Camping and the Consequences
So for awhile now I've been of the opinion that camping is a legit strategy and survivors should just work on gens if someone is being camped. Even @Almo has said the same. However, I've changed my mind and I'll explain why.
It may seem like it's "legit", but there were changes made that reduced BP and "pipping" for this behavior. Does this mean it's inherently looked down on by the Devs? No. But it does mean they had at one point recognized it as a problem.
~ So here's the killer situation - I've hooked a survivor and now I'm going to do NOTHING and either they escape or they're dumb and come to me. I'm also not gaining points in any Emblem but devout after this guy dies. But as long as he pays for it it's all good.
~ Hooked Survivors situation - Welp here we go again. I either have to stay on this hook for 2 minutes as bait and hope my team works on gens; or kill myself and go to another lobby KNOWING that it'll likely lead to my team's loss.
~ 3 Unhooked Survivors - We should go for the save, but if we do we'll just get downed. We should work on gens, but if we do and that guy decides to give up he'll just camp another one of us.
@ClickyClicky You gave reasonable conclusions why camping shouldn't be allowed and I agree now. So thanks for providing reasons and not just statements.
@Almo While I agree that using a hooked survivor as bait CAN be a strategy, camping takes it to the next level. And with points being deducted from emblem progress for it, I believe I can safely assume BHVR did want to discourage it.
But, all that said, I have an idea for a solution. My FAVORITE perk is Hex: Devour Hope, granted totem placement is horrid and has many issues as a system in general. But I find the idea that I need to be a certain distance away from a hooked survivor for that perk to activate really fun. When paired with BBQ&Chilli it's amazing when you can get a full 5 stacks.
I believe we need more powerful perks that ONLY activate and/or gain stacks when you're a certain distance away from the hooked survivor when they're unhooked. It has to be MORE rewarding to take these perks than it is to camp. While it won't completely get rid of the problem, we could see a dropping curve of incidents. I don't see camping nearly as often as people claim but it can still be an issue.
What do you think?
Comments
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I think a big part of the issue is the late mid to end game issue. In my survivor games, I rarely (but still sometimes) see killers camping with 4-5 gens left. And at that point, I just go do more gens. But once you are down to 1-2 gens left, especially if that killer has only downed 1-2 survivors, they are going to defend the only kill they are going to get. This is doubled if it is already end game. Personally, I think BBQ not working on people in lockers has made camping slightly worse, because a lot of survivors just get in lockers when they see someone get downed, and killers have no where to go and less incentive to leave.
In addition to new, powerful perks in the vein of Devour Hope and Make Your Choice, I think there should be more perks that work like Fired Up; more powerful as the gens get done.
Something like;
Fervent Pursuit:
"The heretics at large must be brought to justice. While you are 32m away from the nearest hooked survivor, you gain 1/2/3% bonus movement speed per generator completed."
This would pressure survivors to save and give killers incentive to leave. Camping will continue to exist as long as killers feel helpless, and will be most prevalent while they do. Because every perk like what you want has a way to negate it, there aren't many good reasons to leave. (Devour breaks, BBQ has lockers, Thrilling you can get off a gen or it can be on CD, MYC can have injured people unhooking)
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This thread only has two comments and already seems overly complicated. The solution is easy, and that is to slow hook progression upwards of 90% if a killer decides to camp. Yes, that survivor on hook may still die, but it will be incredibly more punishing than it currently is. Also, who cares if the survivors are countering BBQ & Chili? What did killers do before this perk was introduced.. just sit there and wait? No, they went to check gens or other places survivors may be hiding. No killer should be relying on BBQ; it should just be bonus intel.
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The biggest issue for me comes from the exact points you laid out, no matter what point of view you are looking at, its not a fun game. If you are hooked its not fun, if you are one of the 3 left its not fun, if you are the killer its not fun.
There are some situations when camping is okay, like the post game collapse for example.
I personally think that the game should encourage instead of punish. Things like 'time speant near hooked survivors shouldnt punish you, but instead time spent AWAY from hooked survivors should reward you. If you hook a survivor and leave the area to find more, you should given a tangable and visible benefit akin to the safe and unsafe hooks.
Especially since Bloodpoints dont really affect anything monitarially (except MAYBE the shrine of secrets) they should start giving them more freely when you do things that make interesting games, vs just trying to win.
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Yeah the biggest problem is how gameplay interacts with the Emblem + BP system. It's set up in a way that rewards you for punishing the opposing side, and punishes you for getting punished.
Having a game where everyone gets a decent amount of points is honestly pretty rare. So it's been set up in such a way that it encourages both sides to be at each others throats.
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You can't encourage camping killers to stop camping, no matter what kind of blood points or emblems you throw in their face. You have to punish the practice itself in some form for it to stop.
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The issue is it already is. I played a game as killer recently and lost points when I wasn't even camping. I was just moving too close to the hook.
It's possible that it's not enough, but simply punishing killers for being too close to a hook isn't the solution either. Which is why I mentioned making perks that people want to use more than they want to camp.
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tbh i wouldnt mind slower progression if the killer is facecamping. It would be pretty easy to have a distance that punishes that while allowing proxy camp/defending the hook if they try to unhook before you even leave.
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Nothing will stop a killer from camping. Rank means nothing. If a player wants to camp because they find it fun to ruin your experience, that's what they'll do. Unfortunately there are people like that and they use NOED in order to be rewarded for that play style. We can suggest, recommend, scream, yell, whatever and anything. Nothing will stop them from doing it.
"But they get less BP." So what? They got more than you did. THEY. DON'T. CARE.
"That's not fun." It is to them. They eat it up. They freaking love it. This is how they play. They laugh at you complaining about it in the post game chat. If you stream, they pull it up and bask in your rage. THEY. DON'T. CARE.
The next time you're getting camped; don't rage and don't get angry. Just, DON'T CARE, because they don't care either.
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Intel that there is no one far away is intel that they are probably nearby.
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Agreed , nothing will be done about camping and complaining about it over and over still won't convince the Devs to change the layout of the game , I have even made a suggestion to even have an in-game penilty for camping killers to get re-spawned halfway across the map if they didn't leave by a certain time or radius , but much like other fans of the games ideas that are suggested on the site , thats all they are is suggestions and nothing will be done so just Buck up and bend over and take it like the rest of us ! Unfair game play is making UNSKILLED players feel like they are the best players in the world . Its kinda sad but thats the way it is !
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Camping killers don't care about penalties, especially if camping is working for them. Instead of adding penalties give rewards to the survivor. Give the hooked survivor extra BP for the killer camping. It won't stop camping but atleast it will have the survivor earn something for staying on the hook. Maybe distraction points plus % of points for each generator completed while on the hook. It'd encourage survivors to not kill themselves while on the hook.
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