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Why is survivors loosing addons still a thing
After all the reasons that people have given as too why it was an awful and stupid idea that does nothing to truly help killers and only kill the suvivors fun , i am chocked that this update hasnt been reverted yet or that at leats some more updates have been implemented to make it more fair for survivors to get addons or that buffs to items and survivors addons have been made to make it understandable as too why you would loose them
also white ward still don't work as intented
stop catering to killers thx , for 2 years now all you have done is catering to them , they are no longer victims of anything outside of themselves being bad at the game
Comments
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Well, sadly it is intended that White Ward works like that. So I guess the goal should be that you ######### when you have a White Ward so that you can keep your Add Ons.
And well, ti is considered "fair" that Survivors lose their Add Ons, because Killers lose them as well. Of course we ignore the fact that the Killer gets way more BPs. :>
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Killers still lose addons so I don't see the problem with survivors also losing addons.
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and also the fact that they have way WAY less stuff in the bloodweb so its easier for them to get what they need
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lets see because survivors gain way less bloodpoints , survivors addons are not as good far from it compare to killer addons and survivors bloodwebs have about 100 or so items in it where killers have about what 40 ? so its way easier for them to get good addons
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Good survivors absolutely can get as many blood points and while survivors bloodwebs have more in them a bunch of those they can keep using indefinitely until death and be acquired mid match to save bp by acquiring them without cost.
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Thats one part of the problem - those "select few" are hard to get. Because Survivor Bloodwebs are flooded with useless stuff.
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Part of the reason for the change was the "win more" aspect of a lot of the stronger add-ons which help you beat the match thus keeping them so you can make the next match easier to win and so on and so forth.
SWF primarily abused this to greatly extend their win streaks and thus causing this change so that everyone suffers due to them.
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Survivor Add Ons are basically all nerfed. The only one which is probably better than before is BNP, but only because everything else in regards to toolboxes was made insanely weak (so its not like the BNP became better, but the other stuff got worse).
Just try to get a Low-Amp Filament. It takes a while.
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Because you still haven't figured out that lose and loose are two different words.
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I never said the opposite its just its really unfun for survivors its like whenever i get a green or purple addons in my bloodweb i don't ever wanna use it because i know i won't get 1 again in maybe 20 bloodwebs , at leats killers know that after maybe 2 bloodwebs they will get their stuff back easily
BBQ say hi so no survivors can't and even without BBQ KILLERS EASILY GET MORE
90 % of survivors items are crap in general and good ones are crap without decent addons , addons that you cannot found into chest mid match unless you take a perk that isnt even this good and really that doenst guarantee you will even get anything decent , even more those items you get "mid match" are always poop quality i don't even bother looking into chest anymore unless i have a chest build or i have nothing better to do
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If you want better items in match there are perks for that. A plunders can get you a lot of purples, pharmacy garenteed green medkits. I've farmed a lot of yellow medkits even without perks. I'm pretty lucky, got 9+ of those on some of my characters. Survivors do have a bbq equivalent, I run it quite often. Worse than bbq but it's a survivor perk so it shouldn't be as good.
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Trapper,Wraith,Leatherface,Clown are 100% add on reliant in my opinion
Nurse and Ghostface are a bit add on reliant because of their long cooldowns
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I think he/she just means that it's really hard to get a specific add on as survivor as opposed to killers that can easily get the addons they want which i agree on.
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I mean if you bring strong addons as a survivor you should bring them expecting to lose them or use them to have an advantage in 1 game not in all of your games until you lose the item finally. Every game you could bring a styptic and just not use it 80% of the time but the 20% where you do it just punishes the killer that was good enough to make you use it. Its a great change because now you think about what addons to get / use because you don't get 5 good ones that last for a month you get all kinds of variety from good to mediocre.
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I remember creating a thread there I discussed an idea of survivors being able to get more than one item during a trial and I got mostly negative drawback from killers who were totally against it despite all the possible pros they could get. Overall they claimed that survivors need to loose their add-ons as well, so it's something that community wanted, I guess.
But the fun part is that, considering the usual amount of bloodpoints survivors get, using survivor items with add-ons is EXTREMELY expensive and not as effective as killer add-ons in any sort of way most of the times. Comparation:
For survivor: Brown toolbox (3000) + Instructions (3000) + Clean Rag (3000) = extreme waste of space (9000!!! It's nearly a half of usual survivor BP gain! AND IT HURTS MY SOUL HOW USELESS IT IS.)
For a killer (the Spirit): Gifted Bamboo Comb (3000) + Zori (3000) = powerful add-ons that help a lot (just 6000, it's just a 1/4 of all bloodpoints a killer usually gets, drop BBQ and you're rich!)
Now, waste your bloodpoints on useless items and add-ons you may just loose during a match while you have a whole cast of characters you need to prestige and/or level up! Grind is fun!!! And don't forget that now you'll always loose your add-ons, unless you bring a perk that isn't really meta in any way.
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let me repply with another question why killers losing addons is a thing?
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That's the main complaint.
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should have always been a thing
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Killers gain more bloodpoints because they actually have to do more. It's 4v1. Nice try - but your argument is non existent.
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wow almost like not everyone is a born english speaker congrat you mastered your own langague
i never said i didnt see value , the opposite I see so much value in them I don't wanna waste them after only 1 game only to spend 40 games to get the item back in my bloodweb
most survivors items even in green or purple are trash unless you have good addons and its all random
"great" addons are already a 1 time use and destroys the item already so your point makes no sense
because killers have every means to get them back easily , survivors don't
that is a stupid point , killers don't do more , okay then if i go solo as survvior i will expect a free 100 % bloodpoint boost after all now that i am solo i am doing more
also them gaining more bp is the smallest diff as too why its okay for them to loose addons compare to why survivors shouldnt they have 40 items in their bloodwebs , survivors have 100+ , survivors legit need 5 x more bloodpoints compare to killer to get the same value out of their bloodwebs and yet they gain less
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Because killers only have arounf 20 Add ons per killer and make more bp AND have bbq which is a good perk on its own but also gives blood points
While survivors have almost 60 add ons, make less bp and only perk to help with bloodpoints is wglf which is already hard enough to get stacks with but it also gives no advantage to the survivor
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But survivor addons can have a way more significant impact on the course of a game (Huntress addons the clear exception). Weaved Ring + Milky Glass are good examples of this.
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Nothing stopping you to play killer to gain BP to spend on survivor.
Or did you mean killers who invest BP into strong addons get more Bp than survivors who dont bring items?
Or is the whole argument talking about good killers? Who apparantly are slightly more common than the endagered, near extinct good survivors, according to the forum.
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I'm a killer main and it's BS that survivors lose their addons.
Makes no sense, you can't compare our 3 or 4 addons that we use regularly, every match to
- Medkit addons used daily.
- Key addons used daily.
- Flashlight addons used daily.
As Nurse I literally use 1 Range Addon and a Recharge Addon. That's at least 3 addons I explicitly use.
As Huntress I use Infantry Belt and Flower Babushka.
As Wraith, Uncloaking speed and faster action speed, that's 2 or 3 addons.
It's pretty stupid on their end. Makes 0 sense.
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Me: Gives you valid reason.
You: Nuh uh!
That's pretty much what just happened. My point wasn't stupid. It was the actual answer. I'm right, you are not. That's just the long and short of it. Take the L.
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it’s just unfortunate that add ons for both sides are treated the same because they aren’t. One side has consumable Items and add ons the other doesn’t. So why are they both requiring Wards to keep them? Killer add ons are way more powerful. They should lose those every game 😂 You got plenty of use out of them I’m sure. The brand new part I brought into the game well, I might have missed one or both. Even if I got both there is also ruin or pop that might regress it making it useless. Survivor add ons that aren’t consumable are also very weak. The best non consumables were the charges but those were nerfed really hard! It’s getting pretty bad. Constantly I go into games as a survivor where I feel my items just go to waste and they’re being treated the same as the killer add ons that get use every game? The offering Mori sees plenty of use every game but my key isn’t always guaranteed? That’s the problem with survivors is that nothing you bring in is always guaranteed and you don’t even get to keep the items once you escape with them. That’s part of the reward in my opinion. That’s why they should keep them.
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Ah yes, Dedicating 25% of my Perk Slots to a Perk without any other effect than BP Gain for which I either have to go out of my way and rush for Unhooks or might take Protection Hits which will not benefit my team.
And 20k Points is already quite a decent Survivor Match, while it is a bad Killer Match. Killer is more like 25k Points at least, with BBQ (4 Stacks are basically guaranteed when not complete Potato) 50k Points. On a regular Basis. 20 Games to get to the Cap.
With Bloodwebs which most likely have at least 1 or 2 of the Add Ons a Killer uses on a frequent basis.
Yay. The change was not thought through by the Devs. And saying that this was always intended (after 4 years) and not taking into account the huge difference in BP-Gain between Killers and Survivors shows it even more.
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hmmm this question again? easy to do... stop using them, if they are that valuable to you, just stop using them. horde them. killers don't always get what they want. I've been trying to get logger dye on my trapper for 15 blood webs! (the green dye for traps) I have 0. and you're telling me that I AM supposed to get one every 3 blood webs??? lol how about none for over 15 blood webs! IF you want a specific item you have just as much of a chance in getting it as the killers. how about this we remove the ability for you survivors to be "SKINS" and require you to PLAY a different character for what ever power you want??? ok.. CLAUDETTE's power is now a med kit. no one else gets them. claudette now gets only a med kit add-ons and nothing more. Jake is a sabateur, he can only get add-ons for a sabo build toolbox, but he's lucky his tool box can help slightly less than dwight's toolbox who gets gen repair add-ons. so on, and so forth..... you FORGET that if killers want to trap people with bear traps they HAVE to play the trapper, survivors can play claudette and get gen repair toolboxes. you are the ones whining here, you can go ahead and keep whining aobut your precious generator repair schematics or your medical scissors, I have gotten more green gauze charge items in survivor blood webs than I have gotten logger dye on trapper blood webs. so much so that I never am without the extra 16 med kit charges on my dwight (that I RARELY PLAY).... so please tell me again how killers are catered to? meh i laugh at this argument and laugh at the survivor privelige that I can't as killer play wraith with bear traps to FAKE you guys out!
Why do I say that? you bring a med kit i have to guess if it's a brown one with brown add ons or a purple one with purple add ons or in between. Now as trapper you follow me in the early minute of game and see me place three traps around the shack. you pretty much know I have a purple bag right there, and then you look at the traps and notice they are very dark. now you know my two addons, and I know nothing of yours as I haven't seen you yet. but when i do, I know nothing of what that med kit can do. You know you can trigger my traps without being hurt yet I don't know how many times you can heal yourself. you say killer gets all the information, they don't they get minimal info and no one is there to help them as in with a SWF (even a two man). So I think you might want to rethink your thoughts before you argue your way into having to buy all the skins for every survivor in order to look cool when you have specific powers on your survivors.
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The difference in BP gain is irrelevant and a red herring argument. Killers get more BP because it's 4v1 and they have more to do as part of their objective. It's proportionate.
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I dont have any problem that Killers gain more BPs, it is a 1v4, after all. However, the increased BP-Gain combined with only having less than a third of different Add Ons in the Bloodwebs, compared to Survivor make it WAY easier for a Killer to get into a game with their preferred Add On Combination all the time.
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You still get to keep your item even if you deplete it at least. Killers always lose add-ons so survivors should too. If it really bothers you bring Ace in the Hole. If you want survivors to keep add-ons for an escape its only fair killers keep add-ons for a 3/4k. Honestly, survivors should never have kept add-ons to begin with.
Killers pretty much always need add-ons in every match unless they're top tier, meanwhile a survivor can go in with no item and still be fine. So while on average most killers get more BP, they also need to use more BP every game just to play.
If your problem is survivor BP gain then address that instead. Survivors getting more BP sounds fine imo. If your problem is the randomness of bloodwebs then we should be proposing a blood store or something for survivors and killers to just choose whatever they want, or at least a category of what they want (i.e. Offerings for both. flashlights, medkits, ect. for survivor and on killer side something like duration, cooldown, ect.) and pay BP for it, maybe at an increased price. Of course survivors would probably just fill up their inventories with keys, so they'd probably have to be removed or reworked.
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Again, that is a red herring argument. What are your preferred addons? I'm curious what they are, because apparently they are extremely rare.
Let me guess...toolbox charges? Key preservation? Styptic? lol
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Claiming I use red herring arguments and then stating I use Keys - classic.
Low Amp Filaments and that Med Kit Add On which gives 8 Charges and increases Healing Speed a little bit. Both yellow, but really hard to get.
Meanwhile - 5 Bags in my Trapper Bloodweb, three of them purple.
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I mean, I mostly dont use Add Ons anymore, at least not for Flashlights. Simply a yellow Flashlight, nothing else.
The only thing I REALLY want them to change is how White Ward works. It is stupid that a Survivor gets punished while using a White Ward and escaping.
This is like changing the Black Ward to "Killer will lose their Add Ons if they get a 4K".
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It isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.
1...if killers are getting wayyy more bps than you, that's on you and not the game.
2...A lot of killers are addon dependent. Good luck playing wraith with much success and using no addons. While survivors do not need an item much less an addon to do well.
3...survivors can find items in game. With the addition of a perk they can find items with addons. Killers can not do this.
4...This one can't be stressed enough, if you are that reliant on an addon to have a good game and have fun then something is terribly wrong. Not once have I played poorly and thought to myself "damn if I only had add on xx I would have done better."
5....If you are that bad at playing survivor that you get so little bps, you can always switch and play killer and rack up all those bps while not using any addons and then dump it into your survivor of choice.
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I just played a game to check, White Ward is working as intended. I had an item with addons, played White Ward, escaped, and I kept the item and its addons. There was a fix to it in the last release.
Is there something else going wrong with it?
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If it works that way, its good. I know from previous tests that Add Ons are lost when escaping while using a White Ward.
Will test the White Ward again this evening. :)
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I think it's just people not running white ward so never realized it changed. Can confirm as well it works fine for me.
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Come on almo, Tell us what was what was the point of the add on change?
No one really cares about white wards not working
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As explained in the dev stream (I know not everyone watches those things, and that's ok), it was not intended that players (both K and S) would have access to the best items and addons every match (or even as many matches as they do).
When I proposed that we allow empty items to stay, the economic designer recommended we normalize addons to disappear after the match even if you survive. This was discussed at length among the design team members, and we decided that we liked it.
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This is a weird argument to me.
Number 1 you know you dont ACTUALLY die right? Your character dying in tge game isnt anymore risk than a killers character not dying.
Number 2 Yes, killers go into a match knowing for sure theyre going to lose their add ons. And now so do you. See how thats equal?
Number 3 You say its unfair but none of the points you made really address why its unfair. Both sides lose their add ons, why wouldnt that be fair?
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I won't fight about this; you have the reasoning we used. Seeing how it's working in practice now and checking some data, we're happy with the outcome.
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Then why do killers get more blood points AND get the best add ons and moris almost every bloodweb? I can bring my favorite/strongest addons everygame as killer but not as survivor
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Survivors can go into a match with no add ons and still have an item. They can also go in with no items. They can do that and rarely would that item of made a difference. They can also find items in game.
Thats not true for killers. You go into a game with wraith and no add ons youre going to have a bad time.
And while killers may only use 3 or 4, they still have to buy all that other crap they dont need
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Because even if a killer completely annihilates your whole team, they still, and always have lost there add-ons. Why should killers lose there's then in that situation? Try thinking of BOTH sides, instead of buffing one, while ignoring the other side. That's the problem with this damn community anymore. Most just focus on there side, and could care less about the other. Like it or not, it takes BOTH sides to have a match. No one wants to play killer? No game then. And same vice versa. I'm out. ✌
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Alright to start off let me stop this whole us vs them mentality thing right here it was not done because of Killers so literally drop the whole catering to Killers bs. ( The second people start bringing up the US vs them mentality everyone's brain turns to mush and you can't have a discussion about actual balance without insulting each other)
They already gave a reasoning behind why they chose to do it. They wanted to make add-ons consistently a bonus for that trial not something that's meant to carry on through multiple trials.
So once they need items more permanent even if they lose charges they adjusted add-ons to match now do I agree that this is a good change. HELL NO
In fact I have a lot of problems with their consistency mentality but that's a different discussion for a different thread
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Did you seriously just use one of the very few killers with actually decent add-ons to compare to one of the most useless solo survivor items in the game? Most killer add-ons are quite bad, Spirit, Wraith, Myers, Plague and... No, that's pretty much it. Spirit, Wraith, Myers, Plague. Their add-ons are all okay and all have a measurable effect (well... Except Wraith. But his bad add-ons are few). Most of the cast just has the worst add-ons that clog up their bloodwebs like crazy, even Trapper, Pig and Demo (who have game-changing browns for some reason) quickly run out of good add-ons.
And that's without pointing out the fact that you can farm items, like I do. And items you farm and don't consume get to keep their add-ons. I am swimming in bloodamber/styptic/keys/medkits/extraheals/saboboxes/blacklock maps. I even have a few rainbow maps and Instaheals. BNP as well, but less of those because RNG is a thing.
Plus I usually get about 20k BP a match because I do more than just sit on gens. That's got nothing to do with being good, I'm boosted AF, but between item farming and playing Killer with BBQ/Survivor with WGLF I have more than enough BP for add-ons on both sides. And on both sides I waste half my BP on useless addons and offerings because only a small selection of killers have more than a small handful of useful addons. (Seriously, single-catagory BP offerings have got to go. You make a loss until you've filled up your meter by 75%.)
But maybe a lot of this is because people think that survivors need items and don't seem to consider the impact that 4 items can have on a match...
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So this includes iri head huntress?
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I'm surprised it's not being mentioned often that one of the biggest differences between survivors and killers is that survivors can acquire items and addons mid match. That easily makes up for the lower bloodpoint gains. Especially if I want to exaggerate how much an item and 2 addons are worth compared to how much a survivor makes in bloodpoints per game. And to compile on top of that, the very perk that lets you get 2 addons on top of the item also allows you to keep the addons if you escape the match.
I don't know if you were being serious, but I like the idea of different survivors being limited to different items and addons in the bloodweb. Let them pick up items randomly from chests in the map, but limited their bloodwebs to specific items and their addons would give some semblance of individuality.
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The problem is that killer add-ons =/= survivor add-ons.
For my p3 50 Spirit, I can play Mother Daughter Ring + Amulet every game for eternity. All I need to do is dump BP from each game back into Spirit and I get one or both of these add-ons AT LEAST ONCE per Bloodweb.
For my p3 50 Kate, I cannot use a purple flashlight with stacked batteries every game even if I dump the BP from each game back into Kate.
There are two reasons for this:
- Killers only have 20 add-ons that can appear in a Bloodweb, while survivors have 18 items and 55 add-ons (for a total of 73 objects). I basically have to go through 3-4 times as many Bloodwebs as survivor to have a chance to see the stuff I want.
- Killers earn BP much much faster than survivors. You can have a really great game as survivor, but it's difficult to earn more than 20k BP consistently. You can have a completely ######### game as killer and EASILY walk out with +25k. If you play Freddy or Legion, you should be earning 30k BP per game no problem. On top of that, killers have BBQ which is a LOT easier to get 4 stacks than WGLF, besides the fact that BBQ is one of the best aura perks in the game, while WGLF does nothing besides boost BP.
So while your logic makes sense in theory, in practice there are a lot of things working AGAINST survivors that give reason for them to keep their add-ons after the game. At the very least, they should keep them if they didn't fully use the item, I can understand losing them if the item has no charges, but if it does you should keep them.
Again, I could play MDR/Amulet on Spirit every game forever if I wanted to. That is an option. I have 30 of each and 20 Black Wards, so I don't even need to replenish them for 80 games. Umbra has 1200 Iri Heads on Huntress. You use the argument "you're not meant to use these every game" but that is EXACTLY what killers can do if they so wish. Your logic is flawed because of that.
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