.
Tunneling isn't even hooking someone twice really fast. Tunneling is getting the death hook as soon as possible to get someone out of the game. And the "out of the game" is the critical part to call something tunneling, as well as the fact that killers dodge other survivors and ignore free hits or targets, just to get the other one killed ("tunnel vision", ignoring everything else). Hooking someone the second time, even off the hook, is no tunneling yet. If someone loves to do gens in my face injured, I'm happy to put him on death hook just to tell him "maybe play more stealthy or cautious from now on, or you die". Don't care if he accuses me tunneling then.
And as I said in my last comment, tunneling or not, DS should work in this case. If someone throws his body on the hook for free so that the killer has enough time to go after me again, I still just got off the hook being injuired, no time to heal, no time to hide. Not calling it tunneling
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Man, you are seriously trying to make that definition work for your argument. You need it to fit that exact scenario so that you can be correct.
LEt's say you are. DS should still deactivate. The person unhooking you right in the killer's face is to blame for the easy hook and follow-up chase. You weren't tunneled because the killer took the time to down someone else, then hook that person.
Congrats they didn't ignore the injured person and go straight for you. They downed and hooked that person, then went back after someone who is already injure instead of hunting a healthy survivor whose location is a mystery.
If you play killer, then you know that killers CHOOOSE not to get free hits because they know it's can be used as a distraction and a means to slow them down.
You've tried to warp the term to fit your narrative, but even then it didn't work.
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this is were survivor mains and killer mains disagree, you like most survivor mains believe deserve a second chance for ur bad plays. killers have 1 perk that rewards them for playing bad and that can be taken out before it can even be a option.
im all for DS working as an anti-tunneling perk, id even make the time unlimited untill someone else is hooked or that person starts working on a gen because @ that point the killer isnt tunneling said person.
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so u think that DS should work in ur example when someone farms a teammate when the killers there downs then both hooks the other dude the the 1st hooked dude DS's the killer and saves dude #2 and get DS'ed by that dude??
ur ok with the killer get stunned back to back for doing nothing wrong what so ever?
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What are you flailing around now? I'm not trying to fit anything, and I even said the term isn't even related to my opinion. Dude, I even heard people call it tunneling when they commit to a chase on someone that has not been hooked yet. People are yelling tunnel when they don't know what to blame else. If you go for me like this then have a nice day. Not worth the energy.
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