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Once again, DS it not an anti-tunnel perk
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Your idea doesn't work because the killer could abuse that by slugging 2 people, hooking the unhooker, then hooking the hooked and evade the DS.
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I can see that working though.
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You mean like how NoED rewards low skill killers?
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Even if it was, a perk that completely prevents the other side from playing efficiently for 60 seconds and with no counter would still have no right to exist.
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I’m not disputing the fact that they’re strong. If you said “they should be changed because they’re too strong” then I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, but the argument that they take no skill or are free is a bad one because you’re arguing against basically every perk in the game in that case. All perks are free bonuses and very few of them require any skill at all. Should we nerf all perks then?
There aren’t really any perks with downsides except No Mither so that’s not a great argument either. BT and DS are perks which, like almost every perk in the game, give you some in-game effect just for equipping them. If you think the effect is too strong then that’s the argument to be made.
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if you read both of my comments you see that i say the two perks need a balance, i dont want them nerf`d because i dont see the point in everyone complaining instead i want to find that middle ground where every side can be happy, but in recap i said there are strong and weak perks, every game has them but because theyre so strong that creates the issues, most other perks need a buff and these need a balance check so for example
DS - Deactivates after youre off the hook and another survivor is DOWNED and HOOKED (hooked an already slugged person wont work). DS now also counters moris, what these changes do is make DS a full anti-tunnel perk. whether the killer has a mori or not he will be punished for tunneling the person off the hook
BT - If in chase BT doesnt activate (this one needs work but atm BT is free altruism, what i mean by this is run the perk and every unhook will be safe and you can just pip to red ranks by simply running that one perk. they some how need not reward the savior for just running straight to the hook even in chase, the point is you should try get safe saves and have BT as a last resort instead of the common "oh i have BT, its a free save" even if theyre right infront of the killer)
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Except NOED actually has a counter.
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Where was it ever said it was anti tunnel? Because you can be tunneled for more than 60 seconds and you can be tunneled twice in the match. So I never really considered it a perk to deal with tunneling. It can help with tunneling but it's not a remedy. I wish people would stop acting like the perk is so compelling at dealing with tunneling that it shouldn't work outside of it, the fact is it doesn't even really help with tunneling in the first place.
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"i would say not having any fear of a killer is an issue tbh"
No. There is one perk in the game that removes some fear of the killer for a single minute of the match: DS. It was MEANT to be that way. It states it right in the perk description. It literally says: "There's nothing to be scared of." — Laurie Strode. In pretty much any horror movie ever, there is a victim who faces the killer head on and ultimate turns out to be the survivor. This is completely inline with the theme of this game and the DLC that released this perk. And it is a required perk to counter current rampant cheap game play by killers.
"it's not a 1v1, its a 4v1"
Great point, which is exactly why the killer can easily go for someone else. You don't HAVE to go for the person who is being freshly off hooked, nor do you HAVE to go for the person who was unhooked in the last 60 seconds. That's a choice. And if you make that choice, it only stands to reason that it should be risky. If you waste your own time because you tried to go for the low hanging fruit vs. give them a chance to play the game, thats on you.
This is also an assumption on your part that every single person is carrying both DS and BT. I admit, they are common perks, but I rarely have a match where every single person is carrying both of these perks. And there are killers, items, and offerings that allow the killer to insta-down survivors without having to even waste a perk slot to do it. A mori causes the killer to only do 30% of their job in a match. Tell me again how DS and BT - both mainly responses to poor game play tactics are unbalanced?
DS has never been a 100% anti-tunnel perk, and it shouldn't be. It works exactly as it is supposed to. The fact that you have to hit a survivor one extra time because you couldn't be bothered to flush out someone else in the course of 60 seconds or don't feel like running out the timer is dumb and entitled on the part of killers everywhere who seem to just want survivors to have zero useful perks against them...in addition to zero opportunities to escape chases...or the map in general.
Your last comment makes no sense. I know keenly the gen completion times, but your statement doesn't add up.
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Wow 🤓
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That quote is used in the films, in which she is constantly screaming and terrified through them all. she fears him, she doesnt toy with him like survivors do with killers in dbd. obviously the game isnt scary i mean we all run around trash piles or hey its not really scary is it, i just mean in the aspect you as a survivor shouldnt be happy and willing to be downed or grabbed just so you can use DS. its also not the issue of chasing someone else either its the issue of doing that extra chase then hooking that person then being hit by that DS later on even though you have hot other people and hooked them. as a killer wasting time can cost you the match, its not like survivor where if youre skilled you can kinda mess about alot more. the issue is the game expects chases to be short, any good killer will not chase beyond 30seconds, some will stop at 20seconds and its possible to get really short chases but after that chase (lets say 20seconds) that DS can still be active for 40seconds. and like i said most matches are fine im just saying when it is a full meta swf it sucks that the perks strong that they help them so much, like we agree its not common but that does show how strong the two perks are when no other perks have that effect. its not about nerfing anything its about balance, too many people hit red ranks, hell pipping is easy, but when people struggle in chases and hardly do objectives but can still pip through BT saves etc. yes its and issue. its not about not being bothered or cant down other survivors because thats not what people dislike its the fact even after you do all those harder chases of not tunneling you can still be punished for doing well and accidentally running into the person with DS while its still active, you cant just leave them. my changes encourage more skillful play on both ends, survivors cant just use BT for easy pips/saves and DS stop those boring tunnel games or being mori`d off hook but encourages the killer to go out more and rewards them for doing so by deactivating the perk. fair and balanced changes for both sides.
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Why are you performing unsafe unhooks in the basement while the killer is nearby instead of waiting for them to move away?
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That quote defines the intent of the perk perfectly. And she does, in fact, survivor. And she does, in fact, come back aggressive and unafraid.
"you as a survivor shouldnt be happy and willing to be downed or grabbed just so you can use DS."
A) Most people aren't super happy to use DS, as it usually means they are constantly getting chased. Not to say you can't use it for defensively, but it's a huge risk as your obvious boldness can often get you slugged. Which is not all that fun.
B) Thats how perks work. You think a killer passing a totem that's still up in an end-game chase when the last gen is finished isn't happy? When you can use a perk that you had the forethought to bring, even though you might not get to use it, you are pleased. Why should survivors not get to be pleased with their perk selection?
" its the issue of doing that extra chase then hooking that person then being hit by that DS later on even though you have hot other people and hooked them."
This is where the OP is correct - DS IS NOT AN EXCLUSIVELY AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK. As I have said repeatedly, it works exactly how it is supposed to. Also, if you find and hook another survivor(s) between the time you find the person who was just off-hooked with DS, you are probably face rolling that team and it's not a bad thing that they have something to slow you down. A killer recently tried to use DS timer as a means to say it "punishes" killers for being efficient, when in reality, they had a very advantageous aura revealing setup and slugged all three survivors within 35ish seconds of the person with DS getting off-hooked and were mad that person was able to use it because they chose to pick the most recently off-hooked person up first. They literally 4k'd and still had the audacity to complain.
"its not about nerfing anything its about balance"
You are right, it is about balance. And DS, in its current form, is absolutely essential to solo survivors. As I already stated, DS and BT are two of the only things giving solo survivors some semblance of balance against Killers RIGHT NOW, let alone after the coming changes are implemented. You are looking at this entirely from a SWF viewpoint, and the reality is most teams aren't SWF and solo survivors are frequently dominated by killers rn.
"fact even after you do all those harder chases of not tunneling you can still be punished for doing well and accidentally running into the person with DS while its still active, you cant just leave them."
The fact is, if you find them and pick them up with 60 seconds, you aren't engaging in "all those harder chases". And yes, you can just leave them. Or slug them. It's definitely an option.
Nothing about your changes are balanced. They are killer sided. Adding being able to DS a mori is just prolonging the inevitable. A killer will still chase down the DS person and mori them. With smaller maps, less palettes, more dead space, this would be easier than ever. No Thank you.
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Killers who hook survivors in the basement don't go away. 😂
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DS has a counter too. Just find someone else.
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Then do gens :P
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As the person said above, some killers never leave the basement lol. Secondly, why should my perk be disabled because a solo teammate farmed me?
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I swear when will people stop complaining about ds and talk about something else for once. As strong as ds is, it's counterable, and with many options. You can leave the person on the floor and get pressure/momentum, eat the ds and leave the player vunerable or you could just not tunnel. If you happen to pick up someone without tunneling because you hooked someone else and caught them again within a minute, then clearly you are in a decent position as killer and eating a ds and taking a 5 second stun won't hurt you that much. Remember killers have NOED and i don't go around complaining about that (even though noed is extremely powerful even when not activated) because I know that survivors have DS. The worst bit tho is when people claim that the old ds was better. Clearly you did not play the game much or at all then if you are making such a statement. At the end of the day ds is just something that becomes instinctly avoidable and you become naturally aware of, much like dead hard and bt, and bbq, pop and NOED.
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And like the 100s of videos you see of it happening?
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Hundreds? lol
Show me HUNDREDS.
It rarely happens. Relax.
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Here's the deal with ds that makes it such an infuriating perk. If the person who is being tunneled is good at looping, they will outrun the ds timer and therefore have no protection against being tunneled even though that's the purpose of the perk. So for a good survivor the only way to get use out of ds is to force it with a locker. If DS had a maybe 30 second timer but it didn't go down while in a chase then maybe survivors wouldn't do that since upon being downed after a long chase they'd still have it. But because of how poorly ds is designed, that is the only way for them to use their perk.
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Imagine you just got farmed against a basement camping leatherface. If there were to be a deactivation clause, it would have to not apply when you are downed.
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I don't have to imagine that as I don't have problems with thinking ahead. If I got farmed against camping LF and I was hooked then it's the idiot rescuer that just gave him a kill and only thing that changes is me going back to the hook 60 seconds faster as I'm clearly not getting out anyway.
If I'm the one doing the rescue I will use BT so that survivor can run away and I get my WGLF stack.
When you get hooked it's up to the killer if you die unless you have coordinated friends coming to the rescue and killer isn't prepared for it.
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Like I said before, DS's main purpose is to prevent tunneling. The developers specifically designed the perk to stop killers from hooking survivors who gotten unhooked at the worse possible time (something they had no control over).
However, the developers designed the perk in way that allows killers who didn't tunnel to get hit by the perk. Not directing this to you, but people in general, sometimes a perk doesn't work as intended. Needless to say, that doesn't change what the developers wanted DS to become, that being an anti-tunnel perk. If you do down someone from the hook and pick them up, you do take that risk of them having DS and wasting your time.
Knowing DS does its job [preventing tunneling] poorly due to the design of the perk, we can make it better by adding more conditions and make it more powerful against tunneling. 😄
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I don't disagree with you. I was poking fun at the fact that I, personally, am not phased by that perk. As a Spirit main, they don't last long after stunning me.
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I can relate since I main Nurse, but I haven't touched DBD for a month — I'm probably rusty. 😕
Anyways, any ideas to making DS do what the developers wanted DS to do, better? 😄
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Honestly, I would do this:
-Extend the timer by 30 seconds
-Every time a Survivor is hooked, the timer decreases by 75/60/45 seconds.
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If the Killer has two Survivors hooked in the basement, why would they bother to leave? At most I would patrol the nearest generators, but I'm not going to willingly give up the momentum granted by having at least 75% of the survivors busy
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I want to point out the words "easy enough to down survivors so quickly"
Well there you go devs, even a killer main has said it's too easy to be killer.
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- 20/25/30 second timer
- timer pauses while in a chase
- timer ends when someone else is hooked or uses their DS as long as you are healthy or injured, the timer stays up if you are downed
- (Possibly, doesn't have to be a thing) The timer slows down to half speed while you are downed
That way DS does not expire while you are still being tunneled and does not activate when you are clearly not being tunneled.
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Can you cite the source that DS purpose is to exclusively prevent tunneling? Because let's be real, it does a lousy job at tunneling. You can be tunneled beyond 60 seconds and you can be tunneled more than once per match. The existing iteration of DS isn't effective at dealing with tunneling.
Edit: quoted wrong person, I can't find who I was asking.
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Silly forum user, player feedback is for the garbage bin. Just look at all the feedback they got on the Ruin changes. Do you need a better example of them literally not caring at all about what their community says.
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That seems like an unnecessary change to make for such a rare occurrence. If I see that same survivor in a short period of time I'll just leave them for a while. I can understand that it deactivates after a hook but I wouldn't like my perk being deactivated by another survivor lol
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I see desperately DS rework. Tunnel much? Fresh unhooks are delicious?
Post edited by xenofon13 on1 -
You're fine, but I can go ahead and show you the thread:
Quote: Horvath
We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
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There might be only one hooked. A killer waits for the save, rushes back in for the tunnel, he downs both but knowing DS deactivates on another hook, hooks the rescuer first and then happily rehooks his tunneled victim.
Same here about hooking another surv. Pausing the timer is a fair buff but you know a crouched piggy would exploit the short timers, gotta stay at 60 or it would be worthless.
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But if the timer was too long a survivor could just follow the killer around for the whole match with the invulnerability of ds and if the killer doesn't have a way to break the chase and the survivor has unbreakable or is a great looper then they just have to deal with the survivor following them around the whole game. All that said, I do think that you make a good argument for extending the timer since the majority of the cast of killers have a reliable way to break chase. I also said that the timer wouldn't end when someone else is hooked if you are downed while they are hooked, so that solves the basement camping leatherface issue.
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Probably because the killer won't ever move away and therefore your only option is to go for an unsafe rescue and attempt some other method of getting the survivor out alive.
I've camped basement hooks plenty of times because it's a huge advantage. You force them to make an unsafe rescue so you have more chance to catch another survivor.
I thought you were a killer main, you should know this. WHY LEAVE when you can force them into a bad position?
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