About tunneling, DS and killers...
I see a lot of people complaining about DS being an anti-tunnel perk and to OP, which isn't right (the anti-tunnel thing) and I can kinda agree. How about we nerf significantly the duration of DS, and in exchange we get a bonus in carrying-struggle speed the more the killer picks up continuously, so that we can break free? That way even new players would learn this mechanics and try to bodyblock if a survivor is tunneled by the killer, and DS gets a big reduction of active time. Killers wouldn't tunnel the same survivor knowing that the possibilities of the survivor breaking free get bigger and survivors won't abuse DS.
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Just make the duration two minutes and let it work on both hook stages, but it gets deactivated if the survivor does anything except running away. Or another DS gets activated.
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Id rather ds stay in. I can play around ds, its fine. Shortening the wiggle time impacts everytime I pick someone up
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the simplest solution to me is this:
ds deactivates whenever someone else gets hooked.
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It should be clear, people are not complaining that DS is an anti-tunneling perk. Becuase we know full well it isn't. It's sole purpose was to "extend a chase". The whole idea of it being an "anti tunneling perk" is strictly from the community. However now it's being used for more than both of that, and has become an issue. There isn't a point that you should be getting hit by a DS every time you down a survivor simply because your good at killer and can end chases faster.
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I've seen this multiple times on the forums and its a bad solution. Punish the player on the hook (by disabling their perk that works on max 2 occasions during the game) for another player who goes down. Imagine being on the hook, oni/billy go away with their respective power, down someone and hook him right after you got unhooked. He gets back to the hook and tunnels you down. Even if you hooked someone else, you can still go back and tunnel the first person down. Just bc someone got hooked (bc the player got caught off guard or played bad) doesnt mean that you cant tunnel another person down.
My suggestion:
- timer goes 2x if the survivor works on gens, searches chests, cleanses totems, heals other players, opening gates, goes into a locker and/or during active EGC
- timer deactivates if you get healed or the deep wound state is activated
This would stop the chain of 2nd chance perks like being on the hook, getting unhooked + healed from adrenaline, gets hit twice bc of BT / styptic agent and still having DS. Also synergizes with second wind (get unhooked, work on gens for 30s, get healed for free while ds is active during that time) and counters perks like we will make it (soft counter, bc wwmi is 90s at t3) and adrenaline/bt.
The issue arent 2nd chance perks like ds but chaining them all together to take multiple hits and still being invulnerable to get picked up due to ds.
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Just to be clear, perk aside, what you just described isnt tunneling. Its juggeling. They are very different things and definitions matter
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If a Survivor gets off one gen early and goes to another, should he be punished for going back to the first gen?
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Still why should one survivor be punished for the mistake another one did? I'd say this might be fair for full swf teams, but not randoms. Most teams consist of at least 1 or more random team mates. How does your suggestion help with multiple 2nd chance perks other than adrenaline? All gens are done, surv gets unhooked with bt & ds, is able to make a lot of distance to the door and still cant be picked up for <60s or until you down + hook another surv. I think this is one of the main reasons why killers are unhappy about ds.
Can you elaborate? After he got unhooked? Right when the game started? Is this comment about the suggestion of the 2x timer for gen repair?
Surv gets unhooked: 60s timer starts, he works on a gen for 15s which consumes 30s of his ds. If he leaves the gen, his timer goes back to normal (max 30s minus the time from hook to gen).
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'Even if you hooked someone else, you can still go back and tunnel the first person down.'
I basically just disagree with you on that. if you as the survivor have time to prepare for the killer, what's the problem? I'm most frustrated when I don't have a chance whatsoever, but if someone else is being hooked it's totally within my power to succeed in a chase or find a good hiding spot. and that only describes the worst case scenario in which my allies for whatever reason want me to die. usually the person who unhooks me has the good sense to intercept a killer when they've noticed his pattern, I do the same when the roles are reversed.
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I didnt make a suggestion. I think ds is fine how it is. I might reduce the time by about 15 secs but thats it. My only point was you used the word tunneling when what you described wasnt tunneling. Almost every survivor ive ever spoken too uses that word incorrectly. And since they dont know what tunneling actually is they get unnecessarily butt hurt over literally nothing.
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It's ok to disagree, thats the point of a forum :) all good m8
Ok maybe I used the wrong term but imagine this scenario; you're getting hooked, nea comes around to farm you right off the hook, she unhooks you but goes down, killer decides to pickup the nea right below the hook and go after you again to counter your ds. Is this still juggeling bc he "went after the nea" (even tho she hook bombed you)? Always assume the "worst case scenario" for both sides: for killer its to apply pressure on other surv and still get ds'd, surv is to get unhooked, focussed and cant use their perk that they equipped for that exact scenario. Both are unfun for each side.
People have different opinions on whats tunneling or whats juggeling, imo there is no exact definition for that. But for me its tunneling if the killer is focussing to get that one kill by any means necessary ( :P ) after they just got unhooked. If the killer goes back right to the hook/hooked person (ingoring everyone else) to secure their kill/next hook stage, independent of what he does during the hook stage. It's the most effective way of securing kills as killer, but not great for the person on the hook. Thats why this is such a controversial topic.
I get your point about juggeling to deactivate ds (killers shouldnt be punished for applying pressure), but it's not easy to balance perks around every scenario ingame. Too many variables. Thats why I think ds in its current form is too strong combined with other ingame perks.
People who get butthurt over a discussion shouldnt be on the forums in the first place :)
//Edit
sorry forums logged me out, so I had to rewrite this post. I merged my answer for both of you into 1^^
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Tunneling is when you focus on 1 person through all 3 hooks. In the scenario you described the killer let you go, picked up Nea. Hooked her, then went back looking for you, that isnt tunneling. Its a smart play, but the smarter play would have been to down you and leave you slugged and chase nea, probably downing her pretty quick since shes already injured. Hook her and leave you slugged and go chase someone else to work around your possible ds. In either case, no its not tunneling. Tunneling has a definition, people try and rewrite definitions to suit their agendas (you see this every where in and outside of gaming). In this case survivors convince killers tunneling is anytime you chase a person off hook and thats just simply not true.
As far as ds is concerned, just play around it. It should be pretty rare you eat one. The only time i eat one is if its still really early in the match and someone does something stupid (like what you described). If were at 4 or 5 gens left still im picking you up and you better have ds
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Make DS base kit and then you can make those changes
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Well, the killer is just hooking the nea to be able to tunnel and work around ds. I'd say its a game mechanic that allows tunneling under a certain condition. For you its juggeling. I'd still count it, you obviously dont.
Can you link me the official definition of tunneling in dbd? Like I said: people have different opinions on what is and what is not tunneling, which is alright. Is your definition of tunneling the one and only true definition, based on said official definition or your own experience/opinion?
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Comes right up when you google it. Its also logical, "tunneling" is short for "tunnel vision" in that you dont see the match anymore you just see the person you want to kill.
Juggeling is when you bounce back and forth between 2 different survivors until their both dead. Its an advanced tactic, the difference is though good killers that like to juggle arent soley focused on those two survivors. If theres a really good opportunity for someone else theyll take it.
The scenario i described, where i down you, hook nea and go and chase someone else doesnt have a name that Im aware of, though it should. Its for sure pressure though.
Im sure if you ask the devs theyll confirm what im saying
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Sorry for the long post you don’t have to read it all . Personally as someone who is both a killer and survivor. I don’t like to tunnel survivors Why only focus on one person an entire match Or until their caught 🤷♂️ If you even catch them. Sometimes they beat me and escape other times they lose. But my point here is don’t just go after one person there are three others you could go find and chase. As a survivor it is never fun to be the person being tunneled which I can understand. But you have to remember that’s just how the game works.You can’t always expect to win every game And beat the killer. And as for Some killers who Enjoy trying to 4K every game. I get that you want you’re blood points Which is your goal to kill. But you also can’t expect to win every game as well. I agree this is a competitive game and people have different ideas of how the game should be played and that’s ok. As people we would boring if we all had the same play style. Just remember to treat others the way you would like to be treated. If someone chooses to be toxic well then they will always be toxic. Remember to always ignore People’s rude comments if you keep egc on don’t give them any of your time or attention. At the end of the day it’s just a game don’t take any online game To serious. Just play how you want to play everyone’s style of DBD is different. Some come online to have fun while others come here to bully as a killer who Mori’s you even if you’re not toxic to them and or survivors who some say bully killers in a SWF group .
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So the User "RaginAsian" is the one who defines it? A player with less than 500hrs ingame who posted his definition of tunneling in a steam forum? Sounds more like his own definition and not smth official. Thats like you're quoting yourself to say "thats the official definition".
Im sure if you ask the devs theyll confirm what im saying. <- I wouldnt bother any dev about this, maybe a forum/community moderator? Not sure how qualified these people are, but they probably got that title for a reason.
Just bc its the first thing that pops up on google doesnt mean that this is THE definition. Its just one of the answers that someone posted and google assumes that this was the best answer for whatever reason (there is no thumbs up or down, marked as best answer etc.) So if the killer downs another survivor that bodyblocks to deny the tunnel, its not tunneling anymore? Even if he leaves the other survivor on the floor to go after the unhooked person? The only difference is, that he downs/hooks the nea (described scenario above) to work around ds. And thats were our definitions/opinions drift apart.
You're probably right, its not tunneling but its neither really juggeling. Something inbetween that we can agree on? You can pick the name ;)
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Not just ragin asian, it was listed below that too. And its the definition ive seen given by yters as well. We can agree to disagree but anytime a survivor tells me im tunneling when im not i just laugh at them 🤷♂️
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