The decisive rework was a BUFF
So I just recently played a match as killer in the red ranks. Toward the end of the match I was able to down one survivor and hook them then down another attempting to rescue him. After both were hooked I went to look for more. After both survivors were unhooked I had a gate standoff and down both survivors and hit the other 2. When I picked up the first survivor I was immediately hit with decisive. I expected this to happen. Upon picked up the other I was also decisive striked as well. 2 STRIKES AT GATE. How is this in any way fair? Both survivors were unhooked one after the other so how does that at all count as tunneling and why should decisive work in a situation like this. The perk should atleast deactivate if another survivor is hooked. That way it can in no way be tunneling. I've had some unfair matches in this game but this was by far the worst.
TLDR: How are 2 decisive strikes at exit gate fair.
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Happens to me way too often too. Its so annoying and unfair especially if they abuse it.
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No, it wasn't a buff it was a nerf.
The problem wasn't the person that had Decisive Strike, you could have dribbled them to the hook.
The problem was the other 3 Decisive Strikes that you didn't see because they weren't the obsession. There was no telling who had it, and imagine getting to a hook and getting DS'ed and losing all your momentum after that.
THIS time around you at least have an idea on who has it IF there is an obsession, and THIS time around there is an actual time limit.
Back in the day, it was unlimited amount of time. Imagine 4 Decisive Strikes in End Game with no time limit.
That's why old DS was awful.
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No. Both just too different. Old ds would give you free escape if you could get downed somewhere in a corner or just having survivors bodyblock. New ds is not a nerf though. Its just simply new perk.
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Decisive doesn't guarantee you to be the Obsession, unfortunately, the game likes me for some reason and I'm frequently the obsession without running an obsession perk. I have a decent computer and a fast connection so sometimes I feel like I get it just because I loaded the game first.
I've been the obsession without Decisive on a team where the other three are running it many, many times. I feel like Decisive is like a +3% chance to be the Obsession or something small
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Old ds had a 1 time use and it had its counters. Even though you could dribble it was an incredibly risky method because one more drop and your hook is gone.
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Not disagreeing with your assessment of old vs new DS, but having an obsession is just about irrelevant these days in determining who has DS. Most low tier survivors run DS and some will deliberately run an obsession perk.
Still, the OP has a point. DS is more than just an anti-tunneling tool that is was supposed to be.
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You missed my point.
Yes, Old DS had its counter, you knew the OBSESSION had it.
You didn't know the other 3 had it. THAT'S why it was awful, that's why it was nerfed.
It had an unlimited amount of time usage for everyone, the obsession was the only one that could have used it after 2 seconds of being carried.
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It does matter now, if someone is the Obsession it at least tells the killer "Someone might be running DS."
So the killer might play it more safely, might slug, might leave the person who got off the hook.
If you play survivor, you'll notice most games with no obsession the killer tunnels hardcore.
If you have an obsession, the killer is a bit more careful or might just tunnel like an idiot, but you'll notice some killers play a lot more careful when there is an obsession. ( I know I do, I don't tunnel regardless but I am a lot more careful)
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Who said it's only supposed to do with tunneling? It's not even effective at dealing with tunneling, you can be tunneled twice per match and you can be tunneled beyond 60 Seconds.
@BigBrainMegMain that's a really good point, I've noticed some games without an obsession that it becomes free rein for The Killer to Tunnel hard and delete people quickly.
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Serious questions for you killers, are survivors not supposed to have things to help keep them alive? There should be no such thing as survive at all cost, as long as possible? Should it be that once a survivor is caught it's instant death?
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My point was that you can't tell WHO has DS based on who has the obsession. Also, most killers, these days, assume that everyone is running DS, because it is one of the most run perks. You have no way of knowing who has it, so you have to assume everyone has it.
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The same thing applies for current ds? I didnt know either of those guys had ds. And I'd rather fight the old ds with its 1 time use.
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lol you have no idea what you're talking about.
You'd rather have Old DS than this new one?
You must be new to this game.
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DS is much more than an anti tunnel perk. If a killer is aggressively tunneling you, then you should be allowed to punish him for it. However, the circumstances for "tunneling" vary. If I leave the person on the hook and hook someone else, and they get unhooked and healed. I run into them again in 60 seconds (which is quite likely) and I down them. Am I really tunneling if Ive hooked another survivor and allowed them to be fully healed? Should 2 DS's be allowed to be active at the same time?
The answer is no. Its not the anti tunnel perk it was designed to be. As of right now, DS is the only survivor perk that I feel is a bit too strong. Dead Hard can be baited, and you can just kill the rescuer in the case of BT.
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It was not a buff from the old DS whatsoever. The old DS made it so that any player could DS you at any point they were downed rather than a requirement of being downed after previously hooked within the allotted time. There's counter play with the new DS the old version lacked.
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Old ds was strong but it was a 3 second stun and you could reduce the stun time with enduring not only that you could dribble the survivor to the hook but with the new ds you cant do anything about it unless you slug the survivor this is not a great counter play tbh
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just play myers permanent tier 3 + red mori...
or ghostface + red mori
or huntress 1 hit axe + red mori
or clown smoke 1 hit + red mori
do first hook and mori them ( sure DS very useless )
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It's anti-tunnel, but not strictly anti-tunnel. In your scenario, you went after the two who were unhooked. Perfectly legitimate and logical choice, but it doesn't change the fact that the perk worked as intended. Also, I don't get your point when you remark that they were unhooked one after the other.
You say it's unfair that DS works at the exit gate. They could say that it's unfair that tunneling works at the exit gate. They're the sides of the same coin. Camping/tunneling grow stronger in the endgame. So, it necessarily follows that any anti-tunneling perk would become stronger as well. They're tied together.
Was the change a buff? Opinions vary on this subject and you're unlikely to find a consensus, because it's indeed a matter of of opinion and not of fact.
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DS is only effective if you let it be, if I happen to down a recently unhooked sv, i pick him right away, so if he DS's me, his DS is canceled. So many times the killer downed me and waited for my DS in the middle of the game, just for me to use it in the end to escape. Why can't people just accept that if they lose the game its a hint that they need to get better.
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Literally been playing since the game released on console. 600+ hours clocked in. And in red ranks. I would rather fight 1 time dribble old decisive then this cheap infinite use decisive. I'd rather eat 1 ds one time then fight 2 ds were they get a free 60second immunity in some cases.
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Not to mention old ds could be counter played by enduring. Another reason it was 10× and made more sense
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He didnt use the ds until the end of the game. How tf am I supposed to know he has ds if he literally never used it and didnt have obsession ticks. That's not a sign of "me needing to get gud" it's complete and utter bs. It's either I let him escape through crawling and he gets a free escape. Or I eat the ds and he gets a free escape. Literally no counter play whatsoever.
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It was a nerf, I basically know 100% of the time when I'm going to get DSd, never could tell previously.
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Thank you for pointing this out.
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
And I cannot believe people want Old DS back.
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"THE DECISIVE REWORK WAS A BUFF"
Hell to de naw.
I remember playing killer in the old ds days. Once you got to the good survivors (top 10-15%) ? you got utterly screwed over as killer, I remember getting ready to play some dbd killer session just to walk away from playing killer cause of how the game design utterly ######### over the killer with the old d/s.
At the start of the game after a bit of looking you get the first chase, 1 being chased, the other 3 on gens for the most part. The other 3 have no reason to come off those gens until some one gets hooked.
Well since you're playing against the good players, at the start said good player has all the pallets to work with since it's the first chase, you can change targets if you want but the math is the same, 1 chased, 3 on gens.
So after you get the first down, and God forbid as killer you made a mistake in chase which just adds to how long it takes you to get that first downed survivor, BUT WAIT, after putting all that time in the case as gens get worked on BAM, get hit with D/S, so you don't even get that first hook, said survivor gets off and you continue the chase, the chase continues, more time for the other 3 to just stay on gens, and of course the survivor just goes to the area they had not gone to before to use those pallets and extend the chase.
Maybe you have not even got your first hook, 3 gens popped, maybe even 4.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE.
After finally getting that first hook, you go looking for some one else, you find them, chase begins, again some time goes into putting into this second chase you get them downed, you pick them up.........D/S strikes again !!! you continue the case, all the while gens have being worked on.
The counter play for killers when playing at the higher levels with old D/S ? Become a God tier nurse player or don't allow yourself to become a red rank killer or stop playing killer and people complain how it takes so long to find a game as survivor.
The more things change and all that eh ?
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New DS is stronger than the old one in many ways.
- the skillcheck is larger
- Enduring no longer gives soft counter to reduce the stun
- No dribbing counter
- Lockers are guaranteed safe (unless waste 60 seconds to work araund it)
- Passive buff to survivors (you need to handle every survivor who recently got unhooked as potential DS (either eat the stun or waste that 60 seconds slugging the survivor, while other survivors push gens)
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If you really think new DS is better then old DS, you probably have not played against old DS.
There was absolutly no legit counter to old DS, especially because you had no idea who else but the obsession was running it.
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I think you have no idea how playing against old DS was.
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Nop, you are wrong new strike is nice, I think need a little rework cause sometimes toxic killers just wait the minute and you are done when they tunnel u. May should been activate and turn off if u heal yourself or start repair
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Old Ds = had counter play, less stun, and even less stun for non obsessions
New Ds = No counterplay (only time), way easier to hit and longer stun on every user obsession or not.
Yeah i would take old DS over this broken piece of garbage any time.
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Is it that hard to believe that we would want a perk that can actually be countered by something? With tier 3 enduring it would extend the chase by less then 5 seconds. It had a counter play.
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Old ds could be countered out by dribbling and enduring. This one has no counterplay whatsoever. What dont you guys understand about that? Old ds would extend a chase by like 3 seconds because of enduring. Not to mention the old skill check was alot smaller then this one.
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Please Explain how that was tunneling at all. Please. I literally didnt hut them until the other 2 survivors were out the door. When the only 2 people left were the hooked survivors who else am I supposed to hit? That was a not so smart comment sir.
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I can see why one would think the DS rework was a straight buff, but considering before the DS rework, every survivor could use it before being hooked — I would have to strongly disagree with your claim.
Although DS can be used outside of tunneling, it's fairly obvious when a survivor is baiting you, and good memory can save you from getting hit by it. Not saying our current iteration of DS is perfect, but proving the point that it definitely has more counterplay than the previous iteration. 😄
There are many suggestions to changing the current version of DS to make it unable to be used outside of tunneling. A popular suggestion is to make all existing DS timers expire when a survivor is hooked, but to compensate, make the timer pause while downed. This should help killers not get hit by DS when they actually weren't tunneling. 😊
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What do you mean by "dribbling"? You could do that with the obsession sometimes (not nearly always, especially not when versus a team), but my point was that all 4 could have run DS and dribbling those was impossible.
Also Enduring was not really a hard counter, the survivor had more then enough time to get to the next pallet/window
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Getting hit with 4 Decisive Strikes before getting any hooks isn't a good thing.
Your objective would still be at 0.
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Bruh. I'm playing the game meat plant. I'm I hooked one at the vault that drops into the basement and the other by the hook that was next to the exist gate because he had boil over. They were unhooked within 5 seconds of each other and the gate was open. In the area where I hit him he wouldve 100% gotten out in 60 seconds. This wasnt tunneling at all. It was the complete opposite. So no it wouldnt make the most sense to choose the "not so recent person off hook" when they were unhooked at almost the same time
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Getting hit with 4 decisive and immediately recovering because of enduring would very much recover my objective.
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Even if DS wasn't reworked you would've been striked as it originally never had a timer and was always active. Besides, tunneling is going after someone when they've recently been unhooked. Even downing another survivor and going after the unhooked person is tunneling.
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Nope... absolutely no clue. Neither were the obsession. All 4 survivors were running the perk that game. I'm getting punished for "tunneling" when I'm not. Which is insanely hard to do since tunneling is sometimes the only viable way of putting on pressure in red ranks. But I'm actually trying to make the game enjoyable for them and I get screwed over.
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I didnt even try to hit either of them until the other team left. If every other person on the team is gone and the other person is still left that cant possibly count as tunneling.
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With the iteration of DS before this one, the obsession was the only one who could use it immediately on pickup, people who had it as well but were not obsession had to struggle to ~35% in order to get the skillcheck.
Let's not forget that you could dribble.
Now how it works is that no matter what, if a survivor runs into a locker with DS active, you as a killer have to either eat DS and likely prolong the chase by another 20-30sec depending on what killer you are, or you leave a survivor healthy because you're wasting time camping them out. The killer won the chase, so at the very least he should be able to decide whether to slug or not. Hopping in a locker is not skillful.
If DS was changed to not being allowed to work on lockers, that would make it a fair perk and weaker then it's previous iteration. Ultimately that in my opinion is the biggest issue with DS.
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ah yes, lets go back to when killers would dribble people to "play around" DS
ah of course, such good times
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3 times dribble. 3. And you get a free escape if he has no hook near.
It was a fair 50/50.
You near a hook? Killer gets the hook.
You are far from a hook? You escape.
It was simple as that. The survivour had to plan ahead when he knew he is going down so he ran into a place where was no hook and the killer had to choose to eat ds or TRY to dribble to a hook.
It was much more fair on both end.
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Or we leave it as is
Killer cant dribble and survivor cant BS it as much
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What bs did the old one had only being able to use it right away IF you were the obsession?
Sorry but i dont get it. The new one being way more BS by lasting a minute, being a 5 sec stun, requiring less skill to hit, no counterplay(other than time), not effected by enduring,being abused waaaay more by toxic bad survivours, EVERYONE GETS IT FOR 5 SEC STUN OBSESSION OR NOT, and of course Locker abuse.
So tell me what did the old DS had as BS? Just curious, after all this listed on the new DS. I liked to know whats in your eye seems bs in the old one.
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Survivors cant bs it? What about a free escape from the locker?
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If they removed the ability to dribble survivors, I would take Old DS in a heart beat. Current DS is too powerful and it can screw over the Killer for no reason.
Current DS should deactivate under these circumstances: You get healed, you repair a gen, you go into a locker, and during the EGC.
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Old DS was also countered by Enduring, but they quickly axed Enduring once new DS was created.
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I thought Peanit's suggestion would be the most popular lol
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