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Devs are looking at "survivor-sided" maps, but not killer sided ones"
Shelter woods and both swamp maps are objectively the easiest map for almost any killer. Shelter Woods has a huge deadzone in the middle, almost no jungle gyms/ pallets, and what few jungle gyms there are, are way too far apart, not to mention the huge sight lines and with so few windows (3 windows on the map max) and only one place to fall from (into the basement) both Lithe and Balanced landing useless. the only way for survivor to win on this map is if they genrush, and only experienced and coordinated survivors are going to pull that off
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The swamps..killer sided..now that's a meme in itself lol
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The good news is that they said that they're looking at the dead zones. So they are looking at that.
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True true, especially with the older maps. they tended to be more one sided. I do find that the most recent one, the deathslingers map that they did even it out better.
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The thing is, when a map is bad for survivors they universally know that they have to rush the gens or get slaughtered, SWF or not.
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The point is they've been looking at "survivor sided" maps for a while, and have been nerfing pallets and loops heavily since the start of the game, but they're just now talking about deadzones
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Shelter Woods isn't good for every killer. It's not that great for Ghostface because it's easy to see him coming a mile away. Also if survivors know how to run tiles, nearly every pallet on this map is safe and you have to break them as killer. It's also really easy to split the map. I think Shelter Woods is a fair map.
Swamp maps only favor killers that use totems. Main building on Grim Pantry is still strong even after the window change. There are a good amount of dead zones on these maps but if you play stealthy they can be rough for killers too.
Hawkins is a better example of a killer sided map. Very small, confusing layout, well hidden totems, and no sight lines to see where the killer is coming from. The only killers that are not so good here are like Billy and Oni. Pretty much every killer has a massive advantage.
Lerys also can be very killer sided but with there being as many windows/pallets as there are it's a bit of a coin toss.
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The vast majority, like 90% of the maps were more survivor sided, that's why. There are very few killer sided maps and even the couple that are, it's not nearly as extreme in their favor as the survivor ones were.
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Agree with shelter woods. That map really needs to be changed.
There is no hills or structures there for balanced landing, and the totem spots are soooo bad. Any hex you have will be gone instantly. Not sure about the deadzones, but the middle of the map should be an interactive loop rather than a big ass useless tree.
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The point is they've been nerfing survivor since the game was released, and killer only gets nerfed in extreme situations (spirit beads) or in the case on bugs/ exploits (which are not really nerfs but the killer community call them nerfs)
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Yeah, swamp maps are pretty nice as survivor. Not the whole map but I don't think this map is sided in any way. Leaving it to one of 39 maps that is heavily killer sided. But wait, stats say indoor maps are the most killer sided maps. Sooooo.... may "objectively" be the wrong word and you actually mean "subjectively"?
Beneath that, survivor sided maps were the bigger part of the balance issue which got adressed in JUST THAT RECENTLY RELEASED PATCH. So guess what will happen next, if there is a heavily killer sided map balance now? How about igve them time to measure and go on with balancing? Pretty sure they will release a roadmap tomorrow containing map reworks, probably even which map or set of maps will be adressed.
Btw Lithe is so completely not useless on Shattered Wood. Maybe you count the windows again in a custom game... And did you know that you can trigger Lithe also on pallet vaulting? There are enough pallets that killers try to mindgame, allowing you a Lithe vault
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Because survivors have been brokenly strong and needing nerfs since release.
Just because one side gets a nerf doesn't mean now the other side gets a nerf. This isn't a counting game where each side gets an equal amount of nerfs. The entire point is to get the game balanced and very few things on killer side are "overpowered", bar like mori's.
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If they are looking into survivor sided maps then someone must have closed their eyes when ormond popped up that map is utter trash for both sides.
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I think they started with Survivor sided maps simply because there were more of them.
I do disagree about Shelter Woods, while there is a massive deadzone, almost every pallet on that map is safe. Plus, stealth Killers have a terrible time since there is nothing to hide their approach.
Hawkins is a better example. While I personally do not have any problems with it, I understand a lot of the community finds it frustrating. As Killer, it feels like there are a ton of pallets and vaults. As Survivor, it feels like there are no good loops and no safe pallets.
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shelter woods is 50/50, yes the middle is a dead zone but the outsides is deadly as hell. i played a game today with a jungle gym window into a pallet into a jungle gym window. i could just keep running from window to window and it was broken af. i personally dont feel any map is massively in the killers favor, i do have alot of experience so that could be why i dont feel it as much but if they didnt balance it for my sort of level then youd be lucky to ever get a hook. id say shelter woods and rotten fields can be killer friendly, but not killer sided. (these maps have loops all around the sides) swamp is survivor sided easily, the main structures hold multiple pallets and windows
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It should really have a main building in the middle though and some dedicated balanced landing spots.
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Because the survivor sided maps are more abundant and problematic.
Swamp maps are not killer sided. Pale Rose is about a 50/50 but Grim Pantry has never been killer sided. That main building is still pretty strong. Plus the docks on that maps are dumb structures.
Shelter Woods is arguably the only killer sided map which I agree needs a change. It is a fairly large map though so it evens it out a little.
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The entire map on every map is a dead zone 😂 they keep destroying loops. Few are even solid loops now. There’s a strong side and a weak side to every loop but why is it that these pallets are useless 😂 why do they put walls a foot wide on either side so the killer can just walk around? Is it not intended to cut the killer off while you’re running from him?
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No, it's intended to make him take a slightly longer path, not to stop him from chasing you at all.
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That still is to be expected. Survivors were insanely overpowered on release, so all of those nerfs were necessary to get the game into a more balanced state, and for many killers still isn't quite there even.
Luckily we have finally gotten to the point where a majority of Killers are red rank swf viable and the ones that aren't are going to be looked at soon (specifically they are looking at clown and bubba).
This means that it wouldn't be unreasonable for things like bloodlust to be nerfed or some of the stronger red addons like the huntresses 1 shot hatchets. Not to mention mori's of course.
Meanwhile on the Survivor side keys need a rework and then that's pretty much it for major balance issues. The rest is either numbers changes to things like DS and a ton of perk buffs that need to happen on both sides. For example they mentioned giving a gameplay altering effect to WGLF, which would be really cool.
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Possible explanations:
- There are more survivor-sided maps
- Survivor-sided maps are easier to fix
- Survivor-sided maps are more survivor-sided than killer-sided maps are killer-sided
- Maps are supposed to be killer-sided by design
Now I await the person who's going to focus on the last point, call me biased (even though I'm just offering possible explanations that I came up with and they don't necessarily reflect my or the devs' opinions), and say something about "killer mains", even though I'm a survivor main.
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Riiiight...pretending it makes any difference..I mean seriously lol
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I play killer more often than not, but I’m forced to disagree AND agree with your statement. Looking at the game from an unbiased overall standpoint that supports balance, I do believe there are maps that favor survivors. Bare in mind, this is my own opinion based on the thousands of matches I’ve personally had.
So I agree there are killer sided maps, but there are also survivor sided maps (even after the re-work). However, I disagree with the maps you listed. While Shelter Woods is lacking strong survivor tiles, the sheer size of the map does benefit survivors, which makes the map killer sided ONLY for a few specific killers: IMO: Billy/Oni/Huntress/Nurse(with range add-ons only), and Deathslinger can do decent here, but with his ranged attack restricted, I would call the map balanced for him. As far as Black Swamp goes, I (with all due respect) have to laugh that one off, that’s survivor sided to me.
The maps I believe are killer sided are: Grave of Glendale, Hawkins Laboratory and Torment Creek. The first 2 are obvious, they both lack strong loop tiles and Glendale is a small map. I’m sure not many killer mains will agree with my Torment Creek mention, how dare a Coldwind Farm map be on a supposable killer sided map list, but it’s really not very good. Even before map adjustments that were recently made, it’s smaller (or at least seemed smaller while playing it) and thus easier for a killer to apply map pressure with only 1 god loop, and I do not count the killer shack as a god loop, a semi-decent killer can force the survivor away from the shack in 15 seconds or so with the pallet now toast.
As mentioned, these are my own opinions, I’m sure you have yours, and I’ll be glad to hear you all out as you have heard me out.
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That will fix many complains about the map reworks. Hell i even got blood lodge without a single pallet in the middle a few times it's crazy.
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Look up the map sizes of all maps and compare, you would be surprised. :)
After the recent changes the main shack on torment creek stayed pretty strong with the double window loop. Just my experience tho.
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They actually are looking at ALL maps. We now know they were working on a (new) licensed map + licensed killer. They explicitly said that older maps (like shelter woods) need their spawning logic improved to the new system, which yes, reduces dead zones. They only have so much time and the design team has to both pick new designs AND work with the graphics team to make them look good. Art takes time, and so does testing new spawning logic. All the changes they made so far have made maps fairer. When they make a change that makes maps LESS fair, people will tell them, and hopefully they'll fix it.
But they're also basing their priorities on maps that are strongly biased one way or the other.
It also might be harder to rework Hawkins, for example in the form of new art assets, due to ongoing licensing consults. Unsure, depends on what their licensing deal looked like.
This is likely definitely true for The Game, which in many ways contains features replicating the gideon meat plant and SAW deathtraps.
Lerys and Dead Dawg, as much as people might not like to admit it, are pretty fair maps. The saloon ISN'T a god loop and it's just new so people overestimate it. Lerys is very fair EXCEPT for a specific god loop they said they're gonna fix soon.
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This is confirmation bias. You're looking for it, and think it's new, because you know changes were made, but the only change to number of pallets was on one Crotus Prenn map (disturbed Ward). Every other map's pallet spawning is still the same. The specific configuration you're mentioning - blood lodge with 0 pallets in the middle- happens when the maximum number of outlying jungle gyms and low loops happens. There is a reverse version where the middle has 2-4 almost directly adjacent pallets, which we also see on coal tower just outside sometimes.
This is not a result of the recent patch, it's, and someone from dev might correct me if I'm wrong, it's because the new spawning logic system hasnt' been applied to old maps like blood lodge, allowing these outlier situations to happen.
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Remember that survivor sided maps allways need to be fixed over killer sided maps
4 survivors can put a coldwind or swamp offering, while killers can only put 1
Also what do you consside killer sided? maybe the game,autoheaven and mcmillain state maps
other then that they are all survivor sided
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The only 2 maps I consider should be looked at for survivors are hawkings and maybe the game, hawking is a mess full of unsafe loops and the game is too small.
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The only killer sided map imo is Hawkins. The rest one are balanced or being survivor sided. The game is very good map for looping since most of pallets are safe.
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