What should be done with Keys and Moris?
The ever lasting question, arguably the most toxic and dreaded things when coming up against them. The Ebony Mori, The Skeleton Key and The Dull Key.
So, what would you want to see with these? Would you want them nerfed, or stay the same? Maybe removed?
What should be done with Keys and Moris? 83 votes
12 votes
44 votes
7 votes
7 votes
4 votes
4 votes
2 votes
3 votes
Comments
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Anything that says Nerf one and remove the other, include rework in their. My brain doesn't function right at 2 am and I completely forgot to include them.
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Remove Moris and nerf Keys
i can’t believe anyone still thinks keys and Mori’s are the same 😂
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Some do. To me I see it from a standpoint that both complete an objective early, and do require work to get to them
(one much easier than the other).Regardless, I think both should stay in the game with harsh changes.
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Remove Moris and nerf Keys
I think multiple options should exist for a survivor to get out. Otherwise it wouldn’t be fair as a killer can easily patrol and camp the exit and there’s no match timer so it’s not fair for the survivor. Also you gotta think, Mori’s don’t require much other than a down, hook and another down. Which is easy to get. All you have to do is act like you’re leaving and come back. If they’re high mobility like spirit, billy, a charged oni.. or just a undetectable hook camper like wraith or ghost face looking at a wall pretending to not pay attention being careful not to trigger spine chill listening for the audio cue, it’s just too easy for killers to get the down again. BT doesn’t work. You’re dead. It’s just not fun to cut people’s lives short in a game where they need more than one interaction with the killer.
now from the killers perspective I can understand the frustration with keys. But they’re only realistically usable when there’s 2/3 people alive. Even then they still have to do most of the generators anyways before even using the key. 4/5 gens have to be done. That’s 80% of your objectives done. Killer needs what.... one hook? So 12 hooks has been reduced to 4. That sounds like a 67% objective reduction. Survivors get at most 40% objective reduction with 3/5 gens to be done while still having 2 people left. Enough said. Killers have to do less to use their ultra rare and it’s just an offering. With Survivors it’s an item. And that’s all they have. Where are the survivors ultra rare offerings? Killers got both.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
I get this 100%
I absolutely hate it when a killer comes back for me or my team after they were just unhooked, and then they ignore me even when I go for the body block. Many killers also camp like you said making it that as soon as you're unhooked you're still dead.
I usually dont like saying they've got x amount of their objective done, because this changes as the game goes on. Early game it's harder for killer to complete their objective while it's easier for survivor. When there are less pallets, more people are injured because they don't heal or there are less gens to patrol, it becomes harder for survivors and easier for killers.
Regardless this is a poll based on your opinion, as well as others, so if you think Moris need to be removed that's fine by me.
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Remove Moris and nerf Keys
Yeah it’s all good. It’s just how I feel you and everyone else probably won’t agree. I just don’t think keys and Mori’s should be treated the same . That’s why I say remove Mori but nerf keys. I think a second escape option should always remain an option. That’s how it is in F13. There are more “counselors” than survivors in that game and 5 ways to escape. Why should survivors be confined to one way of escaping? Why should 3 gen even be a thing when there’s no pressure on killer at that point other than to patrol 3 generators just a few feet apart each? That sounds broken. I remember in F13 there’s two cars, the cops, a TIMER that works against the killer Jason, and that you can just kill him 😂 so why would a second way of escaping come with a cost of bringing in an ebony Mori ? Why does he need that buff? The key is already set to only be usable once almost all the gens are done anyways. It’s not like they can just come in and take off. Nobody pips that way So keys already make sure you play the game first. Ebony Mori’s don’t. Nobody pips if you just kill the guy after one hook because they can’t heal that guy or unhook him again. We need those points. We need more chances than that. Now... if they slow down gens or give alternative objectives to slow the pace then I quite frankly don’t care if that is what it takes to remove Mori’s. I just think they speed the game up too much soetimes. Keys don’t. They still have to do the work 😂
AT LEAST MAKE MORIS USABLE AFTER EVERY SURVIVOR HAS BEEN HOOKED ONCE THEN ANY SURVIVOR CAN BE MORI’d. It would encourage Killers to go after other people
is there any way to change my vote? I think my vote falls more along the lines of “nerf Mori’s and keep keys the same” or rather, I don’t know if it’s actually much of a nerf. But making the killer hook everyone first seems more fair. Another effective method of Discouraging tunneling.
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Nerf Moirs and keep Keys the same
As killer I don't have a big problem about about keys. It's hard to find the hatch and I always make sure where the hatch is. About morris they need a nerf. If you see mori in the match you know you are dead. Except you are Monto, No0b3, Ayrun or someone else. My opion is to make this able to use after 2 hooks
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Remove Moris and nerf Keys
I don’t think it would be useful after two hooks. At that point you might be spending more time Mori animation than finding the final hook for that guy. You’re going to want to do it after the first hook, but after everyone’s been hooked once. That seems more reasonable. Killers don’t need to eat that DS stun anyways or take the BT stun. Just find another guy! It’s not hard but killers just want to throw someone out ASAP and that’s just not fun for the one guy. If your defense is “oh well that’s the killer just wanting to kill someone For a change. He’s tired of getting ran on. That’s the only way he has a chance” I don’t believe it for one moment 😂 I’ve seen high rank killers cut down on chase time because they’re good. Granted some of the loops are strong and gen speed can be atrociously fast, but that’s because either 1) certain killers need buffs like clown and plague.
2) you just need to practice more. Some of the killers are really OP. High mobility killers create good map pressure. Also Get some map knowledge. You don’t need a damn Mori.
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Remove both of them
No reason to keep two flawed pieces of game design in the game, might as well remove them and rethink them from scratch after a while.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Moris are atrociously powerful, and I don't know how to fix them without making them useless, but they definitely need a rework. For keys, I'd just make it to where Hatch can't be opened until there's only one survivor, or the exit gates are powered. Currently if 1 survivor is dead and 1 gen is left, 3 survivors can get an escape assuming there's a key, this shouldn't be the case as it can cut out the final objective. By cutting out the final Generator, the survivors have circumvented the most difficult objective.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
I made a post recently to recreate these two pieces of the game. As much as they’re broken strong and pretty dull compared to everything that’s been done to spice up the game, they’re still essential in DbD.
Moris are an easy change since they’re offerings: decrease their spawn rate in the Bloodweb and make it so that you must hook all four Survivors before anyone can be killed.
Keys are more difficult because it’s not just the item that’s the problem, it’s how the hatch works. They have to change that before they change keys, but the easiest thing they can do currently is to make the keys have a long animation instead of escaping with the click of a button.
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Keep them both the same
I say they are fine. They are not in every match. You have to do at least some work to use either, more for a key. I don't find them to be very problematic when I play either side.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
I propose this:
keys now take 5 seconds to open hatch and while being opened the audio for an open hatch plays. people can be grabbed out of opening hatch and add-ons could affect speed. this makes it so they can't be seen and be hit by the killer but still just escape because they had a win button for the situation.
Ebony Moris can be used if everyone has been hooked once. this makes it so you can't tunnel and mori them immediately. alternatively, they stay the same BUT the person can only be killed after all 5 gens are done. I'd say the previous is better but I could settle for both
feedback?
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Can’t nerf one without nerfing the other. Both are cheap and unfun to play against.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Both are currently unfair and make the game too easy for one team. I equally hate getting mori'd at 5 gens right after first hook and having an entire team of survivors escaping when I had them on the edge of death.
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Keep them both the same
I'm probably the 0.1% who doesn't care.
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Remove both of them
Remove both.
Maybe make yellow mori base kit since its can only be used on the last survivor anyways, making it give basically no advantage whatsoever.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
The problem is changing them will lead to backlash no matter what. Survivors will get mad if moris aren't treated properly, and killers will get mad if keys aren't treated properly.
There really isn't a win-win situation when dealing with the two of them.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Rework them. The Mori animations are amazing (besides the first few on Trapper, Wraith, Billy, and Nurse.) but it's not fair that survivors loose pips because of them. Exact same thing with keys, they force a loss on the other player for no reason other then luck they found one in a chest or a survivor brought it in. Both are needed in the game, but they need massive overhauls.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Personally I say just rework them and just tell people too suck it up. Survivors did the same thing when Insta heals were nerfed, and they eventually got over it, so the only major problem is that everyone under the sun will be bringing keys and moris every game.
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Nerf Keys and keep Moris the same
Now one might immediately see my voting answer and immediately think "nerf one and not the other? This guy is biased!!" however I have some very real concerns here that I think not only validate my opinion, but also may get a few people to change their minds here.
To keep it short and to put it bluntly, I see far more problems with keys than I do with moris. For a few reasons (RANT INCOMING)
Items Vs. Offerings
Biggest issue here: Keys are items, and moris are offerings. There are huge problems with this, and let me tell you why. On the surface, this difference might seem negligible but I assure you it is not:
Mori's as offerings are single time use. Once they have been burned at the start of a match, they are gone so it doesn't matter what happens in the actual trial itself nothing can change that fact. If you do too well and all the survivors begin to disconnect the match and rage quit, it's still gone, if survivors don't DC but they start killing themselves on the hook to get out of the match early it's still gone, completely wasted since you never really got a proper chance to use it. If you stomp everyone in the match and hook them all a bunch of times until they start dying quickly in what becomes a short match, it's gone, if you get stomped and never get the chance to use it (while using a mori? well you're bad, but it be that way sometimes) it's gone. Mori's are one-time use, and when it's gone, it's gone.
Items on the other hand do not play by those rules. Oh it doesn't matter if a survivor DCs ruining your chance to actually use a mori but if a killer DCs while you're playing survivor you get to keep your item. If you escape as a survivor, you get to keep your item.
Not to mention, items unlike offerings, also have add-ons, the key specifically has add-ons that actually prevent you from losing them! Even if you die or even if you use the key to actually escape you still. get. to. keep. the. key. This makes the weaved ring and the milky glass some of the most popular and most frequently used add-ons not just for the key, but out of every add-on survivors have access to.
Even if the weaved ring and milky glass didn't exist, there are other add-ons the key has access to, that turns the key from just a simple tool to escape to a multi-purpose object that can be used for a variety of different functions that could fit into a variety of loadouts and builds. You can use it to reveal fellow survivors auras at a range, you can use it to decrease your chance to be the obsession while also revealing the obsession's aura from any range, you can even use it to reveal the killer's aura. And of course add-ons exist that either boost the range of these effects, or add time to the use of the key.
And of course, with the recent new item changes, now that items never break and never disappear you can actually use these effects fully depleting the key itself and still use the key to escape, or escape with the key to preserve it for the next match. I mean seriously, it is almost impossible to lose these things and you can survive on a total inventory of one or two keys and stretch those out for what seems like an infinite amount of time. Even IF you're using them, even IF you're dying with them, even IF you're getting use out of the multi-purpose add-ons the item has available to it and fully depleting the key. By comparison, if you had one or two moris in your inventory as a killer, guess what? You've got one or two matches to make those count. And if those two matches aren't perfect environments to use a mori in where people aren't killing themselves, disconnecting, or you're just flat out doing so good that you would actually feel bad if you actually whipped out the mori, guess what? Y A W A S T E D T H E M O R I.
And the problems don't stop there, oh no sir, guess what the cherry on top is? Keys are items, guess where you find items: IN. FREAKIN'. CHESTS!!!! I can't tell you how many times I was playing an uphill battle as killer where I was struggling to put any kind of pressure, and when I finally put my foot down and gain a decent amount of pressure, the survivors decide to cut their losses and dip and then they go "I can't believe I found a key! That's Crazy!!"
Gameplay impact - Mori Vs. Key
Now, of course that might all be well and good perchance even dismissible if mori's were actually any more impactful or powerful than a key is. But guess what? They're not.
Now, albeit keys are limited by how many generators are done before the hatch can actually appear much like how a mori is limited by the hooks a killer has achieved. However, there is very little to any counterplay for a key whereas there's plenty to do against a mori, which I understand might throw some people into a fit yelling "Franklin's Demise! Franklin's Demise!" so let me explain:
Why is it that when you're playing DBD everything seems fairly normal and dandy in a regular match but when a mori is finally dished out survivor become Gods at looping and turn from bright pink pastel Ace to P3 Blendettes? It's like every survivor suddenly turned into Solid Snake sneaking about the map thinking: "Aw hell naw, this b*tch ain't catchin' me, you can kiss dis *ss goodbye cuh I'm 'bouta bounce" and when a survivor finally does get caught, they transform into Sonic the Hedgehog "Gotta go fast! Gotta go Fast! Gotta go faster, faster..."
It's like a switch flips in survivor's heads and now instead of using only 10% of their brain's capacity they were able to access the other 90%
Here's the difference though, where a mori only nets you whoever it is you caught, a key can facilitate the escape of multiple survivors. If it comes down close enough to the wire, a key can be the difference between getting a 4k and getting a 1k especially when survivors are on comms. It only takes 1 survivor with a key to allow the whole team to escape and again, like I mentioned before they don't even have to bring one they can just "find" one (which in my experience, is not all that difficult). That is the difference, mori's kill indviduals and end the match for one person - a key ends the match for everybody.
And one might say "just kill the guy whoever is holding the key lol" well I would, if keys weren't the ######### 1 X 1 pixels that they are, hell Adam Francis even hides that sh*t in his coat. It feels like they're impossible to see, and even if you do kill the guy holding it, again, it doesn't disappear he leaves it behind right under his now very obviously empty hook for any other survivor in the match to find. Again, especially if they're an SWF on comms it's not hard to say "pick up my key". Even if you did happen to bring Franklin's Demise, again with the new item changes now that items no longer break upon depleting all charges the perk is no longer a viable counter. In fact it just makes it all the harder because now you're chasing one guy while his friend picks up the key and then when you chase him somebody picks up the key and soon you're struggling to keep track of who's carrying the 1 X 1 black pixel.
And I don't think I've mentioned it until now, though it was fairly implied: because of the item changes, because of how easy it is to preserve keys and stretch them out for multiple matches in a row, or simply "miraculously" find them, Keys are far more frequently used and far more easily accessed than a mori. Because you don't even need to be the guy who brings it or finds it to receive its benefits, if only one person brings a key you can potentially be guaranteed an escape. Putting my own personal match history of playing survivor and killer side by side I can't tell you how many more times I've seen survivors escape with keys than I have killers bring moris. Sure that statement might be somewhat anecdotal, but I have a sneaking suspicion it nonetheless rings true for a vast majority of the playerbase. Keys are in far greater circulation and thus in far greater use than moris. Plain and simple.
Not to mention, their frequency of use in matches has been greatly bolstered because of challenges in the archives. Where everyone is encouraged to bring a key and escape for that objective. BHVR: Not Cool Dudes.
The nightmare scenario is the ultima sweaty tryhard SWF scenario: Where four experienced players hop into a lobby, bring all the right perks, bring all the right items, add-ons for those items, offerings for whatever they want: increased luck or a notoriously survivor sided map IE Haddonfield, and they have 1 guy just one, bring a key. Not only is this match just genuinely difficult to overcome if you aren't playing a meta killer but even if you do overcome such an obstacle that SWF can still win because they had one guy bring a key. Even if they don't get everyone out they still at the very least cut their losses to get three, or two, or even just one person to escape that wouldn't have otherwise.
But again it comes back to that serious issue, the real problem is that a single key can allow everyone in a match to escape, and while a single mori can also swing games it's also possible to just outlast and outplay that killer. Where a key can be circulated around a team for anyone, just because the guy who brought it died doesn't mean it's not still out there in the match.
The most infuriating circumstance is when you're chasing a guy, he has a key, and he stumbles across the hatch and just hops out ignoring the killer who can only stand by and watch as this dude literally hops up into the air and down a rabbit hole. This should not happen, and there's a fairly easy solution that single instance, give keys and opening the hatch an animation. It doesn't have to be totem-cleansing long, but something that a killer can interrupt if they're standing right next to that survivor so they aren't guaranteed that escape, forcing a survivor to at least be slightly more meticulous with how and when they decide to escape.
Concluding
Keys are dumb.
They are in fact, more dumb than moris and that is a fact. I'm not saying moris aren't dumb they can be (but unlike keys they have a somewhat cultural relevance to Dead By Daylight. Much like Mortal Kombat is closely tied to its fatalities, and For Honor puts a lot of effort into the spectacle of their executions, Moris are treated the same way. People are always excited to see the mori for a new killer so imagine a world where mori's did not exist. With this in mind the removal of moris is quite simply not viable, it would never happen) but I am saying there aren't as many problems with moris as there are with keys. Does that mean moris shouldn't be changed? Maybe, maybe not. All I care about is fixing keys (NOT removing them) making them much harder to abuse.
Give them a quick animation to open the hatch with an audio cue, rework the weaved ring and milky glass add-ons, decrease the chance that they can be found in chests (hell, make them impossible to find in chests unless you're running Ace in the Hole or something) make them unnecessary challenges in the archives that you don't need to do to complete a level in a tome, that kind of thing. Would I nerf moris to nerf keys? Yes, yes I would wholeheartedly. Contrary to what my paragraphs of ranting might make you think I'm not against reworking or even nerfing moris, I am simply believe it is FAR more important and pertinent to rebalance keys than moris because there are far more issues with them than moris. This item is very clearly unbalanced and cannot realistically stay in its current state.
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Rework/Nerf both of them
Its not 4 hooks its actually 8.
How so is the fact that for a mori to go off they survivor needs to be:
- Hooked once.
- Downed again after being unhooked.
What this means is you kill them on 2nd hook instead of 3rd sense if the 2 above are true it also means you can hook them for a second time if your not using a mori.
That being said the ebony mori should still only work after all 4 survivors have been hooked.
Cypress/Ivory moris IMO are ok in their current state.
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