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Q. Why doesn't the game show SWFs?
If the answer is because the killer will skip the lobby then the question then must be why, isn't the game balanced?
Comments
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Because if you see SWF or Rank like this:
There will be no game for survivors ever and DEVs do all to hide problem for every price.
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What? lmfao.
If I could see the killer, I would dodge every Spirit, you wanna know why? Because she's boring to play against, does that mean the game is unbalanced? No, it means I don't like playing against certain things, obviously killers would dodge something that they seem to think makes killer impossible to play.
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the reason why you can't see SWFs before the match it's pretty obvious: most killers would dodge
on the other hand, the reason why you can't see SWFs after the match is unknown. Maybe devs don't want many people to know the strength of a decent team, causing a major rant flood in the forum. idk why, but I know it's stupid.
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As a survivor if I could see the killer I'd adjust my perks to counter whoever I'd be playing.
I'm a bit confused from your comment, are you suggesting SWFs are boring to play against like you find Spirit?
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No, Im implying that you wouldn't play against things you don't like, especially if shown, like how before the store was opened killers would dodge P3 survivors, or people playing claudette, they still dodge items i lobbies despite being able to adjust and counter those items.
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So you get bullied anonymously lmaoo. Jk I love playing against SWF because I want a CHALLENGE!!
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Killers should have the right to see who's in a SWF and who isn't.
The game wasn't made with comms in mind, and the developers said in a stream before the addition of SWF that a SWF implementation would counter balance that gameplay.
If killers dodge, then that's their right. Because there is no preparation for a killer to have, there is no notification that a killer has when a SWF has entered the lobby, as opposed to a SWF that come fully prepared beforehand.
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I'm fine with playing against SWF, I'm good enough to hold my own, but it's easier to blame SWF than your own skill level, don't think I've ever seen a killer main on the forums go "well maybe I just played poorly", it's always OP survivors and not their own mistakes.
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Gee, I wonder. Because people absolutely lose their ######### when a survivor gets hatch and all they get is a lousy, stinking 3k and they don't even double pip #########!
Obviously plenty of people would prefer to play against survivors they'd have an easier chance to 4k.
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Lol
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I don't consider myself a good killer and I still 3/4K consistently at rank 1 without dodging a single lobby, people on the forums really just aren't as good as they think they are.
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What?
Swf is played from Rank 1 - 20, you're going to see it no matter the skill level, be a better killer, especially with the next match making a lot of the maps significantly easier to play.
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Switching to perks that would counter a certain killer would require nerfs to said perks in one way or another because some of these perks would literally negate some killer powers, like for example Calm Spirit negating Freddy's (dream snare), Doctor's and Clown's powers.
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Are you denying that swf have an advantage over solo players?
As i see it, the game should be balanced for a good and thrilling game. Lets say you have 4 solo survivors at the same skill level as the killer, it would be fair and balanced, would you agree?
But if you make them a swf with coms, do you think its still balanced the same way?
Because i think, for being on par with swf, the killer has to be better than the survivors, not equal like vs the solo players. What do you think?
I am intresting in hearing your opinion on the points i made. So 4 questions, if you are intrested in a discussion, plz give 4 answers to those.
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Calm Spirit does not negate their powers.. it counters one aspect of their powers.
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No I didn't.
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How about revealing who is in a swf "after" the match? Would that be acceptable? If killers could see at the lobby they would certainly dodge.
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at this point you're just implying that SWF makes you unbeatable which just isn't the case at all.
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Yes but on second thought no. Killers should only see when someones in an swf after the match because if they see in lobby they will dodge increasing lobby times for survs and even so they would be extremly toxic to swf members even going to mori spamming(before mid chapter) this woild be extremely unfair to the casual swf.
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it could encourage lobby dodging, so they dont want to show it in the lobby.
tbf, that reason really doesnt have much to do with balancing, as SWF will always have an advantage over solo, so there will always be some killers dodging them in order to get the easiest games possible. thats just a problem with the mindset of some people.
though i definitely think it would be a good addition for the result screen.
imo at the end of the trial SWFs should be revealed and the killer should get a certain percentage of bonus points. lets say a 4 man SWF brings him +100% BPS, a 3 man SWF gives 75%, a 2 man SWF gives 50% and two 2 man SWFs give 75%.
that way you'd know who was playing with who, so false SWF accusations (yes those exist) wont be a thing anymore, and a lot less players would complain, considering they got tons of bonus points from that.
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You also have the killers on here stating that facing a SWF knowingly would be a challenge for them, some even say "fun."
But there is also a group of killers that want casual gameplay and don't want to play sweaty, where's their fun?
Why can't killers want the casual experience as well?
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Killers would 100% dodge or bring horrible builds against swf
everyone knows that
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This is my build.
Imagine this x4.
Is THIS fair? (and yes, we were all running a similar build)
We died to a Rank 12 Hag, we didn't escape 1 match out of our possible 30 or 40 Rank 1 Push matches.
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Killers skip lobbies to avoid SWFs which can only mean SWFs have an advantage over solo survivors which not only is it not balanced but BHVR are hiding this.
The idea of MMR and batch matchmaking is showing BHVR has given up on balancing the game.
Not only will solo survivors get rainbow ranks it will create a greater gap with SWFs who will want and be able to play with their similar ranks.
Even as a survivor I don't know if I've been carried by a SWFx3.
We need a balance so that killers don't avoid SWFs
Post edited by andyollolloll on3 -
I would say that the advantage given with SWF isn't enough to affect me in 95% of the matches that I play.
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Oh, so its all about you, not killers and survivors in general?
Also, as i suspected, you didnt answer the questions. Because that wouldnt support your viewpoint.
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Killers have been able to 4K since SWF was added, the game between SWF being added and right now has never been easier for killers, and it's only getting easier in the next patch, what do you honestly want besides survivors staring on the hook lmao.
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The saying one in a million is pretty accurate here. Think how killers act when they are up against a streamer or just a normal lobby. Their most of the time toxic with only a few who aren't. People who say it would be a challenge would be more inclined to mori first hook because they know who's in an swf. Lobby tinge for survivors would increase as a result of lobby dodging killers and they would know exactly who to go after. So i am all for it showing after the match so that if the killer won they can be like "huh i went against an swf that wasnt so bad" because not all swf are swat teams most are just for fun or grinding bp with items like bloody party streamers.
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Becasue swf is considered the hardest match up anyone will have as killer so many would dodge them.
Much like why they removed seeing killer profiles on steam years ago. Survivors would dodge Nurses for example.
You could say the if players feel like they will lose they would rather not play the match.
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you only got 1 perk that is unfair 4x times
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Every time the issue comes up, SWF death squads whine that they won't be able to bully unskilled killers. All BHVR needs to do is show SWF and the rank of ALL players in the lobby, then give a BP bonus if the Killer/Survivors choose to play through the match against a SWF/players of significantly (3-4 ranks or more than one color, not sure) higher rank
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That's a stupid straw-man argument, nobody unironically says that. If I'm playing with friends, I'd rather not get dodged a bunch of times under the false pretense that we're a 4 man death squad. That's all there is to it. Letting killers constantly dodge until they get their preferred matchup with low ranks not in a SWF is not the play to make this game better.
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I've read some good comments from our community both killer and survivor sided.
I think we all agree that at the end of the match it should show the SWF groups, this would show transparancy to inform the killer and other survivors.
In the main whether a sweaty of chilled SWF there is an advantage over being a solo survivor.
BHVR haven't implemented anything to address the balance for the cause of killers skipping lobbies because we all want to win and have fun.
SWF is an advantage utilised by some survivors and less effectively by others.
To address the gap some have mentioned awarding more bp to killers yet this may lead to further lack of killers as this doesn't address the killers who play for the fun factor only those skilled wanting a challenge.
Another solution would be a slowdown only for the SWFs, this would bring a more balanced side to the game and addressing the fun factor.
Perhaps this is something that can be choosen by a killer in an entity slot, e.g. SWF BP, slow down SWFs?
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I just got off a game where a SWF pretty much wrecked me as The Hag in Blood Lodge.
I didn't whine about it, nor did I blame them. I just praised them for being better at the game than me.
Do I care if they have comms? No, because that just adds an extra bit of challenge for me as a killer. And it tells me that as a killer, especially someone like Hag, I need to get better at the game at fooling them as a whole group rather than one by one as individuals.
The only reason it's demoralizing for some people is because you feel absolutely helpless and you don't know what to do, they seem to be one step ahead of you. And they usually are, because they can tell their friends what you do if they see you. But, isn't that the point of a challenge? As the killer, what's the fun in stomping absolutely everyone in your way with no challenge whatsoever?
I didn't get mad during that game as Hag, I just sucked it up, told them GG and congratulated them.
I told myself I would eventually get better at Hag the same way I got better at Spirit. Both of those killers are fun for me and facing hardcore SWF groups really amps up the intensity of the match and pushes my mind into hyperdrive.
But alas, I still lost.
(I still double hooked all of them though :P)
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I think that is the issue with Dead by Daylight. The fact that you can exit out of lobbies if you feel like they're a SWF squad or that the Killer is playing someone you find "Boring" or "Unfun" (< Genuinely dislike this argument.)
You should face whoever you are facing in a lobby, maybe have something similar to the disconnection ban but a lot less harsher and doesn't stack up so you cannot always dodge. But maybe that'll make the wait times much more longer.
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No he's suggesting if you can see what your facing then you'll dodge. This will increase lobby queue times which already aren't great atm.
Some killers would being a mori, very strong add-ons or dodge if they knew they were facing a swf.
If I knew I was facing a hag I'd dodge or bring a flashlight. Does it mean the hag is op or unbalanced? No
The devs don't want to encourage any lobby dodging unless it's due to bad ping.
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Just like survivors arnt prepared for an eboney mori freddy but i dont see anyone asking to see the killer in lobby. If your having an issue with swf just go in the basment or wait at the gates thats what i do
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Why are you using self care at rank 1 lol
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So we should force low rank Killers to go through matches with high rank SWF. Got it.
And before you claim that's not a thing either, there's a post talking about it almost daily both here and on the subreddit
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I'm sure it's been said already but.
I'm against seeing any SWFs or seeing the Killer Pre game. It becomes either a dodge from either side, or a lot of counterplay before the game even starts.
It's not because the game is unbalanced, it's more of a matter of preference. I do gotta say this though... A good chunk of anti SWF threads are very misleading. This is mainly because a good portion (not all) of the Killer mains that will complain about SWF whenever they lose or have lost a match to survivors will always point a finger to SWF as a scapegoat.
There's very little amounts of evidence that indicate a 4 man SWF team outside of a Profile friend list check or asking post game. So, here's the thing.
What happens when Killers get rolled by a team of 4 solo survivors? They blame it on a swf.
When Killers see clicky clicky or tbag? Well that's gotta be swf because solo survivors couldn't possibly be toxic.
When Killers experience a match with overly altruistic survivors and see post game that all of them had BT or DS? Welp, blame the SWF. Solos don't run those perks.
Survivors "abusing" God loops and doing gens while someone else is being chased? Has to be SWF, only they can have this sort of information.
Point is, when solo survivors can easily fit in to these scenarios, it really makes you question the integrity of the majority of anti SWF threads. And streamers like Tru3 who pin a large majority of the game's imbalance ( in his opinion) on SWF. I'm not telling anyone to not watch streamers like these. I enjoy his streams time to time. But I prefer people like Otz who will, have his quirks with SWF, but not blame any sort of imbalance on them, and keeps a general open mind when it comes to killer play, and does very good because of it.
Sorry for the long read lol
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Congratulations, you won the argument nobody made. Obviously, that's not good either. Nobody said it was?
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Maybe he's a solo player? Feel like Self-care is still a much needed perk for solo players. You often don't get healed by your teammates. Need something to be able to get back to full life. Besides what else is there to run? Besides for an exhaustion perk there's nothing a survivor really needs to run.
My build is Lithe, Self-Care, DS, and Adrenaline. Lithe being exhaustion and the other 3 being perks that are situational to get me out of a bad situations. I feel like I win a large majority of my games at red rank solo.
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Self care imo is a wasted perk slot it takes forever to heal with it either get your teammate to heal you or just do gens. You can use perks like iron will or resilance instead. Also brown medkits are so much more useful now cause you can keep them if you escape so i use them instead of selfcare
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That's your personal opinion. I like to run self-care. There's been times where I've lost games because I need to be healed and I can't get healed. So I'd rather be safe and use a perk to heal myself. I'd use Inner Strength if it went in the Shrine of Secrets one of these weeks, but I haven't seen it.
I personally don't bring items into games. I feel like it's already too easy to survive. So I try to add more difficulty by coming in naked. But I guess brown med kits are fine, but don't they not even fully heal you 1 time?
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Brown medkits give you one full heal. Self cares fine as long as you dont spend the whole game hiding in the corner selfcaring. if you know when to prioritise gens over heals then selfcares decent ig
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Yes. All I'm saying. You can still run self-care and use it well. I often run around hurt even when I have the perk. I'd much rather naturally run into teammates to heal me. Which is usually what happens. But when you have game sense and realize.... These teammates are all on death chase, it's my time to take the chase. I'm going to heal up and make sure the killer finds me so that I can do my job and take the chase. Same with if it's a camper or tunneling play. Getting healed up to go in and save a teammate is obviously smarter then running up injured into a camping player.
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Conveniently forgetting the fact that matchmaking is messed up right now and your matches are probably filled with mid-rank players.
My results are similar, because thanks to the matchmaking I'm not always facing equally skilled opponents even though I am a skilled killer.
On Topic:
It's silly to hide the grouping status of our opponents.
The argument is that players would dodge the groups and split the playerbase.
People are also forgetting that last year the grouping stats in matches was given to us and while the data is probably flawed in one way or another we can see that the smallest % of players play in 4 and 3-man groups. The playerbase wouldn't be split that badly if groups of 3-4 were shown or prevented while 2-man groups were hidden or allowed. Which means that argument isn't as good as people would think.
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Splitting queues is out of the question, and making swfs known is effectively just that. Not to mention the amount of swf players that will complain that it's near impossible to find a match.
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It might be silly that they hide it. I personally don't care if they show it or not. But how big of an issue do you consider this? I feel like it's a non issue and not worth investing timing into fixing. Why do players have to be so obsessed with finding out they're playing against SWF?
At the beginning of the game it would increase people dodging. Showing it at the end of the game isn't helping either. It's better to keep the playerbase blaming everything on SWF. You have a graph right there that shows how many more solo players there are. I'd rather just have killers that say "######### you SWF is OP!" and blame it on that. It'd just start making people even more frustrated if they started to realize they're losing to solo players over and over again. At this point just don't change anything.
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Is that build supposed to be scary? I'm confused, it literally has a killer perk in it.
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