Why NOED needs to stay in it's current state
Now before the OoO flashlight jockeys call me a baby killer holding my crutch perk. Hear me out.
Its clear that a large percentage of the killer base uses NOED. Some need NOED to secure a single killer. Too many killers rely on it and cant play without it. The reason why Noed needs to stay in the state that it's in is it would kill off too many killers. Many killers needed ruin to put any sort of gen pressure on, or to combo it with other slowdown perks. It is very clear that after the ruin nerf the game lost alot of killers (on ps4 atleast). Considering alot more killers rely on noed then ruin, doing any sort of rework or nerf to noed would kill off too many killers making survivor que times too long and putting the game on its deathbed. If you want to counter noed, just do the bones. It's in your choice of the killer getting noed. Even if it makes your games slightly harder, just do the bones.
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If you NEED noed to get a kill then maybe your just a bad killer
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I don't complain about NOED, but people already weren't playing killer before the Ruin "nerf". Funny thing is I see people complaining about gen tapping when they now have a perk to counter just that. Funny world isn't it? That said telling people to do all 5 totems before the end sounds like "I want you to stop doing gens". It's probably much easier to just do gens and then when the exit gates are powered look for the totem while 99ing the gates, unless you have Detective's Hunch or there's a totem nearby. That's how I play around Ruin generally. Killer only will likely get one down from NOED in that time. That said if someone opens the gates I'll look around for a little while nearby a gate and if I don't find it I'm out.
Btw you can't run OoO in the game anymore. People literally resort to AFKing or farming in my games any time I run it to try and practice getting better at chases. Honestly maybe I should run it more to just farm BPs, but that's boring.
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This perk is a complete design failure. Its unhealthy for all players. Killer players need to gitgud. Thats how it is. Its pathetic how most killers play this game. Theyre on the same Level like those baby survs in redranks that cant do anything helpful.
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I think with a few tweaks the perk would be fair and fun to go against, maybe even gasp healthy for the game.
If they added another incentive to cleansing totems and notification if all totems were cleansed noed would be sitting pretty good.
Maybe an incentive like (global -8% gen speed at start of game, +2% global gen speed per totem cleansed)
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Did you even read the post? I'm not saying we need noed for kills. I'm saying some killers are so bad that if noed got taken away they would most likely leave the game. There's already a shortage of killers right now from the ruin nerf. Completely missed the point of the post
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I also believe NOED should stay in its state.
I believe it's in the middle between healthy and an unhealthy perk.
When a killer starts to learn and adapt, thus becoming a better killer and gaining his/her kills before the end game then he/she will chose a perk to replace it.
OR, the killer will forever rely on it, make it to end game and never learn a thing.
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I agree. There's many other endgame perks that work better then noed. Freddy is a perfect example. Blood warden and remember me are wayyyyy better for endgame. The only thing noed actually counters in endgame is adrenaline
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Eh, I think NoED actually makes fewer killers in the long run. People come to rely on things like NoED and Tunneling, that when they face SWF and it doesn't work they view the game as imbalanced and quit. Both rob people of a bit of practice, and make them think they're better than they actually are. They also rank up faster than they should, which ends up with a feeling of hopelessness at higher ranks.
Not to say I think NOED should actually be removed, mind you. I just don't think it's as helpful at what you want it to do as you think.
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I would go even further... and make noed basekit with a totemcounter. It fits the EGC, its a thrilling time as survivor (atleast for me, noed/exposed is the only really exciting time) and it would get rid of the perk noed, which i've never liked. Not knowing wether there is noed, wether you waste time doing dull totems and how many totems are left. It just aint worth doing bones. But i like the phase no one escapes death. Iconic and i wouldn't mind if it became part of the basegame.
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I used to think this. Then I realized this would have one very bad side effect for killers: It'd make hex perks absolutely worthless. Totems would be a secondary objective, and therefore more likely for Hex Totems to be cleansed early. Especially sneaky ones like Devour Hope (which I'd take over NoED every day of the week.
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Naw it's the killer design that failed. The perk is very balanced given the conditions at play. What would be the point in ranking systems if this perk didn't exist?
Nobody would play killers that don't have instant downs, so id say it's pretty helpful to have the capacity to instadown during EGC for those killers, because those killers don't have the design elements necessary that eliminate a need for noed in the first place.
Noed is balanced. Killers are not. There needs to be a balance sweep through every ability and perk, for both killer and survivor.
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I'm 50/50 on NOED. Yes, it does reward bad killers for almost losing, but also it creates fear and tension during the end-game. You don't know whether they have it or not. Removing it would make the end-game as a whole weaker; which is already a bad spot to be in. Some maps like Lery's or Hawkins also make it tough to find certain totems. Which is a good thing for other hex perks but for something like NOED its a little too much. Without the speed bonus I'd be fine with it because then you can actually play around it instead of being dead no matter what. Training wheels aren't bad. Many killers who use it are usually rank 20 or so, but when you never grow out of your training wheels then it stops being cute and just annoying. Most good killers don't use NOED unless they don't have any better perks on the killer or if they're using a specific build. The perk does also make it harder to pressure during the match as well because you pretty much don't have a perk until the end-game. If the speed bonus was gone I would say that its balanced. But until then we just have to deal with it. Plus there might be some backlash if it does get nerfed too hard. Not that it will really be missed...
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That's always been my thought process. While there is nothing wrong with the perk itself. I notice only killers who are bad or struggle with the game need it. I've noticed a lot of killers defend it from some of the best to the worst killers, but most of the good killers may defend it yet I never see them run it.
It wouldn't be a one sided BS perk if they removed the speed boost honestly.
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NOED is fine in the game. It's easy to counter. If people choose not to, that's on them.
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Hm... thats a fair point. They would get eaten up while survivors are looking for dulls to cleanse noed. On the other hand, if they're looking for totems and ignoring gens, you're benefitting as killer (general speaking). If they do gens (a la genrush) then they dont have more time to find hex totems than they would have now. They still have to choose how they spend their time. Gens or totems. I'd be fine with that tradeoff, if doing totems was really valuable enough to compete with genrushing.
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Even when I enjoy to sometimes use NOED in endgame build and it's fun, I still think that it's design is unhealthy at least in it's current form. Too much room for abuse of this perk for uninteractive playstyles and general poor implementation of counterplay that has insane amount of flaws when faceing solos.
Best would be to give it full rework into some new amazing effect that would still make it worth the name No one escapes death with less frustraing aspects. Other option would be to add more info to solo players on the state of totems so that the current couterplay is at least plausible insted of complete RNG hope your team didn't miss 1 super secret totem spot or that it doesn't spawn near hooked person/gates or that you find it under 2 min or your teammate dies etc. It has many other issues but I don't feel like dissecting them all here.
I hope for new mid-chapter having large amount of perk reworks and NOED beiing one of them, paired with other perks with potentially annoying design.
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NOED just needs to lose the speed boost. Keep the insta-down, lose the speed increase.
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I agree. If the rework were to be an equal good to both sides then that would do some good for the game. Maybe another endgame update would be good for both sides. Relying on noed and adrenaline for the endgame on both sides gets tiresome
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I have almost no issues with NOED or its place in the game. NOED makes me mad at my teammates, not the Killer, because I always cleanse at least 3 totems. More power to ya. 🍻
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I'm a Rank 1 killer.
I USED to use Noed back when I first reached Rank 1 with Pig. It helped me as a killer because the more I used it, the more I honed in my skills the less I needed it. I learned throughout the years and completely dropped it. I don't consider myself a "Good" killer, but it's a good building block to shape future "Good" killers.
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I usually do the same unless we're up against a top tier player who is really good at pressuring gens. I aim for 2-3 totems each match and if NoEd pops in endgame, I am out the door. The rest of the lazy bums can die. I will go search for NoEd or go for the save if whoever is hooked looped the Killer really well. I am always willing to die for a good teammate.
Unless I see them trying to be toxic, then they can bleed out on the hook.
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Let's pretend for a moment rank actually means anything. Well I guess killer rank is significantly more difficult to obtain over any rank of survivor. That seriously does need to be addressed one day.
So your saying a semi permanent PWYF at tier 2 with a Devour Hope with 3 stacks will actually teach you anything? I find that incredibly hard to believe. If anything relying on that actually is worse because it does not teach you anything, but it does give some hope of a false superiority complex with X Killer beating X Survivors. It requires no skill to be 4% faster with a exposed status for a cheap hit. Worse part is usually the innocent person is the victim. The person who wasn't seen all game or possibly the David who looped you for 5 gens.
This is in fact a hindering effect on new players by giving them a quick bandaid solution to bad gameplay and poor management skills of there own lack of experience on both sides. To me NoeD is the equivalent of watching a Survivor in the corner of the map Self Care while you are on hook.
Is it doing something? Yes
Is it Productive? Not Really, but Sometimes it is.
Is it Helping? No
Running NoeD will actually imho make you a worse killer.
I think the perk would be balanced just by removing the Movement Speed Buff. People want it completely changed or removed, but I do think with the movement speed buff removed a lot of the issues surrounding NoeD will be gone.
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The same can be said of survivors' second chance perks, and they have a lot more of them.
If you don't like NOED, you can break the totems. It's not complicated. The perk is one of the few whose activation can be prevented outright, and the payoff to having it activate must be proportional to that risk.
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I didn't mention that because that excuse has been used in every single argument ever. That's like telling killers to pressure gens better instead of actually doing anything productive to help them with it.
Do Bones, Pressure Gens, Matchmaking is working as intended it's just broken wait for the MMR system, etc. There's so many arguments over stupid things to protect your debate or argument without ever wondering what is actually wrong that enough people want it changed.
Yet in your infinite wisdom decide to point out that survivors have plenty of second chance perks, but they should do bones when neither of those were brought up for anything I stated. Is that even a solution to the perks actual problems? No it's just a incredibly lazy answer which provides no actual information outside a genric response. Pretty sure your also the person who says DS should be changed yet wont provide details on how to change it.
Btw I hate how both NoeD and DS are designed. Yet with a few simple tweak would actually be reasonable.
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NOED is fine as is. Originally, it lasted forever and couldn't be disabled. Then they shortened the duration to 2 minutes. Now it's a hex perk.
The difference between "pressure gens" and "break the totems" is that "break the totems" is a clearly defined action with only one way to do it that works on every single map: break the totems. "Pressure gens" has a multitude of ways to go about it, making the term ultimately meaningless without more specificity.
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I think NOED is needed to introduce newer players to game mechanics, but the state it's in is unnecessarily unhealthy. A totem counter and hook requirement would remove these unhealthy aspects completely while still allowing it to do its job of introducing newer players to game mechanics. It's not like NOED is a meta perk and nerfing it would remove a key perk for killers from the meta or anything...
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Why get mad at your teammates? They can't tell that you want all the totems cleansed.
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I still think the overall movement speed bonus should be removed from it. If it wasnt for that one factor I never would care about it. I've seen far too many people win some chases on the back of that because of the speed bonus.
If it had an actual requirement other than lose 5 gens or close hatch. I probably wouldn't care either. Both PWYF and Devour Hope both require certain conditions to get the effects. Yet NoeD gets both effect for free by simply failing to play the game good.
Yet no matter what I do know neither NoeD or DS will be changed due to being reworked and the amount of complaints. I just get irritated when people say they are fair and balanced. On paper yes in practice far from it.
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You know what's in the middle of healthy and unhealthy....sick.
It's a sick perk that rewards failure to complete your objectives.
If you rely on it for kills , you are not a great killer.
With that said, I understand OPs point that nerfing it is going to force more killers to leave the game.
But on the other side, it may force killers to work on their middle game more.
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/yawn
Don't like it? Do totems.
Easy.
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Does that mean that entire playerbase who's not top skill killer shouldn't play ?
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What do you mean more killers leaving the game? I don't think that many have left so far.
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Being a bad killer doesn't mean you shouldn't play, it just means you shouldn't expect yourself to win.
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I have no problem with it, just don't respect it.
Won't use it as a killer.
As survivors we get 5 totems before we finish gens, or at least know what totems to check.
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That was in response to OPs point about killers leaving.
PS4 seems to have lost a bunch of killers.
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How can you tell? Are you facing the same killers over and over as survivor?
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I’m a killer main and I think NOED is stupid and should be nerfed. It is a crutch perk for killers who play bad. You’re going to have bad games as killer, but NOED is a reinforcer for poor gameplay and reliance on endgame when you’ve pretty much lost anyways
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You should gitgud. Its easy counterable.
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NOED is too powerful on good killers. If you're up against a good Spirit, Freddy, Nurse or Billy it's way too strong, since against those killers you don't have time to do totems, since if you waste your time finding and cleansing them you won't even make it to the endgame. Once all killers have been reworked or buffed like the Doctor was, NOED should be nerfed into the ground. But right now, there are more killers who need it to win than there are killers that it's op on, so it shouldn't be touched right now.
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Okay, I'll agree with you there.
At high ranks I don't respect it either.
There should be a Rank Limit to what perks you can use...BUT, then killers will start demanding the same for BT and DS.
So...eh?
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What's good for the goose...
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Never heard that one.
Ever.
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Que times have certainly increased, 10 minutes, sometimes more.
Not same over and over, but often enough, so when I send a gg, they are still in previous messages from other games, where I have messaged them before.
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Queue times have increased since when? Are you encountering them more often than before? I remember the high rank environment for killers was always pretty exclusive and I couldn't go a day without running into a killer I had played before.
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You still dont understand anything about this perk.
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Im not a top skill killer and i can still get a killer or 2 usually
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not really, games can literally end in about 5 minutes
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Personally I don't want a NOED nerf or change, I simply just want a totem number counter.
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"Killer players need to gitgud." Most killers started running it because of the changes to ruin. But, where were the "survivors need to gitgud."
Is it because NOED is a really good perk? To be fair, survivors should probably gitgud and break every totem on the map before ruin even spawns in.
IN reality, there are plenty of perks out there that scream "this side should get good." Slower killers almost have to rely on NOED now like they had to rely on old ruin. New ruin is useless to slower killers that have to set things up, so noed basically took it's place.
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If you have to have your teammates body block you so you can escape the game alive. Maybe they're just bad survivors. Also work on the difference between your and you're.
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