Let's end this now, the NOED post to rule them all.

Negitive

There are many things in this game that are broken currently, for both sides. We need to stop letting personal preference about perks get in the way and try and look at both sides of the story, it won't be easy but It's the best we have if we all truly want a balanced game. Let's start with a controversial one: NOED

NOED gives the exposed status effect once the exit gates are powered, unless of course the survivors have cleansed all of the dull totems in the match, there can be upwards of 5 dull totems in a match, less if the killer is using hex totems such as Hex: Ruin. There are a few ways of looking at NOEDs effects:

1: NOED Rewards Killers for failing

2: NOED Punishes Survivors for failing to cleanse totems

3: NOED Punishes Survivors for doing generators (Very similar to View #1)

4: NOED Rewards killers for protecting dull totems

5: NOED Punishes Survivors for Gen-rushing (This is almost exactly the same as #3, but it's in the killers point of view rather than the survivors point of view)

(Please point out if you have another view of how you see NOED)

We can break these viewpoints up into 2 categories, for now we'll call them the For NOED, and Against NOED parties. 1 and 3 are in the Against NOED Team, and 2, 4, and 5 are in the For NOED Team.

The For NOED Team generally has the following arguments as their main arguments:

If you just cleanse dull totems then you won't get hit by NOED anyway.

The Killer only has 3 perks the whole game until the last generator is done.

The Against NOED Team has the following arguments as their main arguments:

Cleansing dull totems take a significant amount of time due to the fact you have to find them before you can cleanse them.

NOED is just not fun to play against because it can rob you of a deserved escape with an instant dying state attack.

There are many other arguments, but these are most common from what I have seen. As seen above a persons view on NOED is often influenced by which side of the game a person "mains", most often survivors will vote against NOED and killers will vote for NOED. To help remedy the situation I encourage all players to try the side you play less frequently and have NOED be involved in the game, as a killer equip NOED and see how much of a difference it makes when it comes down to how many kills you get. As a survivor it is less easy to control how often NOED is involved in a game, but that does play a role from the survivors point of view, see how much of a difference it makes trying to cleanse all the dull totems, maybe even try and record how long on average it takes to confirm that NOED won't activate, and at the end see if the killer even had NOED in the first place.

Once you have played as the opposite role, re-evaluate where you stand on the NOED issue. I personally think that NOED should be changed, I've played survivor and killer relatively equally, and I personally think that there are a lot of things that need addressing right now, NOED, how fast gens are getting done, looping as a concept and much more that I can't detail here. Please try and keep the replies civil, and try and avoid just repeating the arguments mentioned in this post, It's not going to help, that's why I listed them. (Also, I know this has been done to death, that's why I made this post, hopefully we can document all the NOED stuff here so that we can stop having 12 NOED posts every 20 minutes, maybe it won't work :/ but at least I tried)

NekoTorvic

I prefer to play killer, mostly because survivor gameplay is a bit dull to me. But I try to play both almost equally to understand both sides, their advantages, shortcomings and frustrations.

I have a couple of things to say to this.

Your first point "NOED Rewards Killers for failing" is not necessarily unbiased (or at least it doesn't sound unbiased) or necessarily true. I think you do not fail until survivors have escaped the trial. As long as they are within the trial you still have the chance to go from 1k to 3 or 4k even if the gates are open and even without NOED. Now we'd have to get into discussions about what exactly constitutes failing. In my view 0-1 k is a loss, 2k is a draw, 3-4 k is a win, pips determine the overall quality of the win or loss (how much you did, how much the other team messed up, how long the match went on for, etc). Even if you do not agree with my view on win/loss, saying that builds that acquire their full force during endgame necessarily constitute a failure on the killer's part, because all gens are on, seems weird to me.

I think a more accurate way of condensing point 1 an d 4 is NOED Rewards Killers for letting all generators be finished, and protecting dull totems.

I also think point 3 and its distinction with point 5 is not unbiased or accurate. NOED punishes survivors for doing generators (their main objective), while neglecting other objectives within a trial, such dull totems. Doing gens is distinct from genrushing, as genrushers usually have no regard for anything other than m1-ing at the nearest gens, falling prey to NOED and often times 3 genning themselves. Saving teammates from hooks is generally an exception, even genrushers know that they need their teammates to survive.

So more accurately, point 2, 3 and 5 could be condensed into: NOED Punishes Survivors as a team for focusing exclusively on their primary objective and neglecting dull totems.

As a survivor, it is frustrating to cleanse 4 dull totems and then be hit by NOED cuz my teammates couldn't cleanse even one. Especially when throughout the match I've been outplaying the killer. I will say this though. Devour Hope has earned a special place of hatred for me when I play survivor. Way more than NOED. Devour hope is more insidious and once it procs there's a chance that the team will die no matter what, especially if one of us gets moried. NOED only comes into play during endgame, which makes it way more predictable and thus counterable. Even so, I would not suggest changing Devour, as it is as strong as it should be, and rewards the killer for doing something.

My problem with NOED is the fact that the boost happens regardless of whether the killer stood in a corner all match or actually hooked survivors as usual. In fact, the most intense moments where NOED is at play is when the match is already difficult because of a high skill killer, and then NOED pops on top of that.

In my opinion NOED should keep its effect, but it should require the killer to do something during the match for it to activate. Could be something similar to BBQ, wherein you must hook every survivor for the thing to fully activate. It could even be that only survivors that have been hooked before are affected by the exposed effect, and the killer gets 1% extra movement speed per survivor hooked, so they only get the full 4% if they hooked every survivor in the match. This way it'll reward the killer for going after all survivors because it'll give them an extra boost during endgame, and it will not punish survivors that haven't been hooked all game for the blunders of their teammates.

That being said tho, NOED is almost the only thing that comes close to getting survivors to focus on the totem cleansing objective. Making NOED more dependent on the killer may make it even less likely that survivors will focus on this objective. Maybe the dull/hex totem mechanic should be reworked in general...

supersonic853

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1245153#Comment_1245153

Noed could also pop when your camping to death survivors and noed basically removes the counter to camping since youd have to spend time doing bones and by the time the last gen would pop he has a 2k and gets the 3rd with noed. Congrats he just got a easy 3k for what standing infront of survivors all game and didnt even really get punished since a 4k isnt that big of a thing? So dumb. Otz did this on a stream and got basically all 4ks but one where he got stream countered by a 4man swf.

animalmak

I play both sides, though I play survivor more, and I'm fine with the way NOED is. It's counterable by doing totems, and sometimes it doesn't even come into play because the killer sacrifices everyone before EGC. Just as main examples: when I play with friends, we count totems over comms and know if we got all of them to avoid NOED; when I play solo, most of the time people don't do anything, which means we all end up dying with like 2 gens done lmao.

I run it on my Doctor, but I think it's come into play maybe two or three times, and at most I've gotten one extra kill out of it. I don't necessarily think it rewards killers for failing because the killer still has to put themselves in the correct position, and secure hits and hooks for it to be worth it. I have had a game where NOED got me a hit, but it pushed the person out. No extra kill. Because I still played poorly.

Also, a lot of killers will specifically run endgame builds and combine NOED with Blood Warden, but I never see people commenting on how Blood Warden should be changed. NOED or not, the killer can still down someone after doors are opened and hook them, and then everyone else is stuck, making them more vulnerable. Unless I had a really terrible game and just want it over, it's not like I stop trying to do my killer objectives just because the doors are opened.

NekoTorvic

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1245171#Comment_1245171

Aye, which is why i say i don't like the fact NOED gives you a boost even if you pretty much did nothing, and its pretty much my only issue with NOED. After seeing Otz's stream on it I do see that there is this specific scenario where a combination of things such as camping, NOED, Haunting Grounds, etc that is broken af. But i'd be careful messing with each of them on their own, not to say i wouldn't. Its just not as simple as saying well, if you camp all survivors get +90% action speed boosts...mostly cuz people don't agree on what constitutes camping, and what is an objectionable form of camping and what isn't. But going into that would be derailing the thread, I think.