What are survivors supposed to do?
Preemptive disclaimer: I'm not saying "playing survivor is too hard :((", I'm pointing out how unfair it is to play survivor in a lot of situations. The killer can have a lot of really dirty advantages but if all 4 survivors are experienced and coordinated they can still all escape.
First: This game isn't in alpha any more, Even if you can't viably give survivors another objective other than "just rush the gens lol", I'm sure you can afford to give the survivors another tool to use (Waking up against a freddy is a lot more well-rounded now), or at the very least have The Entity step in when the killer is stomping the survivors at 4 gens left, because hatch is all but useless now and there's no way a single survivor can escape alone through the gates during EGC.
Second: stop balancing the game entirely around stacked SWF groups. Unless survivors are coordinated to rush gens they have no chance against a half decent killer (depending on other factors). Devs are just now addressing the problem of deadzones- spots on the map which are completely empty of anything significant, and only after a long stream of survivor nerf updates (while pallets/ windows still have bad hitboxes)
Third: Some killers, like Spirit, Doc, Deathslinger, Oni, just to name a few, have powers without any counter play to them, which is just another reason survivors have no choice but to rush gens.
Examples: any spirit player with 20$ headphones can hear exactly where sounds of pain/ footsteps are and use it like a beacon to track the survivor; Deathslinger's shot can't be dodged, only missed, and unless there is a solid wall between killer and survivor there is no way to resist the pull since you bounce off every object like you're covered in grease, The Oni has a hillbilly chainsaw with 300% more turning and movement control that can insta-down multiple survivors around a corner or through a vault and gives the killer a boosted bloodhound into his default kit; and the new pyramid head killer has a mori built into it's power/ doesn't have to use hooks.
Comments
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What is it that survivors always say? Starts with "Git", ends with "Gud" perhaps?
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Every killer has a counter, thats the fun in being a survivor. Learning it, practicing it, fmthen making them look silly. 😊
Search the forums, im sure the counters to those killers are in here
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Doctors counterplay is actually calm spirit. Deathslinger is no different than hatchet from huntress. If you get hit by his wellaimed shot, and get dragged in, well that's between you and God (and deathslinger). That's like saying if a huntress hits you with a hatchet you should have a chance for the blunt end to hit you instead and do nothing because why not. The killer had to aim which means if they miss they have a long delay in between and a wasted attack.. The only thing you can do is LoS that's the counter..
The only ones I kinda see as a viable point are Oni and somewhat of pyramid head (although the mori is the least of the problem because its only usable under 2 conditions...which all mori should be like this tbh. 1 being last hook, 2 being the new status condition that has to be on them to do it.) Oni is way easier to get 1shots on just from use, and his tracking is extremely good. He's a better tracker than most killers and has as good of mobility as Billy, but honestly. If you know how to run a jungle gym on him, most Oni get screwed.. As for Pyramid head, the only thing that I find a little perplexing is his ability to ignore a lot of mechanics, but he's on PTB. PTB is made to test out and leave feedback...its also only day 1. If you see the problems, leave suggestions.
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Calm spirit is not a counter, giving up an entire perk slot just to counter one specific killer is not good at all. Huntress's hatchet has a larger hitbox for colliding with objects, not to mention the fact she has to go to a locker to reload and she has a functioning terror radius. Death slinger's clothing is highly camoflaged, his terror radius is already smaller than normal on top of the barely audible music they decided to use for it, and deathslinger can shoot through tiny holes- even the holes in the wall of the killer shack can be shot through. and deathsliger doesn't need to aim, he can just quickscope and fire a shot instantly, while huntress has a minimum windup time and THEN a charge time on top of that to throw the hatchet straight and fast.
Final point, not even breaking LoS on deathslinger is a viable counter because the seocnd your hand peaks out around a corner (of course, you can't control that, survivors are practically A-posing.
So, respectfully, you are very wrong.
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"Ok dbd forum, what's the counter to Freddy with Pop?"
"Uhhh just rush gens..?"
:^/
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it wouldn't be a dbd discussion without a "git gud" troll response to an actually legit problem
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Spread out and work on seperate gens, 4 survivors on 4 different gens, he cant pop them all. I play as freddy a lot, and i use pop, and yes I do lose.
Freddy is just an m1 killer when youre awake and his teleportation has a cool down. Hes absolutely beatable. I beat him in solos too as survivor.
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oh hey it's bubba
got any chilli?
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Of course he can be beaten, nobody here is saying he can't, but what I am saying is how are those 4 survivors all supposed to know he has pop until people have spent too long working on one gen and it's too late?
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No...thats like saying you bring DS to stop tunneling, but if the killer never tunneled, you wasted a perk slot...sooooo....I mean you can say this about a lot of perks because perks are a contengancy plan. Also calm spirit counters freddy puddles, counters killers who use spies from the shadows etc...against doctor you don't even scream making one of his benefits to his ability worthless because it doesn't show him where you are.. unless you're looking for a way to shutdown a killer completely, thats just ludicrous...there's variable usage to it other than just does 1 thing....and yes LoSing any killer with a projectile is the more efficient way to counter them. Their drawback is the fact they have to aim. If and when deathslinger misses, they have to draw their line back and reload before they can do it again. Every single time.. Same with huntress, if she misses she's stuck being an M1 killer till she breaks chase to get more hatchets. The point of them is to reward for skilled play. Huntress can throw hatchets through tiny slots in fence, holes, etc...watch Ralph play huntress and she will look like the cheapest character in game. And even if deathslinger can shoot through tiny holes you act like that's some easy feat. Try it for yourself if you haven't and show me the results. Its really not as easy as it sounds.
So tell me, respectively, how I'm very wrong. Because there's a counter for everything in this game. Some are easier than others. Its a matter of preparation and knowledge. No killer is so strong they have no counter. Nurse died a long time ago for that ship and its been sunk for a little bit lol
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Losing 25% on one gen isnt going to cost you the game. When you see its fred sneak off and do a gen solo. Just assume he has it.
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There's also the one that goes along the lines of "adapt"
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(Weird my comment vanished after I tried to edit it...)
so...thats like saying you bring DS to stop tunneling, but if the killer never tunneled, you wasted a perk slot...sooooo....I mean you can say this about a lot of perks because perks are a contengancy plan. Also calm spirit counters freddy puddles, counters killers who use spies from the shadows etc...against doctor you don't even scream making one of his benefits to his ability worthless because it doesn't show him where you are.. unless you're looking for a way to shutdown a killer completely, thats just ludicrous...there's variable usage to it other than just does 1 thing....and yes LoSing any killer with a projectile is the more efficient way to counter them. Their drawback is the fact they have to aim. If and when deathslinger misses, they have to draw their line back and reload before they can do it again. Every single time.. Same with huntress, if she misses she's stuck being an M1 killer till she breaks chase to get more hatchets. The point of them is to reward for skilled play. Huntress can throw hatchets through tiny slots in fence, holes, etc...watch Ralph play huntress and she will look like the cheapest character in game. And even if deathslinger can shoot through tiny holes you act like that's some easy feat. Try it for yourself if you haven't and show me the results. Its really not as easy as it sounds.
So tell me, respectively, how I'm very wrong. Because there's a counter for everything in this game. Some are easier than others. Its a matter of preparation and knowledge. No killer is so strong they have no counter. Nurse died a long time ago for that ship and its been sunk for a little bit lol
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First: I actually agree, survivors should have another objective
Second: You are wrong here. Multiplayer games should always be balanced around the highest level play. Any good game does this. If they don't then as players start to get good at the game, they tend to quit because of the imbalance of the game, this slowly over time leads to the game dying off rather than growing and staying strong.
Third: Spirit has no counter play? What is iron will? Or how about just walking so you don't make noise or show scratch marks. Doc has no counterplay? What is a locker? Deathslinger! has no counter play? Hes a terrible killer and has 110% movement speed, he is very easy to loop around, just throw pallets early so he can't hook you. Oni has no counterplay? His power only activates if you get injured and he has to charge it up.
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They are making one, new survivor perk can block a gen to prevent them from kicking it. Sounds like a solid counter to me.
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All killers have counterplay, it's just that some survivors can't be bothered learning them. They want to play every killer in the same way, and when they can't, it's a problem with the killer.
The game isn't balanced around swf's. Random groups can do just fine. The only difference is that you may get teamed up with potato survivors. It sucks, but they can't balance the game around that, either. Maybe when the new MMR system comes out, it will pair us with equally skilled survivors.
Sounds have always been a big part of the killers arsenal, not sure why you think that Spirit should be any different. It takes skill to listen and react properly, and it takes skill to counter her. Try using sound against her.
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it blocks the gen and stops anyone from repairing it for 30 seconds, and pop can last 60 seconds. killer just needs to patrol the gen a little bit and it entirely negates the perk lmao
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And during that time, what are survivors doing? Staring at the killer while he does this? Or are they repairing other gens? It becomes less time efficient for a killer to do that unless it is some key gen required for a 3gen.
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Balanced around High level? Yes. Balanced around a grouping of survivors with an advantage from a third party tool to give perfect communication? no. nothing in the game is balanced around that.
Also Stridor counters iron will (for some reason), and no perk in the game lightens footsteps/ rustling grass (which is what I personally use) spirit on swamp is ez pz because survivor footsteps sound like someone fisting a jar of mayo. Even walking is loud. getting into a locker isn'\t a counterplay because you have to way of knowing when he's about to shock, and if you did, you would have to be close enough to a locker to get in. you can't loop a deathslinger around 90% of the map tiles in the game because of low walls or open sight lines. the low movement speed is his only downside, but they fact that he pulls survivors towards him negates that. also "jsut don't get hit"? did you seriously go there? "just don't get found" "just don't get hooked" damn...
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"Evolve yourself so that the killer physically can't do X" "just ascend, brainlette"
lol
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Lol yup almost forgot
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pop isn't going to give you the advantage to start but if the killer is already winning, this perk is going to turn "a chance of coming back" into "get ######### nerd"
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From what I'm reading, he wants 100% counters to perks. His comment to me was basically if you brought calm spirit its a wasted perk slot (in regards to it being a counter to doctor). So basically, if I'm following the established logic, or at least how I perceive it at the moment, if you bring a ability that counters a killers perk 100% its the only way to be viable. If not its a waste if its not a guarantee, so if we go by that logic the killer would have a wasted perk slot because their perk would be useless....so the killer would have a wasted perk slot if it could be countered so easily. So its not fair to the killer then.
Its like how killers complain about DS having no official counter and people say "just don't tunnel and its a wasted perk" or NoEd and "just do bones" etc. There are so many variables.
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People are giving you solutions and youre coming back with arguments that are very situational. Yes, sometimes freds going to kick your gen with pop and yes sometimes youre going to scream from docs shock because a lockers to far away, but once you know the counters you can be more consistent in applying those counters. Not 100% of the time, but more than you are now.
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Aside from being tunnled and camped (sucks and take no skill) it's really not hard to get easy games but just practice and you will get better.
This game has a crazy skill gap some people are insane good at it and some people are not and this goes for both sides. I went from rank 8 to 4 in under three days just playing an hour or two a day.
I also play killer so that helps me understand how to play survivor mind you.
It feels way to easy to rank up as survivor. I do not use any meta perks except for spinechill and I hardly use that on most of my builds.
I've been playing for two years and I am not a loop master by any means so my chases depend on how skilled my opponent is.
Some people are just gonna play better than you and have a lot higher skill. Ever play a rank one killer who used no perks or add ons ?
All the killers you mention do have counter play and perks you can use to make their life difficult.
Not everyone is gonna be at the same skill level and most games I play I steam roll most killers.
I lose a lot of matches as well but again skill gaps are a thing.
Survivors are the power roll hands down and people who say or think otherwise are just not that great at the game and need to take a look at how they are playing and try to improve.
Not every killer plays the same way so you people really need to try to stop trying to force your play style on each killer and adapt to them they each play different and so should you.
Any how that is my 2 cents and not looking to argue or talk to walls as I am sure this post will fall on deaf ears ( not strictly speaking to the op)
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he can only pop one gen at a time. I use distortion and it is rare that he comes to my gen to use pop. You can also bait him by doing a gen 30% of the way and move to another gen as to confuse him and waste his pop. Distortion is really under rated btw.
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Camps a gen to use pop meanwhile you can get another gen done while he waits to use pop completely negating his negate
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That's what you took from that? I told you using 1 perk to counter 1 killer is a terrible idea and you thought that means "All perks should do nothing"?
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Just because you think it's a waste of a perk slot does not mean its is not his counter. You are just refusing to see the forest from the trees. Sounds like you are dead set on what perks you constantly use and refuse to change things up.
I run calm spirit and a lot of times no doctor. But when I do get a doctor while i have said perk I get out alive 90% of the time.....counter perk.
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a survivor has to be on the gen to use the perk. chase that survivor around the gen while you wait for the 30 second cooldown.
if you went to that gen specifically to apply pop, chances are the gen is nearly done or is a high value gen. Unless you're brainlessly running to the nearest gen to pop, there's probably a good reason to being there.
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He can't be at every gen at once and can only use pop once. Use distortion if pop is such an issue.
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No, you didn't even bother reading my other comment, you literally skipped it over and thats your issue. And just like someone said, people are giving you solutions, and you just bring up situational stuff, so what exactly are you looking for here 100%? Because this is just going to be talking in circles...
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Have you not noticed the direction the game has gone the past year? as survivor you're not expected to do anything other than die. The game only exists to give a power trip to sociopaths. If you want to stand a chance you need a few buddies and discord.
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it's just a bad perk, how hard is that to grasp? next you're going to tell me I have to run Slippery Meat in 100% of the games I go into because of the chance I'll be going against a trapper.
Does this mean the only perks I'm allowed to use are Calm spirit (for doc), Iron will (for spirit), Autodidact for any killer using an anti-heal build, and Wake Up in case the killer is using Remember me? you've gone so far down the "useful perks bad" rabbit hole that you came up the other side into "Use this build or you're bad"
Yes, it is his counter, it's just a bad perk. simple.
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We're not allowed to speculate then? ok buddy.. You'll remind us when we're allowed to be critical of the new killer, right? oh great entity?
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I take it you do not play much killer, no? If you did, you would know that you need quite the expensive setup to play sound sniper spirit (not some cheap headset, I hate that myth. It needs to burn. It is so, so wrong), you would know that Doc has plenty of counterplay, that Deathslinger has plenty of counterplay, and that Oni is one of the most loopable killers in the game. And you can learn how to play against specific killers by playing AS specific killers, that's what I did. Mostly, when I get caught, it's because I made a mistake or got stuck in a deadzone (often made by my teammates, thanks).
Game balance in general has nothing to do with swf. 4 good solo's can wreck an amazing killer. The power of SWF is the fact that it can buff bad players to acceptable levels. And that's without touching meta perks. Make good decisions, run bond or kindred, and you'll be fine. If you are good and the killer gets a 4k, either they were better or your teammates sucked. And if you keep dying, then maybe it's not your team. Either way you should be pipping like crazy if you set your mind to it.
Also, stop thinking of yourself as a solo survivor. There are 4 of you that are supposed to be working together. Of course you specifically are going to be in situation where there is nothing you can do, you are 1/4 of the team and the team is very, very rarely in a situation where nothing can be done. Killer has to deal with it far more often: just ask anyone who's ever had quick games. Is it disheartening to die because your team sucked? Yes, but that's a problem with matchmaking and the Devs know it (they just insist on throwing bad and good players together because "fun" is quick matchmaking, not matches where you don't lose in the lobby).
Generally speaking, the game is pretty balanced right now. Sure, every third match some arsehole sends me to haddonfield, but the Devs have already fixed half the broken maps in the game. Let's just hope that the House of Pain is having that pallet removed and the stair window boarded up. It is my least favourite part of the game, and it's on 6 maps. Fun.
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I would definitely agree that the skill ceiling for survivor is way higher than that of killers , killer is given so many tools to outplay survivors and survivors frankly aren’t , they’re given a few good perks that prolong chases and survivors can outplay killers but generally isn’t it the point of the game for killers to be given the win rlly ? (DEAD by Daylight) I don’t agree it should be that way but should it even be a debate that survivor is the x1000000 harder role cos it just kinda...is.
I love killer and it’s fun but the game just isn’t balanced , you have to sweat like hell (like planning out your perks to counter the killer {calm spirit>Doctor} which you are likely to not even go against that killer statistically) just to have a chance at survivor at red ranks.
Some of us want to play casually and not it be constantly a ranked match ; where’s the ‘quick play’ y’know ? I enjoy the game but just wanna vibe on it - I’m evidently good at the game and stayed in red ranks on both roles but survivor was much harder and I had to play a bit harder to have fun and do well in a match while the killer was having a breeze.
Its all just a lot of effort and I wish the devs would implement a casual game mode or even out the playing field more distinctively just a little so survivors don’t HAVE to SWF along with each one sweatin out their ears to have a half decent match.
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I mean...I agree with Spirit and Deathslinger, but Oni and Doctor have no counterplay? For doctor if you mindlessly run around a single medium-size or small pallet loop you're guaranteed to get hit, so run to another loop if he's spamming you with shock therapy, because hell lose enough distance to where you will probably make it to another pallet or jungle gym. If you don't then you got screwed by the map I guess. Oni's power is pretty oppressive and there's not much you can do against it at certain loops, but it kind of sucks at L-T walls and really short loops. He's forced to chase you around these tiles normally which can waste a lot of his power. It does only last for 45 seconds without add-ons so wasting as much time as possible, or simply being immersed if he hasn't found you is a good thing to be doing as survivor.
I'm sorry for singling out this point but it's the one I can sort of maybe help you with.
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Stop with this old meme from 2018, Not funny, overused and makes 0 sense.
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I don't think you know what "skill ceiling" means.
OP, to answer your question, you're supposed to learn and adapt your tactics to the killer you're facing. Perks can help against specific killers, like Calm Spirit for the Doctor, as was already mentioned. Don't think of it as "wasting a perk slot to counter one killer", it's more like "investing one perk slot to counter something you have trouble countering on your own". There are mechanical counters to all the killers, but perks help.
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The struggle is real.
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I agree with the first point with counterplay, I agree with the second point about killer skill, but not with the second paragraph. Oni is perfectly fine.
Of course I am speaking from console, so take that how you will.
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I play both, higher survivor rank than killer rank.
As a survivor you have a team, self heals, three lives without a mori, two lives even with the best mori, flashlights, medkits, tool boxes, pallets, perks, tall grass/darkness sometimes to the extreme like the Oni place, 360 ankle breaking, vaulting, looping, struggle, hit-sprint, killer swing recovery, the hatch and body blocking.
Pyramid is like the first counter to some of this (flashlights, body blocking) in the roster. And even with those admittedly powerful counters that he brings, you can still install a new part and have a generator done before he makes it halfway across some of these maps. Even a level one survivor has most of what I listed, the exception of self-heal and items. Even a level one survivor goes into the game with everything but that.
Sometimes I get frustrated as a survivor as well. Sometimes I get frustrated playing killer. But the survivor experience definitely does not need a buff. If anything I could think of a couple different killers that could use a hand.
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To give my 2 cents into the mix. What I gather from this thread is that op sounds like wants to be able to play against any given killer and have fun in a 1 on 1. Problem here is there are always 3 others at at minimum potatoe-level player with you against the killer.
So if 1 survivor is strong enough to have fun (the definition of this may range from "I can get chased as long I seem fun" to "when I am a skilled survivor, the killer should not be able to down me at all") then killer goes to only be a playable ai for the survivors to enjoy.
That's what this thread atleast "sounds" like but hey so do most "the other side is too strong for me to have fun" arguments regardless of which way.
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One perk slot to counter a killer power? Where I gotta sign? You know killer power should never be countered?
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I’ve escaped through the gate plenty of times during EGC? It isn’t an impossible thing to do. Survivors have it easy. The fact I was able to get 30K as a survivor without any perks is very telling. Survivor has never been and probably never will be difficult. The only thing I struggle with is having useless teammates who don’t understand the basic game mechanics.
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As somebody else said, people are giving you counters and you're refusing to listen.
Even if you don't want to use a perk to counter certain killers, there's still counterplay to most of the killers you mentioned.
Against Doctor, it's all about trying to read where he's going to go and which way he's going to shock, and either looping around that or running away from the loop. Some loops he can't even really play with his shock and it's more a waste of time than anything.
Deathslinger, you have to fake him out when you think he's going to shoot. A lot of people I see play against him will either just run predictable toward some sort of pallet or window, and then just get shot, or just try to juke way too much and give him a bunch of distance for a free melee. You just have to read each Deathslinger and try to understand their playstyle and when they like to shoot. Often times, all it takes to get him to miss a few shots is to run to a window or pallet and right when you'd be about to vault/run through it, just run to either side and more than likely he'll shoot directly down the pallet or window. It's not like there's no counterplay to him. It's just like the Doctor, you have to mind game him better than he mindgames you.
Oni... Do I really even have to explain? He's literally a pure M1 killer with nothing else until people start giving him blood. He literally cannot activate his power if he can't injure somebody.
I'm not saying every killer is easy to play against, but I just really have a problem with the way you describe these killers as having "no counterplay" when that's simply false.
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untill they fix the matchmaking the game is vastly killer sided, whoever says the opposite at this point is just stupid. untill they fix matchmaking there is no point at all in talking about balance
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Not every survivor speaks like that. Only the ones that don’t want to add anything constructive to the discussion.
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Everything about this post confuses me. I play in reds for both sides too and my experience is vastly different. And how did you come to the conclusion that the skill ceiling on survivor is higher? You just play nascar simulator and run in circles most of the time
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