Survivor are in need a major nerf/rework.
So let me start by showing some fact. it take 80 sec doing a gen whitout any tools , alone, providing you don't hit any great skill check. it take 120 second for someone to die on a hook. Survivors not only have numerical advantage and the ability to apply presure on an average of 2 or 3 differant gens (If we consider that at all time, 2 survivor are either healing/in a chase/on a hook). but they also have lots of perk to give themselves even more time, negate their own bad play and to litteraly remove the need of other survivor and being able to carry themself. You don't even need these perk anyway, you got body blocking,flashlight save. hook saboting, the ability to do bones and remove killer perks.
What does killer get? between 5 and 15% more mouvement speed (Unless you are nurse and you are acctualy slower then a survivor...) A power that depend on your killer and that are questionably weak for some. when you need addon to do well, it an issue. Survivors got tons of perks to extand chase time, and item to slow down killer doing his objectives. You would think it the same for killer right? Wrong. Sure killer has option, but only has perk and these perk are questionably usefull..
Pop- Probably the best killer perk atm. it the only reliable perk that any killer can use to slow down generator speed, the requirement to use it okay and reward killer for avoiding camping.
Thanatophobia- It trash. it only slow by 4%, assuming all survivor are injured or on hook. If all survivor are injured, they probably wont be on gens. It can work on some niche build like Plague, if you face people that refuse so cleanse...
Dying light- only give 3% per hook and cap at 27% if you have hooked everyone trice except the Obsession. The downside being that the obsession heal other faster and un-hook faster. It real bad. By the time the repair speed debuff become relevant, you don't need it anymore. The time you win on gens is also slightly negated by the fact survivor heal faster if they play they card right.
Hex Ruin- has the downside of being a Hex, a relly weak one now that it got nerfed.It only work on generator that aren't worked on...so it don't slow down survivor unless they love to stop repairing at 60% to randomly find another gen...
Hex Huntress lullaby- Weak for a hex, take to much token to become usefull and revolve around the survivor to make mistake. Survivor wont miss skillcheck after 40+ hours of playing...
Remember me- Affect door opening time up to 16 seconds... not relly that usefull, you can play trapper or hag and set trap and it would make a better endgame build than this.
Blood warden- Is the endgame version of pop. Require you to be sure to have someone to hook when endgame happend. it not that bat, but it is certainly a gimmicky perk for endgame build.
Corrupt intervention- this one is kinda weird in term of usefullness. A must have if you play trapper or hag. on other killer too, it a risk that depend on the survivors.Will they try and find the 3 unblocked gens or will they simply do chest and bones? In all case it make them lose them and make chase start earlier but you need survivors to try and do those 3 openend gens. The downside is it becoming a dead perk after 2 minutes. A decent perk
Thrilling Tremors- same problem as Hex ruin, but this one can work on ultra aggresive slug build with oni or legion.
Surge- A good perk if you can down survivor where you want.
With all those perk, arguably 3-4 of them are viable, and only a single one of those can relly be slapped into any build.
The second issue with survivor is still related to perk.
Survivor strenght and weakness should be their teams. Alone they are weak, together they are strong. Sadly it not relly the case with all the perks that remove that need of having teamate helping you. Im talking about perk like selfcare, unbreakable, no mither, delivrance, those kind of perk. of course not all of them are op meta perk, but the issue stay the same. You can do something yourself that wouls usually require another survivor to do. It give your team a hudge time save. let just take self care for exemple. if you don't have it, that force one injured survivor to get healed by someone. so you got 2 people off gens minimum. if you have selfcare. only the injured one aint on gens and can heal himself. worst case senario, a chase is going on and 2 gens max are worked on till the injured person is healed. Self care make it so there alway one more person on gens. If you can go around survivor weakness of needing teamate, it useless to make them a team in the first place. these perk make your whole team stronger and give so much of a time boost...
Then we got the second chance perks. this post is getting real long so i will resume it real fast. Killer can't do play, they relly on survivor mistake. Survivors already need to be hooked trice. so in total for a 4k you need to down survivor 12 times. you hit survivors for a minimum of 24 times, assuming your killer don't oneshot and that survivor got no second chance perk. This number is relly hight and second chance perk turn those number way bigger when the entire team use them, and most of the time they do. that being said If the whole gameplay of killer relly on using survivors mistake, how come the survivor get a way to completly destroy any kind of advantage the killer had by playing correctly?
Now come the rant on camping and tunneling.
Yes I agree, camping suck, yet killer get extremly punished by the ranking system for doing it, no matter what the situation. My problem with this is, Why punishing the killer? they will lose if the survivor simply rush gens. it should be up to the survivor to counter that, not the game. The current system also punish killer who camp when the 3 other survivor swarm the hook before the killer has time to leave, and in that situation, camping should be the killer option and it should be rewarding them for playing correctly.
Yea I agree, it not fun bein tunneled. but why does survivors have SO many perk to counter it. Relly even whitout perks you can sabotage hook, flashlight save, body block. and then even if you still want another safer option there is BT. Why is the killer punished by so many counter cause they try to use the best logical way to slow down the game? Imagine if killer had a perk that punished you real hard by resetting a gen cause you worked on it insted of randomly jumping into a gen that at 0%... it just stupid.
Now im done ranting so I will finish this post talking about DS and OoO.
Everyone talk about how DS is strong and got op combo with other perk, so I think it just easy to fix those. Remove locker+ds combo, make it so it Unbreakable and DS have a shared ''Exhaustion-ish'' coldown so you can create a perfectly safe situation. I would personally just remove this perk or rework it cosidering survivor already got so many anti tunnel perk this one is overkill. Lastly, I would make it so hitting another survivor skip the 60 second on DS, cause that just not tunelling anymore and that prevent all the stupid save you could abuse with DS.
Just rework OoO, it litteraly a survivor nerfed version of old freddy Dreamworld. it make SWF so strong.
So what should be changed, well I think there a couple of options, notes I don't find all those option perfect, but yea. here they are. And let me be clear, i don't want ALL the option to be done. only maybe 1 or 2 of them so the survivor don't become useless.
- Nerf survivor second chance perk
- Nerf survivor self reliancer perk (self care and co)
- Buff killer Gens/gate pressure perk.
- Give killer a better way in their base kit to slow down gens.
- Keep survivor perk as they are, but make them die on second hook.
- Keep survivor perk as they are, but survivor each only have 2 or 3 slots.
Comments
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This was such a waste of your time. You were wrong by paragraph one. Hopefully it made you feel better tho. 👍
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lol is this satire?
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A literal selfish and utterly biased interpretation of 'balance', not worthy of more than the laziest of eye rolls.
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Killers: Survivors are OP, BHVR HELP!
*BHVR Releases a patch completely removing many safe pallets/infinites in every map, plus nerfing Gen speeds*
Killers the next day: SURVIVORS ARE STILL TOO OP! Remove their ability to run plz.
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Remove jungle gyms! nerf t and l walls!!! Delete bus and shack loops!!!
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Gen speed did'nt get touch and anyone saying it changed, has wrongly read the patch note. The only time it will be affected is if 4 survivor work on the same gens whitout the gens speed perk. Meaning the gens speed dosen't change if survivor work on differant gens. Still say what you want, but there a reason survivor queu time is long and there a reason you often see red ranked survivor in your match as a low rank killer.
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Your joking right?
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Wouldn't it be amazing if these killer mains played solo survivor queue half the time.
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im not, I just thing that if killer start with a time disadvantage, maybe the survivor should not have so many tools to waste the killer time, atm it seem like survivor are made for competitive gameplay and the killer kit look like a party game on. There a reason most player made turnament add rules to nerf gen speed.
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So basically what you're saying is that you want a free win every single game you play? Nice.
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Yeah I said this was coming weeks ago. They won’t be happy until it’s 4k every game.
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This guys changes would literally make it impossible for a survivor to escape through the doors lol
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No, you've read it wrong, it has effected all generators with more than one person on it, usually when generators are being worked on by more than one person the speed is decreased by 10%, this is now 15%
"The repair speed Efficiency Debuff for each Survivor working on a generator has been increased to 15% (up from 10%)."
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Use some meta killers and perks, see will it change your gameplay. It feels amazing when have meta perks
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No, what I want for killer is to be able to do 2k in a reliable way. what how the dev want to balance the game and that how the ranking system work. If you don't 3k or + whitout camping as killer you wont pip, Survivor can pip whitout escaping or doing great, And you know what the issue with that? Survivor have a way to easy time escaping atm. they got so much tools to waste killer time and to have tons of second chances that game are completly unbalanced. Game last around 5-6 mins, considering it take 2 min for someon to die on a hook, that say a lot about the game state. Either survivor keep all these op tools, but gen are slowed in a heavy way ( cause now survivor will just work on differant gens and do match quicker, the update simply punish survivor who did'nt use the best way to gen rush btw..) or survivor lose most their survival tool and the gens are left that way.
Killer can't do play, we relly on survivor mistakes. all we can do is try and bait, but it still up to the survivor to make mistake. So why does survivor have so many second chance perk? this should'nt be a thing. How come survivor mistake be trivialised if the other side completly relly on those mistake to do anything? would you find it fair if perk did the same for killers? Would you find it fun if killer had a perk that gave them stupid buff cause they got blind or cause you sabotaged a hook in front of them?
Survior also have so much room trying to do stuff whitout any kind of danger. Wanna try a flash light save? worst case senario, you miss it and you can simply walk away, the killer don't have the time nor the speed to attack you when they got someone on their shoulder. Best case senario? You waste killer time and can take a hit for your friend and waste the killer time even more.
These tools the survivor have is what make the game unbalanced, not just because ''survivor stronk lolool'' no, the issue lie deeper.
The best way for survivor to win, is gen rushing, you don't need ANYTHING to do that by the way, ignore other survivor is the best way to win. Survivor should rely on there team. Survivor can do anything themself now with perk. The game is basicly a 1v1v1v1vkiller, but survivor can decide to help eachother...
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Yes I agree, camping suck, yet killer get extremly punished by the ranking system for doing it, no matter what the situation. My problem with this is, Why punishing the killer?
You answered your own question.
Yea I agree, it not fun bein tunneled. but why does survivors have SO many perk to counter it.
You answered your own question.
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Exactly why these threads are just memes lol
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LOL
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Surge is a good perk? Imo the regression being base speed and there being a long cooldown kills the perk.
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I play 50/50 killer and survivor but mainly killer and just no. I feel as if this post was made because you went up against a Red Rank SWF and they absolutely clapped you.
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Survivor can punish the killer with camping, The game should'nt help them more. Camping should be the go to strat if people swarm the hook, yet the game punish me for not letting the 3 other survivor do a stupid move and reward them for doing the worst possible strat they could do in that situation.
Survivor can counter survivor by body blocking, they should'nt need perk to deny the killer.. killing fast. If your going to punish tunelling then they should punnish gen rushing as much, that how thing work.
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Me and my friend are not near being god survivor yet we can easily pull out 4 man escape 3 or 4 man escape with non meta perk or no perk at all.
It way harder for a killer to pull out a 3 man or 4 man kill with no perk.
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For an average person yes. I can 3k or 4k with The Doctor or Freddy with no perks. Granted I have a little over a thousand hours with them. The point of perks is to assist you in winning the game, to give you a little advantage. No one is asking you to play without perks, if you do and then you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself. The idea that survivors need to be nerfed or changed is ridiculous lets be honest, you're complaining about Self Care.. which in my opinion is not even meta because you're better off using a med kit or finding teammates. The killer perks you mentioned are perfectly fine when used CORRECTLY and on the correct people. The only one I do think needs a change is Dying Light. Everything else can change the game when used coupled with another perk.
Long story short, If you hate survivors using meta perks, then use meta killer perks. Throw on NOED with Blood Warden, do whatever you want.
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nice meme I laughed
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Majority of killers arent like this. Same with survivors. Problem is it's the louder voices that get heard.
As for the post, we are in one of the most balanced states the game has been in for a good while. Survivors don't need a nerf, maybe a perk or two need one, same with killers, but neither side needs a huge nerf or buff at the moment.
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If survivors do generators while the killer is camping, the killer is getting punished for his lazy playstyle.
If survivors swarm the hook, the killer gets exactly what he wants when he camps: They dont do generators. What else do you want?
Of course there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast. There are also perks for the killer to kill faster (Noed, Safe the best for last, Play with your food, Spirit fury, Bamboozle etc etc) and to slow down generators. I dont understand why you complain about this.
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First, I don't complain about Self care bein op or meta. it the idea behind the perk that I dislike. Survivor should relly on their team, that should be their weakness. any perk or item that let you do something alone, that would require someone else help, mean there one more person on gens.
My point with the perkless thing is that if perkless survivor feel more strong than perkless killer, maybe there a balance issue that need to be adressed. I don't feel any pressure playing survivor cause even whitout good perk, it feel like im safe, and I think it not how you should feel as survivor. Just watch some survivor stream where they can simply listen to relaxing music while they play, Killer can't do the same cause they need the game sound, but I think you get the point. Killer is alone, at no point the role should feel weak, they should be the one putting pressure on the survivor shoulder. but for some reason it the other way around.
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50% of all survivors are solo. Your queues are gonna take a hit if you make the game unplayable for them.
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Okay, lets compare practicality:
- Gens take 80 seconds to fix, 47 with 2, 38 with 3. Working with 3 people on 1 gen isnt practical
- Total hooktime is 120 seconds, but the average game, you get saved within 30 seconds, meaning practical hooktime is 60 seconds, unless you're camping the hook.
- When 1 person is being healed, while you're chasing 1 person, that means at most only 1 person can do gens.
- Second chance perks only work if you're allowing them to work. BT doesnt work if you dont hit the unhooked survivor for 15 seconds, DS doesnt work if you dont go after the unhooked survivor. Borrowed Time doesnt work well if you slug people too long. Basically, for second chance perks to fail, all you need to do is not chase someone who got fresh off the hook. If you can somehow slug all 4 survivors, start picking up in the order that you downed them, rather than picking up the last one you hit. Because by that time, the chance of DS are practically 0.
Self-care sucks, no mither sucks(seriously, if you slug someone with no mither, who is obviously in broken status, and dont pick them up for 30 seconds, its your fault), deliverance is a double bladed sword, you can free yourself, but only after you unhooked someone, and even then you get broken and it doesnt work if you're the last survivor either. The only "second chance" perk I could grant you, is Adrenaline, but even Adrenaline only works when you're injured/downed while the 5th gen starts. An adrenaline play is so rare, that its practically worthless unless the killer slugged you and closes the hatch before picking you up.
And yeah, how much it sucks someone jumping in a locker with DS, it's in your best interest to simply leave them alone. Either that, or camp the locker for 40 seconds+ seconds.
"yet killer get extremly punished by the ranking system for doing it, no matte
r what the situation. My problem with this is, Why punishing the killer? they will lose if the survivor simply rush gens."
Camping is being discouraged by not rewarding it with pips. The same reason why a 4k with Ebony Mori doesnt reward you with pips. It's simply a boring way of playing.
"but why does survivors have SO many perk to counter it. Relly even whitout perks you can sabotage hook, flashlight save, body block. and then even if you still want another safer option there is BT. "
Tunneling cant be punished with removing pips, as there is no real difference between chasing a survivor and a freshly unhooked survivor, so there are perks to discourage that. However: "Why is the killer punished by so many counter cause they try to use the best logical way to slow down the game?" This is not the case. DS doesnt work unless you want to hook someone. BT actually can work in your favour by hitting the unhooked survivor(if they dont have BT, then you slug the unhooked survivor, forcing someone else to heal him up, AKA less people doing gens), while you chase the other survivor. Picking up a person to hook them again, is less logical than slugging them and going for someone else.
"Remove locker+ds combo, make it so it Unbreakable and DS have a shared ''Exhaustion-ish'' coldown so you can create a perfectly safe situation."
You do realise that it takes 2 perk slots for DS and Unbreakable to even work, right? Thats like saying "nerf selfcare and botany knowledge". Or even: dont make Sloppy Butcher and Thanatophobia stack. Would you be okay with Thana and Sloppy being mutually exclusive, when there is no real reason to do so, other than the reason that they have synergy. Or how about Ruin and Surveillance? Or Overcharge and Unnerving Presence? Some strong synergies exist, and again, if someone wastes their unbreakable early in the game, then you know you can slug them late game without them having any means of picking themselves up.
- Nerf survivor second chance perk
- Nerf survivor self reliancer perk (self care and co)
- Buff killer Gens/gate pressure perk.
- Give killer a better way in their base kit to slow down gens.
- Keep survivor perk as they are, but make them die on second hook.
- Keep survivor perk as they are, but survivor each only have 2 or 3 slots.
Lets quickly recap:
- only works when you tunnel in the first place
- self aiding perks actually suck hard. The only reason they are used at all is in case of incompetent survivors(or survival points). We'll make it is 10x stronger than Self-Care.
- Those perks are fine as is. The whole thing about killer is not to tunnel survivors too much, and knowing when to quit a chase. If the perks do all the pressure for you, then survivors should have perks that relieve that pressure, meaning they'd have very strong perks to counter a killer who doesnt use those perks, meaning those perks are basically enforced on killers. Pressure comes from the player, not the perks.
- They already do: go to a gen, kick it, scout out a potential 3-gen and defend that 3-gen.
- Then you might aswell make ebony mori a baseline perk. No, 3 hooks per survivor, otherwise I'd have no reason to not tunnel.
- You do realize that a killer perk is about 3 times stronger than the survivor perk? Meaning that if survivors do not counter a perk, you have a really strong perk, and that it takes 4 survivors using 4 perk slots to overcome a single killer perk? I mean, lets take Sloppy Butcher(one of the stronger killer perks atm), now, survivors can use Autodidact to kinda counter it. However, to get 3+ stacks of autodidact each it requires at least 1 healthstate(if they are lucky) and at most 4 health states. It's extremely strong if everyone has 3+ stacks of autodidact, as it completely counters Sloppy at that point, but leaves less room for other perks. Then if you see people scatter away from a gen before your terror radius even reaches there, then you know they have Spine Chill. Another perkslot gone. Basically, its a game if figuring out perks. If survivors dont suspect a NOED, then you get a free NOED. If they cleanse the easy to spot bones first, that increases the chance of NOED spawning on a hard to spot place.
The game is actually a lot more balanced than most people think or realize. Sure, some maps are super strong for survivors, but some maps are also super strong for killers. Sure, some maps have strong pallet loops, but other maps lack pallets and windows, and the ones they do have are very weak and can only realistically be used once.
As you've obviously seen before, I am of the opinion that the exit gate needs nerfing, but that is truly the only place for survivors that really need nerfing. Some killers actually need buffing, some survivor perks actually need buffing. Hell, I am of the opinion that survivors should have a semi-insignificant passive that only works when they carry their own perks(Obviously in tiers, up to 3 tiers, for example, Meg is an athlete, it makes sense for her exhaustion to go down faster than Bill's, even if its just 1 second difference).
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Long story but in summary you wanna nerf survivor more.
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I am completely agree with all of above, even though I did not read it.
I would like to suggest the following:
1. Increase the number of gens to power the gate -- should be increased to 15 from 5
2. All gens on all maps should form a tight circle around Killer's shack with basement
3. There should be more than one basement on the map
4. Dying light and Thanatophobia should be included into each killer power, without taking a perk slot
5. Toolboxes and BNP should regress gen
6. Second chance perks must reduce 1 health state, for instance, Adrenaline slows your down for 3 sec and takes one health state when activated
7. All maps has to be reduced by size to 1/4 of the current
8. All pallets needs to be removed
9. Survivors must start the match in dying state
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So if you're a solo survivor, you don't like the idea of the ability to heal yourself 50% slower than normal? It takes about what 35 seconds to heal with Self care? Vs the 15 or 16 seconds to be healed by another teammate? As killer I would expect you to prefer Self care users since that's 35 seconds NOT spent on Gens even more if you run an anti healing build.
I get what you're saying, that survivors need to be more reliant on their team, and I can agree to some extent. Unfortunately, there are many solo survivors who can't rely on teammates so they need perks that better benefit a solo play style.
As a survivor, yes you can feel a little more safe without any perks because there are 4 of you. A killer who can't apply pressure to any of the 4 survivors who have no perks on needs to better himself. As far as game sound goes, I believe it is the other way around, I can play music and dominate as killer, but as survivor if its too loud in my party chat, then I can't hear anything. It all derives on play style.
A killer without perks VS 4 survivors without perks, I still believe the killer has the advantage if you're well enough.
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I think the game is perfect rn
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Hold up. You think this will give the killer only a chance to 2k consistently? As it stands, a good killer right now will win a good portion of the games they play. If you were to add more gen time and ability to stop gates, more gen stalling powers, the amount of perks a survivor can have and on top of this give them only 2 hook states you would crush any team.
Literally even a Swat SWF couldn't beat a killer unless they were absolutely terrible. If a killer had even an inkling of skill, every team they faced would get steamrolled.
I don't consider myself to be a fantastic killer, but I think I'm good. I've logged 44 of my last killer games on PS4 at rank 1 and it took me until yesterday, on game 39 to finally get a result less than a 3K. Killer isn't as difficult as you think it is if you know what to do. People just don't want to learn from their mistakes, they want their mistakes to be fixed by somebody else.
The game right now is fine. It doesn't need anymore drastic changes.
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''If survivors do generators while the killer is camping, the killer is getting punished for his lazy playstyle.''
I agree and that fine.
''If survivors swarm the hook, the killer gets exactly what he wants when he camps: They dont do generators. What else do you want?''
For the ranking system to not punish the killer. If you manage to get the 4 of them on hook cause they swarmed you, congrat, you will de-pip. casue the gamre drain your point for camping and cause you did'nt chase them or hit them enought. In that case the killer did a real good play and punished the survivor for not only playing bad but doing the worst play possible. but the game make you lose rank for playing correctly cause ''The game was not fun, survivor din't get to unhook and get chased enought''.
''Of course there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast. There are also perks for the killer to kill faster (Noed, Safe the best for last, Play with your food, Spirit fury, Bamboozle etc etc) and to slow down generators. I dont understand why you complain about this.''
First, no, I don't think there should be perks to deny the killer killing fast, let me explain why. (this is my opinion too, I don't think removing all survivors perks that deny kill is a good thing.)
Even if you kill someone fast, there still 3 of them who can work on their objectives, and their objective take less time to do. So a good killer need to have survivors off the generators as much as possible. TONS of survivor perk reduce the time or number of people of generator due to how they work.Any perk that work in the same way as Self care give time to your team, If you can do something alone, that should require 2 survivors, that mean that no one else need to get off gens and help you, they don't need to waste time getting off gens, finding you, healing you and going back to their gens. that a lot of time saved, and that on a perk that far from being broken or meta... Now add Second chance perk and exhaustion perk it had a lot of time to chase, so more time for you to do gen and less time for killer to apply pressure elsewhere. All those perks indirectly nerf killer killing speed, does survivor relly need perk to slow down killer speed when they already have that many tools doing it? And then you need to consider that the killer is at his weakest at the start of the game. Facing 4 people who can slow your progress down when you need to rely on them doing mistake leave little place for play for the killer.
As for killer perk helping you kill faster... NoED give you a second chance if survivor did'nt do bone
Safe the best for last rely on you playing a m1 killer and hoping the obsession will ignore you all game long and not body block. The perk is good but far from being a extremly reliable way to kill faster no matter what killer you use.
Play with your food require build-up you keep losing for a max of 5% that will only happend if the obsession let themself be chase trice whitout you chasing anyone else. It relly to much on survivor doing mistakes.
Spirit Fury. Has nothing to do with your kill potential, you also don't want to break all pallet and it would be a waste if it trigger on a unsafe pallet.
Bamboozle .... Only good for nurse, if you vault as killer you probably doing something wrong, or the survivor wont be returning to that vault anyway.
So all the killer perk that help killing (even NoED) depend on survivors doing something wrong. Lots of them also have downside. while survivor downside of second chance or anything that give them time is either ''I can use it only once'' or ''it has coldown''. One use perk like DS are still extremly strong so that not much of a downside. and CD aren't an issue either...
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Your are delusional and probably never played killer if you think DS got a good counter and isin't a god perk. you also think Killer perk are 3 time as strong as survivor perk.... lol just no. Most killer perk depend on survivor doing mistake
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I specified that all the nerf I suggested should not all be implimented and only maybe one or two should.
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Yeah, you're wrong. This post was not worth the time you put into it
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I think the game is as fair now as it can be. It's never going to be perfect balance for everyone.
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3 upvotes does not mean all killers. Just saying.
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For the ranking system to not punish the killer. If you manage to get the 4 of them on hook cause they swarmed you, congrat, you will de-pip. casue the gamre drain your point for camping and cause you did'nt chase them or hit them enought. In that case the killer did a real good play and punished the survivor for not only playing bad but doing the worst play possible. but the game make you lose rank for playing correctly cause ''The game was not fun, survivor din't get to unhook and get chased enought''.
I can not really tell if this is getting punished by the ranking system because in my 2000 hours as killer i did not camp a single time. When survivors are swarming around the hook after i hook someone, which happens frequently, thats great! Actually amazing! A free target, maybe even multible. I dont even have to look for the next survivor. Explain me how this is bad for the killer? Those games are the most easy to win.
Even if you kill someone fast, there still 3 of them who can work on their objectives, and their objective take less time to do. So a good killer need to have survivors off the generators as much as possible. TONS of survivor perk reduce the time or number of people of generator due to how they work.Any perk that work in the same way as Self care give time to your team, If you can do something alone, that should require 2 survivors, that mean that no one else need to get off gens and help you, they don't need to waste time getting off gens, finding you, healing you and going back to their gens. that a lot of time saved, and that on a perk that far from being broken or meta... Now add Second chance perk and exhaustion perk it had a lot of time to chase, so more time for you to do gen and less time for killer to apply pressure elsewhere. All those perks indirectly nerf killer killing speed, does survivor relly need perk to slow down killer speed when they already have that many tools doing it? And then you need to consider that the killer is at his weakest at the start of the game. Facing 4 people who can slow your progress down when you need to rely on them doing mistake leave little place for play for the killer.
Lets talk about how a (or at leat my typcial) scenario as a killer is:
- One survivor is on the hook (not on a gen)
- One survivor is going for the safe (not on a gen)
- One survivor is getting chased (not on a gen)
- One survivor is (hopefully for the team) on a gen
This is a typical rotation in pretty much all of my games as a killer. Normally there is 1 survivor on a gen, and the rest is busy not falling apart. It becomes really nasty when someone is slugged, which happens often in my games. Then its usually game over, unless they have unbreakable or very good coordination. Thats totally fine tho, since also my perks helped me to get those kills / downs.
A killer is in fact weak in the early, but becomes significantly stronger the longer the game goes. Pallets are gone, playfield is smaller, gens are easy to patrol. I think they should ballance the difference between early (killer too weak) and lategame (killer too strong), but thats it.
I simply dont see all those weaknesses you are talking about... where you see a problem, i see an oppotunity. Self care for example is just hindering the survivor team, there is nothing better to see a guy on my BBQ sitting somewhere wasting time healing himself.
As for killer perk helping you kill faster... NoED give you a second chance if survivor did'nt do bone
A second chance perk nethertheless.
Safe the best for last rely on you playing a m1 killer and hoping the obsession will ignore you all game long and not body block. The perk is good but far from being a extremly reliable way to kill faster no matter what killer you use.
Yes, for M1 killer. Any killer that is not considered an M1 killer is more the powerful enough to not need any perks. Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Huntress. If someone cant win with those killers and has to complain about, it might be time to follow Matheiu Cote's advise (play civilization instead)
where you see this perk good, i see it as an amazing perk. Cuts my chases to half when i have 8 stacks, which is not taking a lot of time / effort to get.
Spirit Fury. Has nothing to do with your kill potential, you also don't want to break all pallet and it would be a waste if it trigger on a unsafe pallet.
Spirit fury is a free hit each 3 pallets. If this has nothing to do with chase potential, then i dont know what you even devine as chase potenial / kill speed.
Bamboozle .... Only good for nurse, if you vault as killer you probably doing something wrong, or the survivor wont be returning to that vault anyway.
Only good for nurse?
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''So if you're a solo survivor, you don't like the idea of the ability to heal yourself 50% slower than normal? It takes about what 35 seconds to heal with Self care? Vs the 15 or 16 seconds to be healed by another teammate? As killer I would expect you to prefer Self care users since that's 35 seconds NOT spent on Gens even more if you run an anti healing build.''
Even if you heal yourself longer with selfcare, there be 2 or 3 other gens being worked on. if you lack health care you need to find someone, or the other way around, to be healed, that make 1 less gen worked on in average and keep another survivor busy, making it more easy for the killer to have pressure on the map. This is why I hate it when people bring out the ''Generator nerf'' of last patch. It only a nerf if survivor work on the same gen, and even before the nerf it was a bad thing to do. the issue i have with healthcare is not that it heal fast or not. my issue is that it mean that each time you use health care, there only one person of gen instead of two.
''I get what you're saying, that survivors need to be more reliant on their team, and I can agree to some extent. Unfortunately, there are many solo survivors who can't rely on teammates so they need perks that better benefit a solo play style.''
If you play survivor, you need to accept you relly on your team. that it. The issue with these kind of perk is that they are annoying for the killer, and the real problem is that survivor who play as a team can exploit them in some unfair way. I will use DS as an explample. Yes, DS would be fine if it only effect was to prevent tunelling when no one help you (even too I think you should relly on people helping you). The issue is that if you get unhook and have DS. you basicly have a whole minute where you can body block with no consequences for you. if you go down, killer can't pick you up. if he does, you get away. in all case you can force the killer to lose time on top of having a immunity to tunnel because a teamate unhooked you unsafely/ you just got found by the killer b4 one minute pass. And that considering there 4 people who can use it in that way+ we assume you don't have any perk that can do bullshit combo with it. Survivor should work as a team if they want protection, they should not get it for free the only thing you relly need teamate for now is unhooking... The killer has to work solo, would you think it be fine if they could counter that weakness by having a perk that let them invite a second killer? I think we can both agree it would'nt be fun...
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''Spirit fury is a free hit each 3 pallets. If this has nothing to do with chase potential, then i dont know what you even devine as chase potenial / kill speed.''
You still get stun even if the pallet break on you.,, Have you ever used that perk?
''Only good for nurse?''
There is only 3 reason a killer should be vaulting.
Case 1: You play nurse, it can be hard to hit some one who vault while you try to blink on them, it can be worth blocking vault with bamboozle on certain loop in that case.
Case 2: you just hit a survivor while they were vaulting out of a building, now you need to go for the second hit and vaulting is the fastest way to catch them up or you simply need to pick them up .
Case 3: your using legion power.
If you are vaulting for other reason, you're probably doing something wrong like doing loop wrong and you would savve yourself a perk slot by learning how to mindgame a survivor around those. That or your vaulting in a situation the survivor would'nt use the vault anyway so it a wast of Bamboozle.
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Nerf this and nerf that. Yeah 80 seconds vs 120 to die on a hook doesn’t seem fair. But that’s why there’s thanataphobia and the probability that multiple people can go down and get hooked making it hard to do all of those gens. There aren’t 5 survivors to make it 120 seconds to match 120 seconds on the hook. there are 4 survivors doing 5 gens. So where is your math.
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Second chance perks are necessary. Killers get downs so easy a lot of the time 😂 so how would that be fun for survivors? they took out loops too and made maps smaller. All I see are killer buffs here stop it.
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You still get stun even if the pallet break on you.,, Have you ever used that perk?
I guess i should have mentioned spirit fury and enduring, a very common combo, still semi-popular, some call it a one trick pony, i call it a free hit. After the enduring nerf it got a bit less popular, but it is still viable. Nevertheless it is definitly helping you to "kill faster".
Uff, have i used that perk? Hm i think i used it in the last... i dont know... 5.000 killer games on rank 1 maybe 1 or 2 times.
There is only 3 reason a killer should be vaulting.
It is quiet amusing when someone tries to teach a lesson when this person thinks it is a good idea to use Bamboozle on Nurse. sorry and no offense, but if you really thinking that way we are probably so far separeted in terms of knowledge and skill that there is no point in even discussing anymore.
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1 - they have slowed down gen speed if more than one person is on it
2 - the perks that "give more time" are usually situational and a lot of them can be avoided which makes them useless
3 - Killer speed - use play with your food, there are add ons for the nurse to make her faster but there is a reason her base speed is slow, its because she can blink...through walls not to mention
4 - killers have plenty of perks that are good, you just have to work out which ones go well together for the killer that you are playing
5 - if you know someone has no mither then don't slug. easy as that. everyone knows you can get up with that perk if slugged. unbreakable is a 1 time use per game. not many people slug these days anyway. deliverance, you need to safe unhook someone before its even active. these are also situational
6 - Tunnelling/Camping - flashlight save and body blocking are also situational. someone has to be near you at the time. same with sabotaging hooks and even if someone sabotages then there are other hooks so close by. and BT? killers wouldn't have to counter these if they didn't tunnel or camp. easy fix.
so basically you don't want survivors to have any perks. you want them all nerfed. what about killer? just as an example....
- Mori's
- NOED
- Devour Hope
- BBQ
- nurses calling
- one hit killers
- hillbilly who can go from one side of the map to the other in seconds
- perks to make the killer move faster
- perks to take away their terror radius
- tombstone myers
- bloodlust
- scratched mirror myers
- Iri heads for huntress
- teleporting killers like hag and freddy
- soon all maps with breakable walls
- smaller maps which will be an advantage to killers
oh and shall we talk about how each killer has their own ability...like doctor who's shock therapy can go quite far with the right perks. should i keep going.
don't get me wrong, i don't really have an issue with any of these except iri heads and ebony mori. my point is, you are complaining about perks where most of them are situational and would be useless if you didn't camp or tunnel. also a post about getting punished for so many things but you should also look at it on the flip side too.
put map offerings on, one that works well for the killer you are playing. Eg the game works well with nurse and doctor
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This is the longest WRONG! I’ve ever read.
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no lol
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In my opinion the way BHVR should address gen speeds is by increasing the the total time by 20s to 100s / 1:40 or revert the Bad Perk: Ruin back to its original form.
But overall the game's in a good state, it's just a matter of the map your playing on and killer. (ez)
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