General Discussions
General Discussions
Marth displays how the new ironworks loop has been buffed
In the above video Marth shows how the new ironworks in the PTB has been buffed with you losing chase 3/4 times making the loop a literal infinite.
Comments
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laughable 🙄
was this even tested before PTB?
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And they said adding a door there will fix the problem...
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This is just sad.
After 4 years the devs still don't understand their game.
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This better be addressed. Even a simple change like swapping the position of the door and window would probably fix this without completely killing the window.
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That would absolutely kill the window.
It would be faster to go through the door lmao
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I haven't played the PTB, but you can easily prevent this by going the other way (I think I don't know)
but this is a great issue that the chase ends at this loop now
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Was thinking the same thing. Should probably just go the other way.
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If you removed the obstacle by where the doorway currently is, the window would still be plenty viable, especially as a launcher for lithe.
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They didn't mention removing the obstacle. That would be interesting then.
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yep so now i know i just have to go w+shift straight so the other side of the map if the killer don't go throught the door and loose chase thx
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They need to add the door before the vault. On the left side.
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TBH the obstacle was there to try to make the original window a bit weaker since it could only be fast vaulted from one direction. Videos like the one marth made are exactly why PTBs are supposed to be used to test these things, so they can gather that data and make changes accordingly. I can tell you from experience that playtesting your own game is one of the most mindnumbing things you can imagine, and its very easy to have design oversights that other people might find instantly.
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Marth tested the both ways, but you lose the chase in both cases and thus it becomes an infinite. The only time it didn't become an infinite was when vaulting the window into inside.
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so it's basicly an actual infinite or a god loop that you can vault from 3 to 5 time nice, they did a good job on most map but some are big flaw still (for survivor ad killer like the pallet dissapearence wich is most likely a bug)
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Marth was never known for being smart. It wasnt buffed its just a bug when you lose a chase.
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Door is on the wrong side. The loop is way too safe but I wouldn't call it a buff since the loop is smaller.
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But clockwise the window got blocked...
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This! 100%.
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And yet it bought tons of time, was not mindgamable, and gave the survivor good distance to find another loop.
The issue with god loops was never about them being infinites, it was about them being a completely free timewaster. While the one direction being a literal infinite is definitely worse, the purpose of the loop changes was to remove things like the clockwise version to be possible without the killer gaining considerable ground.
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Not free timewaster. Plenty of killers can counter such loop by using their power.
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sure they can. I'll have to remember to bing bong into loops like that. or maybe I should use FF as legion so that i can get that first hit, have it never bleed because they never leave the TR, and then continue to get run around the loop until it eventually (possibly) entity blocks. Or maybe bubba should use his super fast movement speed buff while revving his chainsaw to shut it down? Pig can take a speed decrease and a startup time to use her dash attack to maybe reach a quarter of the way around the loop? Billy should be able to curve it if he has a sensitivity of 9000 maybe? I could go on, but I think you get the point.
SOME killers can use their powers to counter loops like that, but the ones that can generally either have 110 movement speed (this test was done with a normal 115, btw) or they have to waste their time to counter it (like trapper) or sometimes even both (like the hag.) The only killers who could reliably counter a loop like that with their power are the nurse (for obvious reasons,) the spirit would be able to at least make it mindgamable, and freddy/clown/doctor would be able to reduce the power of the loop. The reason these changes are being made isn't because the second group exists, but because the first one does.
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Tell me why you should be able to reliably counter the strongest loop of survivors?
But the way that loop is changed right now is good.
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If they adjust some of the boxes on the outside of the window and remove that... spool thingy by the front door I think that could fix it. It could be a semi-infinite running clockwise, but then you can force a slow vault running counter-clockwise.
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Because a loop that relies on just a window can be used infinite times, the only restriction is a very temporary one that only affects a single survivor.
Compare it to the killer shack, where it starts off incredibly strong, but gets MUCH weaker once the pallet is used. Loops like the one in this video can buy considerable time when one survivor uses it, then if they buy enough time and come back to it, their progress is reset entirely and they're free to loop it again. Not only that, all 4 survivors can take advantage of it in as many chases as they want.
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This is why the entity blocker should still block windows even when not in chase
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It needs another wall to be broken in between that loop.
There's already a pallet, there's not excuse NOT to add another broken wall, or even a breakable wall in between.
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Just bring Bamboozle
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I thought about how that loop looked like now, and seeing where the open door is for the window, PLUS the removal of the objects you had to go around on the corner, I figured this wouldn't be good. Didn't realize it was enough to lose chase though!
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Ah, why didnt Killers think of that. Just always add in Bamboozle so Devs dont have to try to fix these loop.
I dont know why Devs put hard work on re-work balance here. I think adding a feature that window wall collapsed after fast vault 3 times will fix all of these (also tracktors windows). These door/window rework and breakable wall arent necessary.
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it took the 2nd page to get there, but i knew someone was gonna spout this nonsense
yes let's run bamboozle in anticipation to block 1 window on 1 map variant out of 30
brilliant survivor logic
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I don't remember seeing him go from the other side of the wall, as in chasing the survivor through the pallet to the vault, no matter what this looks like it should be a rust vault or a down by swinging at the vault due to the survivor attempting a fast vault.
You also he was playing Billy here and not using his chainsaw, all the killers have powers that make this vault less safe, Trapper can trap the vault, wraith can speed around the corner, Billy can use his chainsaw to either hit the survivor or make it to the vault to block it, nurse can blink, doc can completely prevent the vault overall, Hag can use her traps here, Legion can Legion, Freddy's snares should cause rust vaults only, Huntress and Deathslinger can cut this loop down easily, Clown causes rust vaults, Oni is a speedy boi and can body block the window or just down the survivor, Michael can just tier 3 and have faster vaults and a longer lunge.
The only killer that would have an issue at this vault is Bubba, as his power doesn't help him here at all.
Like none of you guys noticed in my original message, I said "but this is a great issue that the chase ends at this loop now".
Rust Vaults are the same as Medium vaults or fast vaults but slow and loud.
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I'm gonna feel so bad for Marth if Mcclean pops in here and says "we never claimed it was balanced". I'm used to people like @Reborn2020 being so blatantly biased that they can stand in the face of pure fact and still try to spin it to match their screwed up agenda, but it's soul crushing when somebody who's supposed to be in charge of balance says something so stupid.
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Then Wraith would be exploitable
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DEVS are only joking with us, IT would be so great to be true... How bad
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Pure fact of what? That its an intentional buff?
So you call it a buff?You only making yourself look stupid.
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I think chase being dropped when approaching that loop.
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After rewatching it, he played as a M1 only powerless killer
This is why this loop was an infinite, killers have a power for a reason.
He also messed up this loop a few times by running into walls
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On the contrary, the fact he did not use a power with a normal speed Killer makes it objective. Sure, a Clown or Freddy makes this more tolerable. But what about LF, Legion, Plague (no Corrupt Purge), GF, Myers (with or without T3) and any other future Killer they add with similar limitations (powers that dont down/boost speed)? They have to suck up an infinite due to faulty chase mechanics?
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Legion is able to frenzy infront of the survivor and block off the window, preventing the vault
Plague, Bubba, and GhostFace are the ones who need to get the jump on them, he also seemingly had some weird places for the start of them which confused me on why no other location was tested, like further or closer
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So, basically bodyblocking them from a position that is not really under your control as well as enduring a cooldown that lets them reach the pallet that spawns on the outside of the wall (or any other tile for that matter).
Im not even going to bother commenting on "Killers who need to get the jump on Survivors".
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i said it was a pointless update the second the image of it was leaked... but no, everyone lost their minds instead of thinking about the lay out and gave them praise...
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Like I mentioned near the beginning of this thread, this is a great issue and I am not defending this in anyway
What I mean is that those killers need to be able to push the survivor away from the loop, GF is incredibly good at this as his power makes him harder to track than Plague and Bubba, who have 2 big issues with dealing with this.
Plague with her power removes this loop, which is why you removed her off the list on this, but however this loop seems to only be an infinite when the survivor has made a huge distance between them and the killer, hence why he hit the survivor.
So for example, if Bubba is chasing a survivor here when they both are close, he will be capable of downing them, while if they made distance between each other it becomes a threat, however in the same video he showed that this is able to be blocked off by vaulting the window on a different side, so really all this video showed is that if the killer makes a mistake it can cost them the game.
Due to this being on the PTB, this can be changed in the live build, and don't even try to throw that "Devs won't do anything to the live build from the PTB build" nonsense, DeathSlinger's PTB they changed shacks Breakable wall.
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They got praise because it's a step in the right direction. You don't encourage change by being negative.
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They made a literal infinite on mothers dwelling, in an update that was supposed to remove "infinites" or god loops. There is something wrong with their map guy if he can't fix something that is easy to do.
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That was immediately confirmed to be a bug. All it takes is a single conditional check to cause something like that to happen, especially considering the procedural generation thats used for tiles. They keep a section of "known bugs" in regards to PTBs for a reason, theyre not intentional changes and will be fixed with the next commit.
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Is it live?
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i watch the whole video, and im 100% agree with him..
he said this loop is broken, also in other 3 maps window become so weak and easy hits for killers
i hope devs watch his video and fix these 4 maps
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Well, it is sad to see that anfix just made a god loop into an infinate, but I will continue to hope that they find a way to fix this.
If this gets into the live servers though...
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Proves again this game is all survivor sided. They only want things to look as if it gets changed.
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