Solos don't need a buff, but SWFs finally need a NERF!
Let me tell you this as i play 50/50 (Killer and solo) in red ranks. You don't want to adjust solo experience to be as "easy" as SWFs. Most good solos players are fine because the game is actually balanced arround solo play, as it was intended to be anyway from the start.
SWFs just need a little action debuff (for healing and genspeed) per SWF in a group to balance their advantage of using comms. Also killers dont need to know if there going against a SWFs at the start, cause most them would most likely dogde. But as same with RUINED ask yourself WHY they would dogde and balance arround that. That beeing said it would be nice to have this information AFTER the game as a little SWF marker in the endscreen.
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I think SWF should be reduced to using 2 perks tbh, I have been playing with my 3 friends perkless for the past week and we do completely fine.
Considering SWF is basically build in Kindred / Bond / Aftercare / and more
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"as it was intended to be anyway from the start"
Oh look, someone else who thinks that SWF was never planned.
A Debuff to Healing and Genspeed would not make sense. This would also hurt Solo players, if I am playing Solo with 3 man-SWF, they would all be slow on Gens (and not the usual "not doing Gens", but actually slow when workingon them) and be slow when healing me. So while playing Solo I would have the same disadvantages.
Besides that, the idea of buffing Solos to SWF-Level is to buff Killers accordingly.
Let alone that Killer-gameplay is not as bad as people claim it to be...
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What swf do u play against or with its usually borrow, DS, deadhard/sprint burst, adrenaline. Let me find swf with with those perks
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Im sorry but I dont quite understand what you are asking of me
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Call it action-debuff or give them less second chance perks.
If you not agree with this you're just saying it's ok that SWFs will always have an advantage as aura perks like kindred will never be basekit for solos. Change my mind.
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I'd rather the killer be rewarded with more BP or something for playing a SWF match. Survivors hold m1 to repair gens long enough, it doesn't need to be any longer. Not every match is a SWF death squad that end the game in 5 minutes. a lot of SWF groups are just there to screw around. I know that's what me and my friends do when we play in a 4-man. It's rare that more than 2 of us escape most of the time because we all mess around with head on and go for dumb sabo plays etc (Or we're all drunk, or both lmao). If you really wanted to give the killer an advantage against a pre-made, make bloodlust gain twice as fast maybe, or make the first bloodlust tier increase the killer's speed by 7.5% instead of the usual 5%.
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No matter if it'd be balanced mechanical debuffs like action speed decrease would feel like punishment and disincentivization of party play, and that's in direct conflict with the firmly established expectation of being able to play and talk to other people without such handicaps in multiplayer gaming in general. In other words don't think a change like this has any chance of ever being implemented.
Stuff like SWF indicators before/after games, BP/XP bonuses or whatever and base game changes (this is where the "buff solos and killers" approach lies) at least have a non-zero probability of even being considered by the devs.
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I like your ideea,this should be the case since its so easy to abuse sfw,really hope devs will finally adress this problem soon.The only people that are againts this are probably just entitled survivors that love having unfair advantages over killers and love exploiting stuff.
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i play solo a decent amount at rank 1-2
if you nerf SWF speeds, it will make my life even more of a living hell as it will make me have to do even more work without the comms to back it up.
Give Survivors HUD icons showing what people are doing, like obsession claws when chasing and it will be a nice start
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Giving us solos even more information won't solve the advantage from survivors on comms. Even if they say "we just mess arround and want to have fun", they play it in a competive way as the 1 or 2 other survivors not having fun (aka doing gens) because they're free to do it, as they're mates tell them they keeping the killer busy. Also can't you see the fact that solos actually are getting hurt from SWFs aswell? Like if they bring in a key and toolboxes, how do you think most killers will react? That's right, they're going to bring a mori aswell. Action - Reaction. Not counting the games when i'm pretty sure we all 4 were solo and killers play super unfair. Think about what happend to them in the last rounds. And that's why SWFs not are just poison for any killer, but us solos aswell. No matter what there intentions are.
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I agree that there should be reward for vs SWF, not nerfing. May be bonus Iridescent Shards
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Yes, a SWF reveal on the end-game scoreboard should definitely be added.
As for the rest, I dont know. The devs are thinking about it too though of course
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It would be nice. Can't be before the match cause then killers would dodge.
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Well, it's obvious who you watch.
People only want a UI on the scoreboard so they can feed their own ego if they happen to beat that team. "This was a 4-man swf, and I just 4k'd...blah blah blah." I don't happen to like arrogant people, and this would just spike that mentality even more in this game (even though the amount of fat-heads that play this game is high already).
I will also say this, solo survivors are the most boring thing to vs as killer. Majority of the time they are all immersed; so slap on a debuff for the swf they get paired with, and you'll have matches where a solo does not want to be found, ever, just in case their teammates are swf and will take forever to do gens and heal them far longer than usual. Plus, considering that co-op repair times are taking a hit in the next update, do you really think it's necessary to debuff anything more? I couldn't care less about swf, they are very rare to go against, and most of the time they are the most interactive players to vs. Always doing something, which means you're never having moments after a hook where literally none of the other 3 are doing anything. The issue is that people just treat this game way too competitvely, even if I get zero kills vs a 4-man, I usually get at least 24k bp anyway, so I don't care. Swf aren't the thing killing this game for players, Solo survivor is, majority of them are so dull to vs. That, and the current killer mentalities of "slowdowns are needed to have proper matches." That fun-sponge attitude is also killing the enjoyment dbd has. So instead of nerfing swf, the devs need to make a new meta for the dull killer players and make immersive playstyes harder to get anything out of. It's so easy to get a lot of points and pip even if the killer never finds you the entire match. Boring.
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@Katzengott the Mori thing is not an SWF problem, also randoms bring items. And I don't get your response to @Aven_Fallen . In your OP you say SWF needs debuff and then you say SWF advantage is built in Kindred?
Beside that, I DO think that buffing solo would be the better way. If you run Bond and Kindred, you see pretty often how inefficent solos are. Getting a bit more and precise information or ingame communication like the map marker or flashlights as basekit, would definitely help out a bit. There's nothing worse than seeing 3 survivors crouching around your hook or being chased by the killer and seeing one aura of a crouching survivor after one, not even near a gen.
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impossible.
The issue isn't the SWF button, but comms. And it is possible to get comms without SWF and to not have comms with SWF.
The only reason you don't see people trying to set up comms in solo que, is because SWF exists and it's easier to just use that so there is no point. However, once there is an objective advantage to using solo que, people will go there to set up comms with no penalty.
We know this is the case because people actually did it prior to SWF being an option in the first place.
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Solo should get the option to send messages instead of geting everything spoonfed by the UI.
While it often looks like comms enable info "for free" , it's still in the survivors hands IF to send such info. While comms also enable realtime strategy, it's not instaneous as UI-Icons or Aura like free bond.
(Free aura reading for survivors would imo be the most broken addition)
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“Game is actually balanced around solo play”
Killer vs 4 solos is advantage killer, come on. If you’re going to argue to nerf SWF, then this at least needs to be acknowledged. It’s going to be even expanded further with the upcoming patch. A balanced game currently lies somewhere in the middle, a mixed lobby of solo and SWF. Hypothetically, if the devs removed SWF today, this game would absolutely be killer sided. I don’t see how people can even argue that. So yeah, solo players should be getting buffs (not just perk buffs) if you want to nerf SWF.
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I'm all for this fix. Or maybe per SWF killer gets another perk? Honestly killers need at least 5 perk slots anyways because why does the single player have the same amount of perks as the x4 on the other side? It's just dumb to be an asymmetric game and try and force so much symmetry.
OP I don't think it's wise to bring SWF down to solo as that will cause more problems down the line. Solo should be matched with SWF power levels and then buff all killers accordingly and design the game around 1 type of survivor instead of 2 virtually different games (solo vs SWF)
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Right....
Except you cant nerf the parts of swf you want nerfed without ruining the game for solo, or for people who just want to play with friends. And that's information/voice.
So the only thing you CAN do, is balance and buff ALL killers to compete with swf, and THEN BUFF solo to match.
Nerfing swf would do nothing to help solo players, and piss off people who arent sweaty try hard because they're penalized for playing with friends.
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It was a joke I was basically saying that we go against a whole different survivors everyrime because all i see is the perks I listed before almost every killer game.
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Right. I guess that's why in-game communication is so frequently used... oh, wait...
This makes far more sense. If I'm going to be limited to maybe 6,000 blood points because I got steamrolled, I'd feel less crippled if it became 12,000 with a x2 bonus.
In my experience, SWFs like yours are outliers, not the norm.
Edit: the 6k BP reference was from when we had x1.5 BP bonuses. It's probably a lower average now. I don't have a large enough sample size, but the devs do.
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Yeah, ingame Comms with such a wholesome Community. What should go wrong?
Cannot wait for being called things in Russian, Italian and German because I did not run the Killer around for 15 Gens.
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What difference does that make? I still get cursed out in multiple languages. The only difference is, I get to run it all through Google translate as it is now. LOL
I feel you, though.
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-Giving more information to solo survivors definetely won't be as good as communication but it will give them at least one advantage of the benefits communication has and if solo survivors get similiar strength like SWF then killers can get buffed as well.
-You generalize SWFs too much.You make them sound like their some kind of pure evil that only wants to destroy and humiliate the killer.That is not the case.Most SWFs are just a chill group of friends that want to have a fun match.Toxic/Tryhard SWFs are the absolute minority in my opinion.
-Not all SWFs decide to screw the randoms over.Furthermore i don't understand the "action reaction" bit.A group of solo survivor can bring strong items in as well,can't they?
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They're saying SWF don't run those perks, because they get them for free. That's the point.
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How often do you play killer? Just interested.
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Just make friends
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60/40. Played it more during the Bloodrush because I want to get my Huntress to P3-50.
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It's seems Killer advantage because you're always gonna have that 1 potato or no one's on the same page and knows what the other has. But I've had games though where we completely dominated the Killer with no comms. I've had lobbies where before the match starts, we discuss what perks we're using and what offerings or items we should bring. It's rare, yes. But it is possible.
Something also to keep in mind that a "balanced match" is a killer walking away with 2k and 2 survivors escaping. SFW's tip that balance towards them and (depending on skill) will walk away with all 4 Survivors escaping.
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Okay, thank you. :D
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If SWFs were balanced then killers wouldn't want to lobby dodge.
BHVR shouldn't try so hard to hide issues with SWF and matchmaking
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Oh thanks I didn't understand
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oh yeha, same, I always feel so....idk dissapointed? when I see it.
Its like come on, ESPECIALLY when they are actually good at the game, like what are you doing as a gamer?
I always feel these are the people that quickly turn to walk throughs for games, or use immortality code or play on easy setting or something...ya know, not real gamers.
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Just ask any killer (and yourself) in the higher ranks if he/she would prefer to go against 4 solos or 2, 3, 4 SWFs.
95% the answer would be: Give me the 4 solos. Now why is that? And then tell me there's nothing wrong with SWFs again.
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What would balance SWF without nerfing solo is that they can only take a certain perk for one survivor. This means only one could have DS or BT or DH ans others have to choose different perks. 4-man SWF would still have 16 perks but they would all be different perks. Since SWF have communication they could easily strategize who would do hook saves, gens etc. in certain situations to get most out of the perks.
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Giving debuffs to SWF groups is a terrible idea.
First of all, not every SWF is Seal-Team-Six. A lot of the time, it's just a bunch of friends who want to play together. Sometimes its even Randoms who like playing with certain people. I've got quite the friends list full of randoms I've just plain enjoyed playing with. I've often spared survivors as killer, and survivors tend to add me to their friend list when I do. And they later invite me to play survivor with them and we have a good time. No comms, no coordination. The only advantage being that we know the other player isn't a complete and total potato.
Secondly, how fair is it to the solo survivor who gets paired with a 3-man team? Either they're NOT on comms, and they're at a huge disadvantage. Or they ARE on comms, the killer figures it out, and decides to tunnel and/or camp the solo to slow down gens SIGNIFICANTLY.
Finally, it encourages comm-usage. Because if you're NOT on comms in a SWF with friends, then you're at a huge disadvantage and need the comms to overcome that disadvantage.
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Just ask any survivor (and yourself) if he/she would prefer to go against a killer who camps or a killer who doesn't camp. 95% the answer would be: Give me the killer who doesn't camp. Yet killers will insist there's nothing wrong with camping.
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The mistake you made was associating SWF with comms when they aren't always mutually inclusive.
What if the SWF doesn't have comms? They just get nerfed anyways?
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Well, to be honest. You get the best player experience as solo. Not knowing what your teammates will do. Will they save you? Wil they leave you to die? That's the experience DBD is mean to give to survivors so. Why not nerfing SWF with a penalty when working together in a gen? If one of the SWF survs is working on a gen paired with a solo then they don't get the penalty and... since they don't get the penalty that would avoid situations where they sandbox the single player because having that solo in-game, benefits them. There are a lot of times where a 3 SWF team leaves the solo behind, and whether it's up on them, it's not fun.
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Of course there are SWFs that are not on comms, but very often they are, especially on console. Solos can easily party up in the lobby before the timer ends. Even if you were not on comms and you play with certain people all the time, you learn their playstyle. But it was just a suggestion and it's never going to happen anyways.
In my opinion it would not be much of a nerf because surviving is so easy even with meme builds. I have played 2 years solo survivor and been rank 1 since august 2018.
But it's up to the devs to decide whether or not they ever change SWF.
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I don't really have much to say that @Aven_Fallen didn't cover. Of course buffing solos would mean buffing killers otherwise half of the player base would be crying because their experience has been ruined or whatnot. And yup nerfing swf wouldn't fix the solo swf problem because they would feel the nerfs too, not all swfs are 4 man. When you think about the specific tools swf have, you realize that they are not concrete and power adjustment for them is impossible because it is so variable, like the amount of skillchecks per generator. They can call out relative locations and coordinate actions, both of which would not only be easy to give to solos, but also the buff killers receive to compensate would be easy to come up with. Something like a nerf to all second chance perks to prevent synergy or making some killer add-ons basekit would be just enough without making killers too strong.
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and why don't they fix swf doing that they can't choose the same perks among them?
(example: if one of them uses ds their other friends cannot use ds.)
this would work equally with objects as flashlights, but obviously the others can use more flashlights but of different categories. this does not affect solitary players.
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