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Momento moris should be stylistic feature not balance-breaking tool
When I was a "young" killer, I'd bring along moris to bag me a fast kill because I very quickly realised the difference having to deal with 1 vs 3 instead of 1 vs 4 early game is just stupid easy. Eventually over time I could see such "victories" don't exactly accumulate to plenty of BPs; the resultant number of activities in-match were too few; for everybody involved. The outcomes don't gel well together, and the matches certainly don't feel "well fought". For the interests of BPs I typically reserve the action until later on in the match to let everybody do more stuff per match.
While I may play killer mainly to "farm" points (and my enjoyment of matches largely based on sheer number activities per match rather than actual victory/defeat - it's more exciting to watch a 104-102 basketball match than 50-7), the problem is there are more than enough other players who just want to win 4K. The higher "level" of competition, the more probable this method gets employed to ensure wins. So the more seasoned a player (killer), the more likely s/he is to use cheap tricks; and that doesn't make good gaming sense. Veterans ought to be able to use advanced techniques to display superiority. Compared to other games, this style is very unfriendly to spectators too; feels like a referee popped out of nowhere to give a player a red card.
Obviously, this balance changer is frustrating survivor side. For a game balanced for 4 vs 1, having one survivor tunneled and retrenched from the workforce early does not make the rest 75% efficient; they're actually operating at a significantly lower level from that point. I feel the game design should let killers match up their capabilities by perks and add-ons against survivors' perks and add-ons, and not too much by offerings.
I reckon momento mori offerings, ideally, should just be a stylistic alternative to death hooks. Or at the very least, should have more requirements in order to earn the kill (like hex:devour hope or rancor which I feel has better balance). At the end I want a design that makes both sides strive all the way to the end, because the outcome is not highly predictable.
Comments
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If the game woud be just about perks and addons it might be fine.
But the game evolved, and now resolves around communication a lot. I take moris to have a fighting chance against swf, because they dont use only perks and addons.
solve the swf problem, and i am fine with moris changing or gone
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Well, the cypress mori should be base-kit and the moris over-all should be only on death hooks.
But keys are a thing too though. Yesterday i was playing killer and after 4 gens i managed to finally get a kill (all the other survivors were on death hook). It was a nice 3 gen situation with very close gens. I patrolled the gens for 30ish seconds and then all of them escaped through hatch. Pretty fair, huh? After their lack of strategy for avoiding a 3 gen situation, they still got rewarded for that because of an item.
And this isn't the only problem, i understand that killers have mori's and survivors have keys, but key's addons are extremely powerful. The guy with the key had Object of Obsession with that key addon that let you see the killer when he is in a 32 meters range for 45 seconds. I was unable to do anything about that, mindgames were impossible bcs he was able to see me at every moment in the game.
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Well, at high ranks I see keys regularly. Maybe in 1/4 to 1/3 of the matches. So if the survivors get 3 gens done I will lose the game. That's 80 seconds with the team alive, with 1 survivor urban evading in a corner of the map.
Assuming you spawn into the match, find someone in 20 seconds, down them in 30, that's already half the match over when a key is involved. I have games where 2 gens pop before corrupt is even expired.
So I think mori's are fine as they are right now.
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While this thread isn't specifically about SWF, yes I feel SWF shouldn't even be in the game at all. Unless one of the friends is the killer as well.
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That makes no sense, how would that solve the issue with SWF?
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Since the hatch is kind of like a "last survivor" feature, I also question whether a key should let multiple people though, especially more effective with a SWF group. A better balance could be to reduce the key into a "ticket", per-person entry. If everybody wants out through that avenue, they must have their own keys.
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The problem with SWF is some poor stranger killer has to counter the unfair coordination the survivors have with voice comms. At least if another friend is the killer, s/he knows exactly what lies ahead. There've been calls for a casual mode so SWF can operate there instead of in the public competitive ladder.
Anyway, I don't really want to turn this into an SWF discussion. I do not see moris as a "solution" for SWF.
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That just means keys would screw over solo Q players, who already leave their teams behind with keys sometimes. SWF with a map and a key is probably the easiest thing in DBD, but most people prefer flashlights since SWF is so OP to begin with that screwing around with the killer all match is way more fun.
Gens can get done in 3-4 minutes. Cut that requirement in half with a key. But survivors will still cry about camping and tunneling when they can bring 4x second chances into a 4-5 minute game. Is nerfing mori's the answer to that? I don't think so.
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If the SWF team doesn’t know how to play the game comms mean nothing.
Comms in very little situations become strong, but again if the player doesn’t know what to do with that information it doesn’t matter if they are SWF or not.
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You gotta be nuts. Having 4 people on voice comms is like giving every survivor another 4+ perk slots. You get bond, empathy, after-care, kindred, etc all for free. If an object user is involved, which alot of the top teams have (if they just all don't have it).
"Hey, the killer is X, he's at Y location"
"He's chasing me guys, go work on gens"
"He left me, 1 person come save"
In very few situations is that information useful.....
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This thread isn't about SWF per se, nor about individual survivor experience.
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Odd thing is my region (Southeast Asia) sports more moris than keys. Given the 4:1 ratio one would've thought otherwise. Today alone, nearly every killer I faced brought alone a mori. Did I mention they tried their very best to tunnel and cull the flock?
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Survivors have to complete as many generators as there are survivors left alive, plus one. There is no guarantee that a survivor will escape via hatch.
If a survivor gets hooked once, it is a guarantee they can be mori'd, and usually are.
Keys are not the problem. Keys would be a problem if after the first generator was completed, hatch spawned and everyone could escape. THAT would be a real problem. Keys allow survivors to escape when all other avenues seem impossible.
Killers often tunnel someone with a key anyways. It's always funny bringing in a broken key just to see how a Killer reacts.
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Uhm, okay. So 3 escapes bcs they played poorly after they did 4 gen on a single side of the map resulting in a 3 gen situation it's totally okay, plus the addons that they have wallhacks all game long because of that. Yeah dude, you do you
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The hatch will also spawn and open if there's only one survivor remaining, no matter what.
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Yeah, it happens. You still have to work for your 4K. Just because all the gens are done doesn't mean we automatically escape. I've seen Killers wipe a whole party with the gates powered, without noed. The game ain't over til it's over. And Killers have the advantage of speed and map control, so you're likely to find the hatch before they do.
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I don't know why these conversations always end up this way. Someone wants to have a serious discussion about ONE aspect of the game. But then someone always inevitably goes "NO, we can't have a discussion about THAT part of the game until we have a discussion about THIS part of the game. Scoot over kid, I'm taking the wheel and we're driving off this mountain pass into the ravine below."
Like, it's in every Mori thread. Every. Single. One. Like you're somehow unable to make your own and keep the discussion on topic there, no you have to come in and derail a topic because it's absurd that anyone would talk about a mechanic of the game that LITERALLY CUTS THE GAME SHORT BY 60% because they find it unfair that a survivor might escape instead of stand there in a staring contest woth you for 20 minutes on the open hatch.
And the people who complain about keys never offer a goshdang alternative! I only see it in Mori threads. "Hey why don't do this to Mori's so survivors don't feel like they wasted time even queuing up?" "NO WE NEED TO FIX KEYS FIRST." Okay grandpa jeez you don't need to scream at me I have working ears.
Like if you're going to hijack a thread and complain about a completely different mechanic than the posted topic, at least offer a solution that isn't, "delete keys because keys." That doesn't give a solution to the conversation, it just shuts it down.
Which maybe you're trying to do that, fair play. But everyone else wants to have a conversation about it, why do you get to dictate what the conversation can be?
And obviously I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm not calling you out. I'm using "you" as a hypothetical.
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Making moris more ritualistic/cinematic gives them more weight and keeps it in line with the Entitys will. I think that would be a fine change.
And the Hatch lock thing would be great. If killers know where the hatch is, they would make it a race to the hatch and survivors would have to look for two things instead of one.
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