Queue Times Are Not Evidence of an Absence of Killers
Just wanted to let everyone know. The only things that we know for certain affect queue times are swf and swf matchmaking. Swf need more room in a lobby so a lot of lobbies are closed off to them. Swf matchmaking begins searching at the highest rank in the party, and since roughly 50% of all survivors are swf, 50% of all survivors are searching for lobbies higher than they should be. Other factors like the ranking system, matchmaking errors, and an incorrect ratio of killers and survivors are purely speculative and so queue times are not valid evidence that these factors exist. Matchmaking could be working fine, the ranking system could be okay, and there could be a healthy ratio of killers and survivors for all we know.
Edit: For those who would rather nitpick than offer anything constructive, solos and swf have the same core matchmaking characteristics. They are both looking to join a killer's lobby and neither care whether or not the lobby has enough survivors. They only care that there aren't too many survivors, meaning larger party sizes will have a harder time finding lobbies. I thought this would be simple and already well known, but apparently y'all don't know how this works.
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No. By that logic a 4 man would find a game as fast as killers find games, or even 2 man would find a match fairly quickly.
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I pointed out the issue with swf matchmaking and laid out things people can speculate on for themselves. The devs have not given us a definitive answer.
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What? I literally said in my post that swf queue times are hindered by their size and even possibly by their matchmaking. Nowhere did I state they find lobbies quickly.
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@Waffleyumboy Of course it is not. But I fear you are not heard, because it fits a narrative that there are not that many Killers. Because that queue time increased from one day to the next day is only because Killers are always punished. /s
Nah, the problem is that more players are queueing for a Spot in the Red Ranks, even tho they are not Red Ranks, because the Matchmaker uses the highest Rank. Before a 2 man SWF between a Rank 2 and a Rank 16 would have searched around Rank 9 (or should have searched). Now it would be searching for a Rank 2 Killer. More players in the same pot = longer queue time.
I assume it is because of the Rank Reset Change. Players dont get set back that much, so the low Rank players have it harder to find games. And at some point, high Rank SWFs and low Rank Killers have long queue times and the Matchmaker puts them both together.
But this is pure speculation.
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hin·der 1
(hĭn′dər)
v. hin·dered, hin·der·ing, hin·ders
v.tr.
To obstruct or delay the progress of: a snowfall hindered the mountain climbers; lack of funds that hindered research.
v.intr.
To interfere with action or progress.
By definition to hinder is to slow down.
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Yes swf queue times are slower than other players'
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I've also read somewhere supposedly if a killer leaves the lobby, the lobby has very high priority to get a replacement killer and ignores the matchmaking system to find a replacement.
I think this is partially why we see rank 20 killers vs rank 1 SWF. The original killer "Assigned" to that lobby decided to dodge and to prevent the survivors from waiting much longer (Imagine waiting like 20 minutes, FINALLY finding a lobby...killer dodges.) it just shoves in the first killer it finds. Which ends up being a baby trapper with rank 1 agitation.
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I knew the lobbies had high priorities, but them ignoring matchmaking logic would explain a lot of frustrations killers are having with matchmaking right now. Thanks for the contribution!
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In theory yes but in practice its probably not the case as outside of excluding 3/4 mans they'd need to be matched with less players then normal which should in theory speed up the match making.
4 man SWF only need to find 1 player that being the killer so they should have in theory faster if not the FASTEST ques not slower ques like you were saying.
with 2 man SWF in my experience there is little to no difference in match making times and outside of 3 man SWF shouldn't effect the match making times of others...AT ALL sense 2 mans can be matched with all other ques but 3 mans(4 doesn't count sense it doesn't search for survivors)..
3 man SWF has in theory the lowest sense they have the most limited pool needing 1 solo survivor ONLY and 1 killer ONLY.
So when examinded SWF should have faster ques and thus unhindered ques.
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Good one, meanwhile I can find a lobby as Killer in 0.0000001 seconds compared to a 10-minute queue time as survivor-which can only mean 1 thing. Way too many survivors, not enough killers.
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Where did I say you said that?
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Solos are also allowed to join up with a lobby that has just the killer. It's not swf exclusive.
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I'm not denying that there is a disparity in queue times, I am denying that it is proof of anything.
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You said my logic indicates swf finding games quickly. Pretty much the same thing right?
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What I am saying by your logic a 4 man should find a game as faster as a killer. Why because all they need of a killer.
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All solos need is a killer. Swf's can't join lobbies where there are too many survivors, hence why in lobbies it's quick finding the first few survivors but finding the last 2 or three takes some time.
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If your logic were really the case, a 4-man SWF, which only needs to find one other player, would have the fastest queues, and a solo survivor would have the same queue times as a killer.
Why don't you see if that's the case? Queue up as a solo survivor 10 times and record yourself, so we can see how long it took. Then do the same with killer.
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Solos don't need to find 4 players, they need to find a killer lobby with an open spot. Same with swf. The difference is solos fit into more lobbies. Geez how do so many people get this mixed up.
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Solos need to find 4 people 3 more survivors and 1 killer. Just like a 2 stack needs 3. And a 3 stack needs 2
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"The only things that we know for certain affect queue times are swf and swf matchmaking."
This also means that no one knows whether queue times are or are not caused by an absence of killers.
An absence of killers could be the cause of long queue times.
You might want to amend your title.
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Lobbies get filled almost instantly nowadays. The only time I see a lobby that doesn't have all 4 survivors and a killer ready to go is when one or more of them dodged.
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Nope they don't. When I queue up as solo I get matched up with just me and the killer quite often. I don't need to wait for the lobby to fill before the queue is over.
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I might, but I probably won't. People who read my post will get the idea well enough.
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Doesn't mean matchmaking has changed. Although this does show survivor priority retention is working.
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You're missing the point. Solo survivors don't get put into lobbies on their own, it's always to fill up a lobby. Therefore they should have the same queues as killers, since they need to search for the same number of players. If you disagree with my logic, then go ahead and write down a way in which your guess could be falsified, then go test it. Use a scientific approach, instead of just guessing.
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I don't need to guess. As solo, it is possible to load into a lobby that is not full. Do I need more science than that?
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No, you're probably just guessing.
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Also when did killers have to find people? Don't they create their own lobbies?
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Do you need more science than "this happens sometimes, therefore I'm right"? Yes, absolutely. Assuming you want people to take your guess seriously, that is.
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You're being willfully blind to the statement.
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Well go play solo and test for yourself. If I'm wrong, you'll only load into full lobbies.
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I don't have to.
I'll just guess like you did.
No tests needed.
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Not since dedicated servers, I think.
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Ok how should I go about this? Record myself playing solo and loading up into lobbies that aren't full? Would that work or is that not scientific enough?
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First, establish what would prove your guess to be false.
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I play on xbox so I'm used to lobbies always having a delay before survivors joined. It hasn't happened since servers went live on xbox, so I think you're right here.
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I'll load 50 lobbies before I give up on finding one that isn't full. Sound good?
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And how would that prove your guess to be false?
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The problem is that his guess doesn't make any predictions that can be tested, it just attempts to explain what is currently happening. Therefore the experiment needs to be made with the intent of falsifying the guess, instead of confirming it.
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Your edit is you denouncing anyone who brings up valid counter arguments/theories as nitpicking...
I do not think you want to have a proper discussion.
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Ummm...idk, doesn't it kind of prove that solos must find 3 survivors and a killer before they enter a lobby?
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Which proves nothing because the same would happen with a lack of killers.
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So me being wrong about why swf queues take longer is a valid theory as to how much queue times are indicative of the killer-survivor ratio? How exactly?
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The same would also happen with a bad ranking system or errors in matchmaking. It's all speculation, I can't prove queue times are not caused by a killer shortage, but neither can anybody prove the inverse.
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Since dedicated servers killers and survivors b both look for each other. That is why you can be in a lobby with a full team of survivor and no killer or a killer can have a lobby with 2vsurvivirs waiting for others
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Personally I find Queue times are really variable depending on time of day. Starting at like 9AM in the morning, Killer queue is slow and I find Survivor games really fast (though that may just be me not playing Survivor much) and starting at 9PM, Killer queue becomes lightning fast.
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A theory needs to be tested with scrutiny inorder to try to prove its its true or false and thus if a theory cannot survive the most basic level of scrutiny then either the theory or the way you got to the theory's conclusion is wrong.
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It could just be your region being empty in general. My rank 16 survivor alt account has queue times as fast as rank 4 killer.
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On the other hand, Occam's razor leads to the "killer shortage" hypothesis. It makes no assumptions and is therefore the simplest explanation.
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