Unpopular opinion: Camping isn't real.
I've seen quite a few posts recently about camping and I'm here to say that camping doesn't exist, at least not the way everyone describes it. Camping (with very few exceptions) is simply a deadlock between killer's and survivors that both sides love to complain about and gave a name. I'm not saying it's not an issue, but it's a lot more than "Killer's camp because they're bad" like everyone tries to claim
Camping, as it is today, is usually described as a killer hanging around a hook with a survivor on it to deny saves, which has a small truth to it, but the main reason killers camp isn't because they're afraid of losing their catch, they're capitalizing on the fact that some players (and most SWFs) will immediately swarm the hook to save their fellow survivor. It became a thing of "Why should I leave and go find survivors if they'll all come to me?" Rushing a hook gives the killer hits, information, and a chase. If you want a killer not to camp, avoid BMing (the one true case of camping with the killer doing it solely to not let you escape) and let the survivor hang for a bit. Punish the killer by doing gens and objectives. They have 60 seconds, the killer will realize quickly they're losing precious time and start immediately moving after hooking. A full organized squad (with a player hooked) can do 180s of gen time all up if they work on different gens before a hook state is lost, 150 if one leaves around 30s to go for unhook. That's almost 2 full gens completed in a single hook state.Assuming every survivor takes 10 seconds to start a gen after hooking, that's still a gen and a half of progress. That's also ignoring toolboxes.
Ultimately, the one group that complains about camping (survivors, for obvious reasons why) are the one's at fault for camping. If they used hook time more effectively to punish camping, stopped rushing (and abusing BT), and the like, killer's would learn camping is not worth it anymore. Of course, this would require a large part of the survivor base to stop, which will most likely never happen, and take time for killers to learn.
TL;DR: Dev's won't punish camping because the survivors already can, they're just too lazy to and expect it to be automatic. They than proceed to cause camping and then blame killers for doing it despite not being willing to stop causing it.
TL;DR TL;DR: Survivors: I shot myself in the foot, but it's the person who made the gun's fault. Now watch me do it again.
Comments
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So camping is not real because it can be punished by survivors?
It is still camping.
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Camping isn't real in the way everyone describes it, which is something killers do just to ######### with survivors.
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Well I mean yeah, your first TL:DR is correct, but camping definitely exists, and many killers do it solely to tilt survivors
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It is a strategy, everbody probably knows. But it stays camping and most considere it a dirty way to play. Nothing new here.
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Of course it can be countered.
THIS can be countered right?
Explain to me how my team, 3 had Borrowed Time could have countered an Insidious FaceCamping Bubba.
Please, explain this to me. Keep in mind, Bubba can still activate Insidious while holding M2.
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You say it doesn't exist, then you're whole post is about what would cause camping, how it should be countered etc.
That's a whole lot of words for something that doesn't exist.
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Camping IS most definitely a thing. It is NOT survivor's fault. This perfect description you have laid out is NOT realistic in the majority of matches. Especially against with random teams, which is the majority of survivor teams. 🙄
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They do generators, one unhooks you so you can either use DS to go on a new chase or help do generators if he camps your rescuer. Three Escapes, one Kill, probably a depip for everyone involved.
If they can bait out a chainsaw rampage and unhook during the cooldown while he has a Terror Radius or you all trade hooks fast enough so that both rescuer and rescuee have DS active you might even be able to get everyone out with a safety pip or better.
Granted if you aren't on comms this becomes almost impossible to communicate, but that's how you can counter this.
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Not really a counter.
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Seemingly "random" camping certainly does exist and it can be for a variety of reasons. Might be a killer that doesn't know it can make them lose because they come from lower ranks, someone genuinely "playing for salt" or some sort of personal grudge against the player or other reasons for that matter. Just because it can be punished and countered doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it doesn't seem like that's what you're talking about.
I do agree that people throw a lot of terms around when they don't make any sense though.
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Yes it can!
They do gens and the killer gets a 1k.
This is a team based game, so think of it as you're taking one for the team.
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I mean, it saves at least 3 of the Survivors and can potentially save all 4.
I think counter is an apt description. Would you prefer I call it a soft counter instead?
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While camping does exist, both TLDR are absolutely correct tho.
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It's a slim chance, at best, that it would result the way you are describing and that chance is closing soon. LoL
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False.
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Titling this post "Camping isn't real" is misleading. You even admit that camping is real in the first sentence of your post. "Camping is caused by Survivors" or "Camping isn't a problem" would be much more reflective of your thoughts on the subject.
I don't know what else I can say besides that you're wrong about camping being under the control of Survivors and that you're totally neglecting to look at camping from the side of solo queue Survivors or from the side of people who don't just want to hold M1 and hit skillchecks for fun.
People will camp regardless of whether the other players dive bomb the hooked person or not. It fully exists and plenty of people just camp because they can/want to.
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Don't try to make a reasonable claim that there are times where camping at the current state the match is in, is the best strategy to use. Survivors hate the idea that camping in any form is anything else besides toxic BM. It's like talking to a wall.
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It's not a team-based game. You can cooperate or play selfish, the only thing you can't do is to grief your teammates. But it's not team-based, even though a lot of stuff in the game requires teamwork to be countered. That's why soloQs are weak.
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What of it?
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Everytime someone says “iTz sUrViVorZ FaUlT, JuSt d0 G3nZ” lets look at how that works shall we?
Survivor 1: Sits there watching rather than playing. Paid for the game, queues for 6-7 mins just to watch their character on hook immobilised. Has to mash space bar for 60 seconds despite having no fun and not being able to play a full game, likely to give up on hook early
Survivors 2,3,4: All hold M1 on gens unopposed. They know the killer is camping so they all hold M1 on gens unopposed. No suspense, no fear, no danger. No chance of having a chase, denied points in all other categories.
Killer: Stares at a character on a hook. Waiting, waiting, waiting for someone else to come.
Do you not see how the game falls apart with camping? Nobody has fun. Hence why it needs more of a fix than just asking 1 person to play an immobilized character for the full 2 minutes and asking the rest to hold M1 for that duration.
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Now let's look at the current situation:
Killer camps the hook. Noone working on gens, just swarming the hook, trying desperately to unhook the survivor, most likely just giving a lot of free hits and hook exchanges to the killer. No gen progression, survivors and killer get a lot of points and most likely pip from that, because they all progress in at least half of their emblems.
Then, finally someone dies or survivors manage to solve the situation, having one dead or like 3-4 hooks spread on survivors. 1 minute later the same starts again, most likely with maybe half a gen progress in the meantime or even one gen, and the next unhooking party definitely causing another death, making it almost impossible to finish the last 3 gens with 2 people, heading for the hatch escape. Still everyone claiming to have a crap game because "c4mPIn9 5uxX", only the killer having fun because he gets all he wants: points, kills, pips and an ez game (and probably salt).
So how about eating the crap game once in a while, leaving the killer on a boring crappy game as well while staring at the only survivor he will ever see. And probably letting him face this situation over and over again, so he notices that camping doesn't work anymore, forcing him to play differently. Would solve at least most of the camping issues over time.
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I'm pretty sure devs have even mentioned camping and being camped.
Also if someone gets camped in my SWF we work on gens instead of get 1 other survivor back that is being camped
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Depending on the killer (wouldn't work against insta downers) it sometimes makes sense. Go in for the save with BT to get the hook exchange, so noone is on death hook for another minute. But that really works with SWF to be precise and efficient enough
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Camping is super real. It doesn't impact SWF, who can communicate they are being camped, but it hurts solo Q the most. Every single survivor needs to go to the hook to confirm the camping. And then most people will still attempt the save anyways, giving the killer more free downs. It is especially bad on stealth killers using mori's, who can just smack you straight off the hook and ignore BT / DS.
"Just rush gens and let your team die", then I depip. This has been brought up multiple times.
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The points/pip system penalizes survivors for not unhooking. Also theres general human decency in not expecting another human being to spend 2 mins playing hook sim after waiting 7 minutes just to get a game. Some killers are so scummy though they prey on human deceny.
I like how once again you’re so determined to defend your side that you want it left as it is, even though as explained its bad for the games health and ruins the game for a lot of people.
Also once in a while? Lol its the majority of games. If it was once in a while it wouldnt be an issue but these days it seems like 9 out of 10 killers will always stay within a fairly close proximity to the hook.
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Now the counterpoint is that some of these killers are supposed to be really evil.
But they should really just increase the gen times and do it how deathgarden did, you get on the hook, and get re-spawned on some random part of the map. That would require an entire game rework, but it was the only good part of deathgarden. Camping is too easy with 1 shot killers, and requires some pretty cold survivors to deal with it properly.
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1st, Yeah right. What I said, but the other half. Unhooking gives everyone the points. Killer as well. But you miss commenting the part where I said, survivors still hate the match while the killer is having pretty much fun
2nd It is not my side. Nice to see another instance of predicting bias go wrong. When I play survivor, I do exactly the above. Noticing the camp, I do gens. Especially when I see others around already. On SWF, we communicate to do gens. When on the hook, I'm hangin there for full 2 minutes, hoping the others get gens done. Also hoping they understand the hook gymnastics as it was in the early days. I don't kobe into the killer's face and give up.
3rd Not my experience. More like 50% on bad days, otherwise less. And as I said: survivor behaviour is triggering that. When playing killer and noticing the first 2-3 unhooks are instant and I still haven't seen the Bill yet, I'm searching for the Bill near the hook on 4th hook. 80% of the time I find him. Other killers "learn" doing so from the first hook and just expect it. Keep on going for rage unhooks and killers keep on camping
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Yeah, I'll just leave this right here.
ttps://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/143300/leather-face-camp#latest
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There is 100% killers who camp no matter the situation but I also agree that there are plenty of times where I've gotten the "OMG STOP CAMPING NOOB GIT GUD!!!!1!1" messages when every time I hooked someone, I'd get about 10 steps away before they were unhooked.
I do my best to not camp (or tunnel) but I'm also not going to just turn a blind eye to survivors doing incredibly stupid tactics like unhooking when I'm standing right there...
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You cannot punish camping as survivor. Also killers do not camp cause they think some survivors will come to them, they camp cause theyre #########. Dont spread lies disguised as "unpopular opinion".
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It seems like rank means more to some survivors than punishing that which they apparently hate. I've been on these forums only a handful of days and all I see is a bunch of pointless arguments, with the odd bit of logic in the occasional post.
Tell me, other than "bragging rights" (although I wouldn't really call it that with all the trash in survivor red ranks), what does rank get you? Genuine question as I don't know if there is some reward for being/staying red rank.
Personally, if I have to suffer a little to see righteous justice done then so be it.
For the record, I just dropped back to rank 5 survivor after 3 matches of being camped from very early on. Big deal. I stayed on the hook all the way in each trial, not for the survivors but to spit in the face of the killer (with very little effort involved). Currently rank 11 on killer. Also, another toxic survivor came to my YT channel a few days back to tell me I'd never progress past survivor rank 12. SMH. These are the people I'm supposed to help? LOL, they can stay on the hook.
Full-on camper-tunnelers will never change no matter what adjustments are made to BP and rank rewards and I've not seen anybody put forward a logical solution for the devs thus far. I really can't take people seriously when they spend more energy arguing than they do trying to help the situation.
"For the greater good."
"Actions speak louder than words."
TL;DR - 70/30 survivor/killer who believes it's down to the survivors to curb this behaviour, because camper-tunnelers won't be dissuaded by trivial things like BP and rank drops. What else do you propose?
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As someone who was LEGITIMATLEY FACECAMPED out of their first game, you are objectively wrong.
The only time that camping doesn't exist is when you literally just hooked someone and you're trying to find the other guy you KNOW is near by. That is a tactical situation that requires thag "playstyle" or "tactic".
Yes, there are situations where is it caused by survivors, but a majority of recent camping cases are purely toxic killers or those who are insecure about their abilities since the Ruin rework.
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