Putting this NOED totem discussion to rest
4 x survivors.
5 x gens 80 seconds per gen = 4:00 minutes based off 1 x survivor
chances are you come across these totems they’re just not a priority in survivors heads. Yet survivors state they take too long to cleanse..... 5 x totems 14 seconds perk totem = 70 seconds for 5 totems. You can’t say you don’t have time to do totems.....
Hypthecially say the killer only got 2 hooks all game, he got a third during EGC and Devour Hope procs It’s the exact same thing as NOED (besides the speed boost). Only DH will likely be cleansed early game because of the “Oooo shiny!” Mentality.
On the opposite end if the killer is constantly hooking, engaged in chases etc. Then the killer is simply better than your team. If he has NOED so be it. Blaming a 3 perk killer for 1 perk that’s activated in the final 2 minutes of gameplay, instead of acknowledging survivors ignorance.....
I’m not saying you’ll find all five totems every single game, but if all survivors change their mentality they’ll all be cleansed more often than not.
A simple all rounded survivor acknowledgment of totems are priorities would make NOED obsolete and killers would stop running it.
But go ahead, make a valid argument on how it’s not ignorance I’ll wait.....
Comments
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I thought you were trying to stop the NOED discussions lol. You're opening a can of worms my friend.
I agree with you, but 90% of people on the forums aren't willing to have their minds changed. So it's a rinse and repeat ideology.
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You just pointed out how doing totems makes survivors lose out on at least 17.5% of their objective in time and you want to use that as an argument FOR survivors doing bones? K.
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Lmao, let the show begin.
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And during that times survivors would’ve come across at least one totem the old “Oh a lit totem! I’ll come back to that later”...... Mmmmhmmmm
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Don’t do bones IDC, just don’t complain about it when it bites you via DH or NOED. That’s all I’m saying
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Agree
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Well I actually agree here. OP says that NOED is in the survivors' hands and they have no right to complain if they don't try to counter it. This all makes complete sense to me.
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Well the only issue I have with NOED is that it's cheap and comes out of nowhere, and survivors have no idea it's coming, or if all the totems have even been cleansed. All we need for killers and survivors is a totem counter and that would be a good enough change for almost everyone.
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Of course as a killer, you could just master your craft and not rely on No Ones Even Dead yet crutch
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A totem counter removes the uncertainty from Hex perks, if you include a counter for survivors, then Killers should be able to see when DS and BT are active on a Survivor. So no, it wouldn't be good for everyone, it would just be a buff to Survivors and a nerf to Killers who uses Hex perks.
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This is one of the worst "arguments" ive ever read. Even your conclusion on numbers are wrong.
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Swf removes the uncertainty from Hex perks. Why not solos too? It could be compensated with a neat buff like allowing killers to select hex positions and maybe even a small increase to the base totem cleansing time. And as always the devs are working on improving totem spawns.
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I mean survs themselves decide whether they'll take the chance of noed coming into play or not by cleansing totems. Although,cleansing totems is more than 70 secs if u consider finding totems and traversing the map :3
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As a solo survivor myself, I can honestly say cleansing totems is difficult because of the lack of communication between teammates.
For example: say if someone's hooked and they haven't got kindred, I can't tell if I'm with a 3man or 2man swf and the other teammate is a solo, so it's hard for me to know if the teammate is going for the save and I can do the totem, or I go and run for the save but they end up getting off themselves or by another teammate, which essentially just waists my time to counter NOED as a solo survivor (not to be self-absorbed or anything).
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idk why this guy hates solos so much. Good point that a totem counter literally doesn't hurt hex perks at all.
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Errrr you have totem counters.... Detective Hunch, Small Game, Maps.....
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Ah the old “I don’t like how you play so you should change it” argument....
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This isn't taking into account the time it takes to search for totems, the difficulty of spotting dull totems in many totem spawns, or the fact that most players are solo que and cannot communicate to their team how many totems they have done.
If there was a giant totem.in the middle of the map that took 70 seconds to cleanse, you might have a point.
Just so you are aware, an average search time for a totem is about 40 seconds. Assuming you only stumble upon 2 totems (including time to get there and cleanse, we'll call that 35 seconds). It then takes you another 3(40+14) = 162 seconds. Manageable for a good swf team, perhaps.
But what happens if you aren't a good swf team? What happens if you simply do not spot the totem your teammate destroyed? How much time will yiu waste before giving up? What happens if you waste all this time (and I'm giving you some really small numbers here) and you don't get to the last gen because the killer isn't even running NOED? What happens if you simply cannot find the 5th totem? How much time did you waste then? What happens if cleansing all totems immediately became meta? How much time would people waste searching for totems that don't even exist? How many games would have every dull cleansed in 2 minutes but have every survivor sacrificed because they were trying to find totems that had already been cleansed instead of doing their objective?
The 'counterplay' is stronger than the perk itself, which in itself is only a problem because it's an unearned second chance perk. You can literally get it by AFKing. That's not fair.
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Whoops wrong quote
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Your not really finishing the argument. You've just opened another noed discussion. Do remember a few more things:
- The time it takes to find totems.
- If your playing solo you have no idea how many have been cleansed.
- Indoor maps
- Thrill Of The Hunt
Definitely haven't heard people say totems take too long to cleanse. I'm just saying it isn't as simple as just cleanse all the totems.
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...A literal totem counter, like we have a counter for gens....
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I completely agree with this, and actually, I'm curious to know what the small influx of NoED complaints is about?
But NoED is, like all other hex perks, a risk for the killer to wind up with only 3. Specifically NoED, which has no use til all gens are done, so if it's removed before then, the killer is spending the ENTIRE match without that fourth perk - Other hexes at least are in action from the get go.
Not doing totems is a choice. If you actively choose not to do them and get hit with NoED, don't complain. You were aware of the risk. There are SO many counters to this, too. You've got perks like Small Game and Detectives Hunch to let you see totems. Don't wanna use a perk slot? Bring a map, you can see them with maps too. Totem spawns aren't COMPLETELY random, there's a number of spots each map for them to spawn and even then, theres a pattern you can follow that leads you to the rest once you find just one totem - I use that pattern often myself.
NoED doesn't really come out of nowhere? It would at no point be fair to the killer if NoED, a perk that doesn't even activate until the end of the game, glow like it was the entire game? A totem glows when it's active. NoED is already a risky perk for both survivor and killer as it is, and people will keep bringing it as long as it keeps working. And why does it keep working? Because people would rather come to the forums or respective communities and complain about how it's an unfair perk instead of trying to counter it in game by doing totems.
Sorry for the wall ://
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The game is balanced around Solo Survivors, not SWF. Every Survivor asking the Devs to close the gap between Solo and SWF are basically asking for the game to be made easier.
A built in totem counter is a nerf to all Hex perks except Haunted Grounds. Survivors are not supposed to be certain that they have cleansed all totems, they're supposed to be kept on their toes throughout the match. Again, it is the same in regards to Killers, they are not supposed to know if the Survivor has DS or BT active. You wouldn't be okay with the Developers making Survivors glow a bright pink when those perks are active, because it takes away the uncertainty, just as a totem counter would take away the uncertainty from totems. So yes, a totem counter does a lot, as you said in your last paragraph, it is a buff for Survivors, one that they don't deserve since Hex perks all have counters. You just don't want to give up a slot to counter a killers slot.
If you want a totem counter, it shouldn't be baseline, it should be an independent perk. Give up a perk to counter a perk.
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They don't want to give up a perk slot to counter a Killers perk, they want it built in so they can make the game easier for themselves. Rather than get good at the game, they ask for it to be made easier.
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Thanks for the mature in depth response 👌🏻
I kept it at a base level as too many variables come into it. Survivors spawning next to a gen, are survivors running small game, detectives hunch, is it a ######### map. Etc etc
the counter argument would be ‘I don’t wanna have a wasted perk’ yet people are happy to run DS & BT against people who tunnel 🤷🏻♂️.
I’ve been playing survivor a lot more and the amount of survivors I’ve personally seen run straight past a totem and not even bother is mind boogling. 3 people on a gen, and I’m the one who cleanses the totem. The other two ran off. And then have the audacity to complain about NOED.
I’m not saying survivors should run around the map and make sure you can find five broken totems because that’s impossible.
what I am saying is if survivors lose their ignorance towards totems, you’ll probably find NOED procs a lot less
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This is addressed in the response I gave to MadLordJack
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What’s your definition of a counter? They’re pretty strong counters imo
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It’s not a secondary objective, because if the killer doesn’t have NOED it’s literally bones doing nothing.....
I’m not saying survivors should run around the map and make sure they find 5 broken totems, all I’m saying is if survivors lose their ignorance towards totems. And actually break them instead of running past them. (We’ve all seen this happen)
a lot less complaints would exist towards NOED because killers would stop running the perk
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Okay, doing your mathematics here, it takes a single survivor 5 minutes and 10 seconds to complete their objective without fear of NOED activating.
You forgot about travel time, pressure made by killers, and solo queue penalty. All these factors add approximately...
Another 5 minutes to completing their objective. Let's pretend survivors are being as efficient as possible and did generators by themselves: That removes 2 minutes and 40 seconds.
Now, let's add everything together: Assuming best case scenario, survivors can complete generators and totems within 7 minutes and 40 seconds. Since there's no knowing the killer has NOED, the survivors always have to assume the killer is using NOED.
Therefore, you can 4 perks while survivors have to assume you have NOED. 😄
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If survivors lose their ignorance toward totems, NOED won't even need to get activated. That's the biggest problem with NOED: it's not activated by the killers prowess, but by the team's "negligence". Except that it's not exactly negligent to do your objective in solo que, because your team always has that 1 person not really being productive. Except now it has 2 because you also have that other person looking for "dull totem" number 6.
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Explain to me how I am biased and counter my points without name calling.
The Devs do not balance around SWF, they balance around Solo. The mechanics a player has as Solo is plenty, there is no need for buffs or nerfs. What is needed is a better ranking and matchmaking system. The number one issue that Solo has is competent and experienced players are being matched up with potato bushes.
Many solo players don't want to play SWF and thats fine, it's their choice, but they shouldn't ask for buffs when they have available avenues already implemented in the game that they could pursue.
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My definition of a counter is something on the UI that goes from 5 to 1...as in, actually counting the amount of totems left.
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Add a built in totem counter and that would solve 99% of noeds issues
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Oh I didn't knew that you can teleport from gen to gen and totem to totem to start working on them. Phew for a second I thought survivors had to run around the map with normal speed and find them while there is a killer who tries his best to keep them away of that and kill them. Damn son, you enlightened the community.
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It's ONLY a buff for solo survivors. Swf is already knowing all informations.
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A buff that isn't needed. Why does solo deserve a buff? They already have Detectives Hunch, Small Game and Maps. If they want a counter as well, then it should be a perk.
Why do Solo Survivors deserve this buff, and yet Killers shouldn't get a similar buff that would let them know if DS or BT is active on a survivor?
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You forget you can spawn next to totems, so chances are you’re instantly left with 4 totems if the survivor cleanses it, now throughout the unhooks, chases, heals etc etc chances are 4 survivors will at some point stumble across a totem. Survivors have no issue going back if it’s a lit totem. It’s the dulls that they’re “meh”
I just had a game on one of the corn maps, 1 survivor did two totems, I found another two on my travels while running to the next generator. The 5th was found later on because it was NOED 😂
That was as a solo survivor. I don’t get the huge deal . It’s like people get tunnel vision and gens are all that people see
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Ah gotcha
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You can never be sure all totems are destroyed until you seen all 5 totems destroyed. Finding all totems, destroyed or not, takes forever and in solo queue where communication is nonexistent... All survivors must check totems which can easily win killers games due to the amount of time they wasted to confirm totems. 😄
Therefore, my stance on NOED, it's unhealthy for the game because it furthers the gap between solos and SWF.
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You don’t need to check if 5 totems are destroyed that’s just silly.
Simply put if survivors checked that jungle gym they just passed, or rock formation, killer shack etc on the way to the next gen totems would be non existent in games.
it’s the survivors ignorance of “I’m not in SWF so I’m not doing it” that’s allowing NOED to be up at EGC
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If you don't then you won't know if 5 totems are destroyed, which means you risk giving the killer a strong endgame.
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Double post? If not, this isn't a good rebuttal. 😕
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Even I don’t check if 5 totems are destroyed 😂I find them on my travels and that’s it.
I would recommend going around and checking for 5 broken totems. Treat this thread as enlightening, not one of ‘bro make sure you see 5 broken totems before you leave’
If everyone cleanses totems they spot in their travels 5 totems will be non existent for EGC
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In a perfect world, this would be a great counter to NOED, but you can't rely on your teammates pulling their weight unless they are in a SWF with you.
Therefore, you must check all 5 totems to confirm NOED is deactivated. 😕
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Why does everypne think SWF instantly knows everything? They dont magically get info. One of them has to get it first to SHARE it. Thats the advantage.
UI additions will not reduce the swf-solo gap.
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Noed is perfect counter to over-altruistic self-confident team trying to save teammate even if the know that it is noed. If you are such self confident and greedy - you can try (and probably die together with caught mate). What's the problem? Just save teammate before last gen. If you are bad running away after last gen - its your fault. If mate is unlucky to get caught after last gen - its a fair game moment. If you are not so clever to understand that killer will camp hanging surv cuz it is a legit easy frag - it's your fault. Probably camping hanging one (with or w/o noed) is just an easy escape for rest and the last chance for killer to get at least one kill. Damn pathetic entitled survs, lol.
I play both sides on red ranks, btw. And i don't use it because it is a waste of perk slot for me. I usually get 2-4 kills before last gen and find that egc-altruism boring and stupid. If you like this type of gameplay fighting for each mate after egc - just take small game, map, or detectives hunch and do it. Ez.
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I'd say I don't see too much ignorance towards totems when I'm playing survivor. I usually run Inner Strength so I know the feeling about looking for totems, and finding out the randoms have already cleansed them. I think they need to add two things to help indirectly nerf noed.
1. Totem Counter
2. Perk relating to cleansing totems
I think if they added a totem counter then it would be perfect. It would tell survivors the risk they are running after completing the last generator.
I had an idea for a hex perk that would force survivors to cleanse all 5 totems at the beginning of the game.
This perk would indirectly nerf noed. It would make killers choose would they rather have early game slowdown or late game pressure. Since this perk trumps other hex totems it means the perk cannot be run with ruin, thrill or noed.
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I'd say I don't see too much ignorance towards totems when I'm playing survivor. I usually run Inner Strength so I know the feeling about looking for totems, and finding out the randoms have already cleansed them. I think they need to add two things to help indirectly nerf noed.
1. Totem Counter
2. Perk relating to cleansing totems
I think if they added a totem counter then it would be perfect. It would tell survivors the risk they are running after completing the last generator.
I had an idea for a hex perk that would force survivors to cleanse all 5 totems at the beginning of the game.
This perk would indirectly nerf noed. It would make killers choose would they rather have early game slowdown or late game pressure. Since this perk trumps other hex totems it means the perk cannot be run with ruin, thrill or noed.
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I run inner strength too, such a under rated perk. I can agree on a totem counter, wouldn’t hurt. It’s be a lot like the gen counter
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