Enough with this communicating BS
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If you want to be dishonest with yourself that your problem, there is a reason the majority of the playerbase agree that SWF is the biggest game issues, and that include survivors.
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Honestly, the best thing I can say is: Comms isn't aura reading. If a team is calling out info that well, that's one of those teams that should probably be playing Rainbow Six instead of bullying people in DBD. For the most part, the little callouts that add up are things like 'oh, I have Deliverence, just stick to gens' or 'the killer is ghostface' or 'uh, guys, I maybe used shack pallet'. Generally speaking, SWF isn't aura reading. It's a bit stronger than aura reading, imo, just in an indirect way. You don't know exactly where everyone is or what they are doing, but you have a general idea AND can do shite like 'nah, leave me, I have DS/Unbreakable. Do gens instead.'
Aura reading, in the other hand, is straight-up situational wallhacks. Nothing will ever equal Kindred for what it does, nor will anything equal Bond for what it does. Comms just sort of does these jobs in a poor-mans way while giving you an assortment of other boosts.
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The only reason survivors agree is because the keeps changing to accommodate the dynamic between SWF and Killers while not doing anything to align SWF and Solo Teams. Since the game is already being tuned to SWF, this means solos would want to be brought up to the level of SWF, not the other way around. LoL so, yes... Both have thoughts on SWF, but not in the same way. Lol
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That is a blatant lie. Multiple devs have confirmed SWF was always intended. And I'm pretty sure it was added very shortly after release, meaning they had been working on it for some time.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
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I'm not being dishonest with myself in any way. You gave a terrible example of SWF communicating information and I pointed that out.
I have also pointed out I play solo and SWF with the exact same perks. I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer. I just play my games and don't obsess over who is in my lobby. I certainly don't go scouring the survivor friend list looking to see if they're SWF. Spend less time stressing and more time killing.
Killers always think they know when they have SWF but they actually don't. I've been accused of it so many times as a solo survivor. Just face facts if players are better than you, they will win, whether solo or SWF. You can't win every game and stop moaning when you don't win every game. Rushing to the forum to demonise people having and wanting to play with friends is not going to change anything. They're not going to punish people having friends to play with or stop people playing with their friends. So your constant worry/stress over it is pointless. Please try and remember you're just playing a game.
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''Aura reading, in the other hand, is straight-up situational wallhacks. Nothing will ever equal Kindred for what it does,''
are you stupid?
''hey, the killer is camping me''
There, you saved yourself using kindred,
''Hey, im the close and killer gone, I will go for the unhook''
I just negated the 2 reason you need kindred at all.
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That is only a tiny portion of what Kindred actually does. I don't think you know a lot about aura reading perks if you think that this very basic information is the power of Kindred. In a SWF, unless you have people calling out their exact locations (which is super rare) then you honestly have no idea where people are or what exactly they are doing. You don't know what direction the killer was travelling, you don't know how far away everyone is, you don't know who is in the most danger, you don't know how spread out you all are, you don't know where (if any) the traps around the hook are, you dont even know if the killer had BBQ. Why? Because people suck at calling this stuff out. Even the occasional Seal Team SWF wastes a shitload of time explaining, in exact detail, shite you could have just seen for yourself. And that's assuming that it's a full 4-peraon party, we haven't even gone into 3/2-person SWF.
Maybe don't call someone stupid just because you cannot act upon all the info a perk gives you.
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It's astounding how people still act as if comms haven't been in games forever. It hasn't been a problem for other multiplayer games, so I don't know why it suddenly is a huge deal.
Also, the people complaining about rank still don't grasp that rank isn't really indicative or anything except how often you play. The devs themselves say it, and they're the ones that design the dang system. If you believe otherwise, then you're probably just looking to place blame on something else.
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The only way for you to get better against SWF is to play against them. Strategies that work against solos might not work against squads and sometimes you might have to be the bigger annoyance/twat to get the kills because that is all that works. No shame in doing it either. As far as the matchmaking, yeah it definitely sucks. Just hang in there.
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''It's astounding how people still act as if comms haven't been in games forever. It hasn't been a problem for other multiplayer games, so I don't know why it suddenly is a huge deal.''
It a deal when one of the biggest survivor weakness designed by the dev were the lack of communication between them. All they have is 2 emote and crouching.
Kindred a fine example of that, It a perk that let you see the killer aura if he near somebody who hooked. the perk is usefull for people with no comunication since
- Let you know if killer camp
- let you know where the killer head if he don't camp
- let the whole them know what they are doing and where they are, that to let them know if someone else go for the save, or if someone else is chased for example.
See the issue with that? Anyone on coms can tell that right away whitout the perk. that save the team 1 perk slots.
OoO, let a single survivor Aura read the killer when they look at their direction, but the killer can see them if they also look in the survivor direction.
That a hudge3 advantage to know what the killer does and where he is at will, BUT he can also focus you and you have no way in game to tell that information to other player. that how the perk balanced.
in coms, your whole team got OoO if a single person has it. meaning you eliminate half the drawback of OoO and you can eliminate the other half by protecting the OoO user since your on coms and can coordinate.
Survivors lack to way to communicate cause the game designed this to be one of their weakness, solo will lack coordination and the game intended this way.
See this like that, You know the game ''Keep talking and nobody explode?'' it a coop game where one player take off a bomb will the other has a book and need to tell him how.
Both player lack information and the game is made to be like that. There would be no challenge if the one who has the book could directly see the bomb and then show the other player the book on what to do at the correct page.
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Playing as a killer in this game is the ultimate bully simulator if you're not very good at it and you're faced against SWF Red Ranks...I, myself, find easily in this category and it's a shame I payed for this game and all it's DLC's and I enjoy half of its content, cause the other half brings me so much pain and suffering I'd rather not play it at all.
I seriously hope Dev's pull their s**t together soon or another serious assymetrical game comes out on the market to abandon this lobby simulator disaster, but since then, I am stuck to enjoy half of the content this game has to offer(the survivor side). Friday the 13th was so much better, it's such a pity it was hit with licensing issues and other stuffs, cause it definitely had much more potential than this game!
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There no way to counter SWF. you need to Hope they be altruisitic or that they will try to bully you, if they want to play optimally, you wont counter them cause killer relly on survivor lack of communication and mistake, SWF remove lots of these mistake.
casual SWF are less of an issue, but they still call out information to each other, you wont be catching 2 survivor going for a save cause no one brought kindred, for example.
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Tell me again how any of that is different from being able to use comms in other games. Examples would be CSGO, Overwatch, League of Legends, DotA 2. All of these games are similar in that they allow comms (whether integrated or 3rd party), allow people to opt out of comms, and they all share the similarity of people not being grouped up on comms being weaker. Now why aren't these other developers banning comms in their games? It clearly provides a large advantage to anybody using it.
If you don't like people playing with comms, then honestly maybe the communication isn't the problem.
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More people doesn't fix ratio issues...
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lolwut
So right now, killer queue time takes long, because PC has a lot of killers which is good.
On Console, survivor queue times are hell.
If you mix both of those then?
Both sides benefit, PC killers will get instant queues and so will console survivors.
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I meant ratio issues of 95% of possible swf lobbies ceasing to exist.
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Oh, I mean they'll just have to wait longer I guess.
Solo queue is fairer for the killer. I'm solo queued all the time so I don't really care about SWF.
But I can see the issue with friends wanting to play with each other and still taking long.
I don't know about SWF, I don't really know what to say.
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There many differance between these game and this one, first one, the one your named are competitive. both team have the same tools and no information is hiden, you can just make them obivious for your teamate. Take League for exemple. Yes, you can tell that your ultimate is ready, that you have bought an item or that you did see someone in the fog of war, but that all information your teamate have acess too, you just let them know in case they did'nt check themself. The game show whenever your team ult are ready, you can check your ally items anytime and if your ally did see someone in the fog of war, you whole team know cause the said enemy did appear on your team mini map. Coms let you communicate faster and the other team have access to it too. In the games you named, the game are balanced around the fact that if your teamate know something, you know it too at the same time, you just did'nt pay notice.
Now take dbd, Dbd is not a competitive game. first, it a asemetrical game. Both team does not have the same objectif, both them don't have the same tool.
One tool survivor lack whitout exterioir mean or certain perks is communication and where or what the killer doing.
Let me show you differant scenarios to show how it impact the gameplay
let assume no one have coms for this first one and no one have kindred.
Senario 1:
Survivor A get put on hook
The survivor team get these informations.
-The location were Survivor A is hooked.
-The knowledge that the killer is no longuer in chase
Survivor B, C and D don't know if the killer is camping, they don't know if anyone else is going for the un hook and they don't know where other survivors are. Their only way to ever know is for each single of them to either go check themself or ignore to hooked survivor till someone else go for the rescues. they got no way to comminicate.
Meanwhile survivor A as knowledge of what going on around the Hook, but can't tell it to other survivor.
See this scenario show the first differance between competitive game and DbD. your put in a situation where members of the same team Can't have at any time the same knowledge of what going on. There is no way in this situation where Survivor B,C and D can know what happend in dirrect time in Survivor A screen.
Each Survivor has it own information about what happening in the game. there no HUD telling you exactly what happend.
For exemple let say survivor A get chased, the 3 other can't know if a chase is going on who is chased and where unless,
Survivor A get hit,there fore the HUD tell you he got hurt.
OR
The killer happend to be chasing Survivor A near you and you see them running.
Now let take scenario 2,
Survivor A got kindred
Survivor A get hooked. The whole team now know if the killer is near the hook and were each single of them are
Survivor A used on of his perk slot to give an advantage to his team, they now have knowledge they would'nt have acess too, the perk was usefull
Kindred perk is usefull only because Gain knowledge they could'nt have if they did'nt run the perk.
Senario 3
Survivors are on coms and don't have kindred
Survivor A get hook.
Survivors can communicate with eachother, therefore Survivor A can tell any thing that happend around the hook, Survivor B and C are relatively close to the hook, Survivor B tell them he close and go for the save, survivor C and D get the knowledge they can stay on their gens, someone going for the save for sure.
The team get around 3/4 of what kindred could have given them if they did'nt communicate, freeing a perk slot for the team.
As you see, communication just gave them best of borth world, survivor get acess to informations they weren't suposed to have whitout using a perk slot.
TLDR The game you gave as exemple are competitive game were each single member of the team share the same information poll no matter if they are on coms or not. In league if someone see the enemy jungler, it appear on your whole team minimap. the team can tell you if you weren't carefull about the minimap, but it don't change the fact that if they noticed, you too could cause the game gave you the information anyway.
In DBD this isin't the case, each single survivor got their own knowledge of what going on. the whole team don't get Aura reading on killer as long as 1 survivor see the killer. The game is balanced around the fact. The game is balanced around the fact Survivor A can know something Survivor B has no way to know, Coms let you ignore this and break the balance.
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Yeah except you're forgetting that if you've ever played a game of solo queue in League, it's not as simple as "ping this thing and everybody knows." People don't pay attention, people mute pings and chat, people straight up will see and ignore things, and there's constant miscommunication whether or not they have the information presented to them. It's still putting people at a disadvantage to those who choose to use comms, as you can get information out in two different forms, and a lot more quickly.
On top of that, you acknowledge in your own explanation that there are perks that give you the information that you essentially say is hidden to the survivors. Which, just like the other game, puts somebody at a disadvantage because they didn't use comms. That's my point. That's what I'm referring to when I ask what's so different about it. You said it's because the other games are "competitive" and I know what you mean by that, but I don't see what that has to do with comms giving people an advantage in communication. Either way, you don't need perks to have an idea of where the killer is. An observant survivor can track the killer's general location pretty well and stay out of the way. I personally feel like I do a pretty good job of this when I play survivor. You just have to do stuff like keep your eyes peeled for crows taking off in the distance and listen for the heartbeat (obviously.) You're not always going to know where the killer is, even if you are on comms. That's also another similarity between DbD and those games. All of them have some sort of "fog of war" or line of sight blockers. You're not supposed to have every little thing given to you, and when you choose to not run aura perks or use comms with a group or even one friend, you're kind of just shooting yourself in the foot.
My point is, all these games have it within the rules that you are allowed to use comms, and people act like that should be taken away in DbD when there's plenty of games that harm people that are solo and refuse to use comms or group up with people. That's just the nature of online games: it's usually easier when you have friends to work together with. It's been like that since the early days of online gaming, and it will probably continue to be that way until the day gaming ceases to be a thing.
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The game aint changed for SWF at all. otherwise BT and DS would'nt exist. BT and DS are perk made so solo can have an (in my opinion) unfair chance to get off hook if their teamate are potatoes (like an injured survivor doing a unsafe hook next to the killer.) The perk DS was created becasue 4 solo don't have the coordination to bodyblock in case the killer is tunelling in a normal situation ( and even then, we could argue tunelling is just the killer doing his objectif as fast as possible, like gen rushing..)
The issue with that is that SWF still have acess to these tools and can abuse them.
Also killer is far from having any tools made to face 4 coordinated survivors who have info sharing.
OoO Would'nt be a thing if game was balanced around SWF. there is no way the dev would have willingly gave survivor a permanent Aura reading tools to survivors who communicate. The killer strenght is that most of the time, 2 or 3 survivors don't have a clue where you are or what your doing.
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There's no real way to "close the gap" between solos and SWF, but ultimately it doesn't even matter.
The expectation of being able to play with and talk to other people without anything that even feels like restrictions, handicaps or disincentivization exists on a level that's quite simply above things like game genres and balance concerns. It's an established expectation for multiplayer video games that will to some extent quite simply going to override balance concerns if the design of the game in question doesn't really work with traditional attempts to balance it (like seperate queues, matching parties vs parties or just putting voice comms in the game to begin with).
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'' but ultimately it doesn't even matter.''
Yes it does, Killer don't want to play agains a team who can bypass on of their build in weakness without even trying, it not fun, it not fair. Would you think survivor like it if Huntress used a cross-air to improve aiming? Or would you find it fair if Nurse could use a outside program to know her blink range without using addon?
''like seperate queues,''
No killer would go in SWF queues unless they bring some Incredibly digusting top tier build on top 3 killer with a pink mori and their best addon. add to the fact it would take longer to find a game overall and some people would probably leave the game cause they can't go in normal queue as SWF and destroy noob killer.
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You missed the whole point, Ive seen huntress with better aim...
Joke aside, let me explain it this way then.
In league, your team all share the same info.
Yes for many reason people may not relay information correctly due to things you stated, but it don't matter the information was still here for the whole team.
Bot lane spot teemo in fog of war for 0,5 sec, the whole team see teemo on map for 0,5 sec. It don't matter if your team use that info or share it or whatever. the point is, if someone in team A gather any information, the game HuD and build in mechanic make sure all Member of team A get the info in some way or other. even if they don't care, even if they don't share it. The only thing coms do is let you share that info whitout the in-game build way.
In dbd it differant the game as made sure the survivor A don't have same info as Survivor B whitout them using perk slots. if survivor A see a totem for 0,5 sec the game don't tell anyone. survivor A know there a totem there, it up to him to clear it if he isin't chased, the game give no tools for the info the be share, it intended that way. survivor B C and D aren't suposed to know there a hex totem here unless they use a perk or that they found it themself.
Competitive game let you share info cause you had that info in the first place anyway, even if you did'nt see it or noticed or care about it. it was there for you to know. It dont matter if your on coms or not, the info here.
In dbd, the game don't let you use in game coms cause there is info that on survivor can know, but the 3 other can't, it not cause they did'nt see it, noticed it or cared about, it the fact the game did'nt show them, they don't know because they can't.
and then it matter in DBD because now the info you can't know is gived to you. and the game is balanced around the fact you should'nt have that info. The game designed in a way that yea, you can get some info with perk, but that a perk slot that won't be, let say, a second chance perk. it up to you to decide how much info perk you want or if you want any, but it force you into a choice, whitout coms, you wont have the best of all worlds.
In coms you don't have to make that choice, talking let you basicly get these info perk for free, and probably better on top of letting you save perk slot, and considering survivor already have 12 more perk slot than the killer, it a hudge advanatage you get here.
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I don't really care if a huntress uses a crosshair as worrying about it is sort of a waste of time to begin with. There's monitors with completely undetectable built-in firmware crosshair overlays, so all one can really do is shrug and accept that it might happen because it's unfeasible to prevent people from doing it in the first place.
I don't really see a way a Nurse could get that effect without using some form of "traditional" cheat program, something that unlike VOIP apps is not explicitly allowed by the developers and EAC. So no, that wouldn't be okay and is part of what anticheat should aim to prevent.
And... that's part of what I meant? I said that the usual ways games try to balance parties vs solos wouldn't work in DBD due to its genre and design. You can't really do team vs team because it's 1v4, you can't really do seperate queues and it doesn't seem like the devs are too keen on implementing in-game voice chat.
What I mean by "it doesn't matter" is that anything that's more "punishing" than bloodpoint/xp modifiers, maaaaybe SWF indicators and changes to base balance (the "buff solos and killers" approach, where the overall "powerlevel" of the entire game is raised and then balance is done around that) just seems very unrealistic. And that sort of thing doesn't seem good enough to plenty of people, who insist on handicaps applied to parties instead. Something that goes against that established expectation of being able to play with other people in multiplayer games without restrictions or disincentivization once the match starts, and therefore has an extremely low chance of even being seriously considered by any sane developer.
Is it a perfect solution? No, because no perfect solutions exist here.
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Honestly who cares. Idk why killers are so focused on who's swf anyways just play the game. If I get ran by players on comms cool. I still get 2 or 3k because of my skill.
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Yea, i have no idea whats wrong with matchmaking rn.
I just played a game of killer, and I'm a rank 16. The survivor's team consisted of three rank 15's and one rank 1. While this isn't as extreme as your case, it still doesn't make sense to me. Are there not enough rank one lobbies?
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Maybe people don't like to get rolf stomped by people who basicly got unfair advantage. it dosen't help that the matchmaking is so broken you face them at every rank. Think whatever you want, it don't feel good for people learning the game as killer to get abused by people who got maybe 4 time your playtime. the differance between killer and survivor is that the killer is alone. if your a rank 15 survivor and get matched agains a rank 1 killer, you still can have so fun cause you can end up being match with 3 other people who are red rank and who can carry you, yes your team will perform under there intended strenght, but it wont be a 1 way steamroll.
I can tell many new killer ditch out the game fast cause they get basicly no way to learn the loop, you will face people who know how to leave no room for your mistake and they wont be gentle.
People want to know if they face a SWF cause it aint fun to face them in most case, and only experianced killer can take them on, Player who still are learning the basic of the game wont have fun agains them at all and won'T learn anything.
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I agree with you. I couldn't care less who is in my lobby. If they are solo I will play to kill them, if they are SWF I will play to kill them. I play solo survivor and I play SWF. I keep my perk loadout the same irrelevant of whether I am alone or not.
I die more in a 4 man SWF than I do in solo or 2 man. Not every 4 man team is filled with top skilled players.
There is always this idea that if someone body blocks the killer they are SWF. Wrong.
If someone has prove thyself it must be SWF. Wrong.
If they co-op a gen they must be SWF. Wrong.
Made up excuses by the majority of people to justify why they lost. If you lost, you lost, go to your next game. Don't sit there crying how they must have friends because you wouldn't have lost any other way. You lost.
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No, I didn't miss the point. I just disagree that the information is just given to you in League but not in DbD.
In DbD plenty of information is given, as I stated in my previous comment. I won't repeat it, you can go read what I said about watching for crows and whatnot. The fact is, there's still going to be certain things that somebody doesn't know because they aren't paying attention and comms helps with that if you bother to group and use it. Even then, there's always going to be information you aren't given. In League, it would be mostly because of the Fog of War, since it hides peoples' items they purchased until you see them again and all that stuff. In DbD, it would come from the killer not being around survivors. You can bring up OoO but as far as I'm concerned, if you're that worried about it you should be playing a stealtyh killer at that point, or just tunnel the heck out of the OoO so the team doesn't get any more information off them. On top of that, there's just things that you can do to exploit SWFs, such as the fact that they're overly altruistic for each other.
As a killer, you can't expect them to outright ban all comms, because as I said comms have been around forever in gaming and it's always given an advantage. It's just another one of those things you have to work around, like one of those annoying "second chance" perks killers hate so much. It's completely allowed, even if you think it's cheap. If you feel like it's just too ridiculously unfair, then feel free to offer up tweaks to the system. But the answer isn't just "ban comms because it makes the game too hard for me." That sounds as ridiculous to me as the people that are whining "remove NoED because I keep getting hit by it." As survivor, you can't really be mad about being at a disadvantage either because you're choosing not to group up. It's just the reality of things: comms are pretty much always available and developers don't seem to have a problem with it, likely because anybody can join in if they'd like. All of those problems that you mention about Survivor A seeing a totem for .5 seconds and Survivor B not knowing or whatever, the only thing I have to say to those is "if you have a problem with not having comms, then it's just a click of a button away from joining."
Also, just because a game is "competitive" doesn't automatically mean "information is automatically there for the whole team." Not that all competitive games aren't like that, but just because something is "competitive" doesn't mean they are like that. So I still don't see what your whole point is about the other games being "competitive." That doesn't change the fact that there's always information you're not going to know in both games, and that if you are on comms, the information you do know will be relayed much more quickly.
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Some people on here would say that's a balanced game purely because they don't want to see SWF nerf come.
I will say, it's not balanced and that was an unfair match. I feel sorry for that game.
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Even with a 2 man swf group they can still be over powering and easily win a game.
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''No, I didn't miss the point. I just disagree that the information is just given to you in League but not in DbD.''
Who care if you disagree, it just a fact, the game litteraly designed that way. there litteraly in game perk that are here for that.
Kindred exist for the simple fact that there no other way to communicate where each other are and if the killer is hiding near hook whitout coms. if it would be ''informaiton everyone had'' the perk would'nt exist cause survivor would have it in their basekit.
OoO is balanced around the fact only the survivor running it have the information and can't share that information. It litteraly the best tools on coms. there a reason tryhard SWF on coms abuse this perk and this is a know issue. if the information was like you think it was 4 randoms monkey could abuse it as well without coms...but they virtually can't cause there no in game way to say ''Yo the killer is hag and she putting trap on the other side of the map'' Only you will know. You don't have the tool to share this information and it only visible to you.
''Also, just because a game is "competitive" doesn't automatically mean "information is automatically there for the whole team''
I aggree, it just that the g ame you named were all similar competittive team vs team game so I had no better naming for them.
''As a killer, you can't expect them to outright ban all comms, because as I said comms have been around forever in gaming and it's always given an advantage.''
Except this is an assemitrical game. both team don't have the same tool. it not like League.
Yes, In league, being on coms is better, it balanced by the fact the other side can also be coms.
This can't be done in DbD. Information is a hudge point in the game and survivor aren't suposed to share it so easily. Killer can't go on coms, they have no similar tools to help them.
Can a Killer beat coordinated SWF? yes, are they fun to face? Not at all. Look at any killer main stream or video, the thing they all dislike to face are coordinated SWF. they aint fun to face, you only get the feeling you make trice as much effort as they do to win and they still are a challenge for you. And at the end when you win, It don't feel fun. You know they had to put way less time and skill than you and the game was still close to be won by them.
It the reason people rarely play nurse, Yes she can totally deny survivor of any thing they can do, put putting 5000+ hours on her only just to do that don't feel that rewarding when you still can do 4k ez with any killer with 250+ hours only
You can't remove SWF cause it not fun for survivors, but killer can't have fun and are forced to face SWF
the problem with that is that survivor get to have fun but not killer.
All im saying is that there a reason survivor have 10 min queu time...
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I only thing SWF can become a real problem when there 3 of them in tearm of overpowering, sure 2 people sharing info they should'nt have is an issue, but having only half the team knowing what they do mean the other half will have 0 idea what they doing and that just create bad play,
And 2 survivor by themself wont be enought to stop the killer if the other 2 who wont coordinate die.
With 3 people you can start stomping killer too. you can survive the fact the fourth survivor is a potatoes.
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-Yes, it's designed in such a way that there's perks for people to gain information that they wouldn't otherwise have if they used comms. Which they can easily use. Once again, they can get on some comms if they want at any time, so I still don't understand your point there. People on comms have an advantage, simple as that.
-You're right, it's an asymmetrical game, which means that you, as a killer, ideally have the power of the other 4, and can control the game yourself. How you do that is on you. Sure, you can't have an advantage of being on comms, but when you're somebody who can just remove a player from the game, I don't think it's a huge deal.
-Killers can still have fun against SWF players. You can personally feel that they're unfun but that doesn't mean inherently that somebody can't have fun against a SWF.
I don't want to directly compare League and DbD directly because it's like apples and oranges, but my point bringing those up is that it's been allowed in several different games throughout history and it's never been a problem. Just because people are on comms doesn't mean it's impossible to beat them, it just means that you have to work harder. If you don't think that's fun, then maybe you don't belong playing with all the people that try their hardest to win. Not saying that as an insult -- it's okay to be a more casual player. I just don't think just because you don't think it's fun, that means it's not fun.
Also, if you're putting in 5k hours just to learn Nurse then you probably just aren't that good at her. She's not that difficult to pick up.
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The point
You
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Then tell me what it is then. As far as I can tell, the thread is about whether it's fun or not to go against SWF. You're trying to go into comparing DbD to other games and how information is gathered in those games, but that's all irrelevant.
Once again, I don't think I'm missing the point. You're just making nonarguments. Sorry. Make a cohesive statement with a clear point instead of just a big wall of text that essentially boils down to "SWF is unfun."
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I'd argue the swf was not the problem here, but the matchmaking.
You could have brought an ebony noed spirit and lost against a group that much higher than your skill rank.
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I actually wouldn't mind that happening to me more often, if the endgame chat wasn't always, "LOL GOTEM NOOB TRASH KILLER LOLOLOL" afterwards.
Playing against better players is fine, playing against people who are just there to boost their self-esteem by steamrolling low rank players is crap.
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