The Executioner's Cages of Atonement, And What He COULD Do To Everyone's Perks
The basis of this post is to imagine matches in which The Executioner always either leaves Survivors in the Dying Health State or sends Dying Survivors to a Cage of Atonement, meaning they'll NEVER pick them up from the Dying Health State & NEVER hook them on a Hook.
Then, from that basis, i went to find out what Perks change, become bad/weak, become useless or even become detrimental if that's the gameplay the Killer decides to use.
Here are the results i found...
Survivor
Aftercare - Can't obtain Auras by unhooking or being unhooked, but the Auras you gained on Aftercare in other ways cannot be removed.
Babysitter - Useless.
Boil Over - Useless.
Borrowed Time - Useless.
Breakdown - Useless.
Breakout - Useless.
Camaraderie - Useless.
Decisive Strike - Useless.
Deliverance - Useless.
Flip-Flop - Useless.
Kindred - Useless.
Leader - Other Survivors cannot unhook faster, as there won't be any hooked Survivors.
No One Left Behind - You cannot unhook faster, as there won't be any hooked Survivors.
Off The Record - Useless.
Resilience - You cannot unhook faster, as there won't be any hooked Survivors.
Saboteur - Becomes only good for getting Bloodpoints & making noise, since they won't hook them & there also won't be any Auras since they won't pick them up.
Second Wind - Useless.
Slippery Meat - No more extra self-unhook attempts.
Spine Chill - You cannot unhook faster, as there won't be any hooked Survivors.
Up The Ante - Useless.
We'll Make It - Useless.
We're Gonna Live Forever - Can't gain Tokens by doing Safe Hook Rescues anymore.
Killer
Agitation - Useless.
Barbecue & Chili - Useless.
Blood Echo - Useless.
Blood Warden - Can't block the Exits anymore, can still reveal Auras.
Dead Man's Switch - Useless.
Dying Light - Useless, and is actually detrimental as you still give the Obsession a 33% bonus.
Fire Up - The Picking-up & Dropping speeds are useless.
Furtive Chase - Useless.
Hangman's Trick - You can still gain notifications, but no more Auras.
Hex: Devour Hope - Useless, unless you consider them cleansing the Hex Totem for a few seconds a use.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby - Will only apply the extra regression.
Iron Grasp - Useless.
Mad Grit - Useless.
Make Your Choice - Useless.
Monstrous Shrine - Useless.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Useless.
I hope you can make some use out of this information. 😋
If i missed any or made mistakes, let me know.
Discussion patch 1.0.1
- Removed Thanatophobia
- Changed Hex: Huntress Lullaby
Discussion patch 1.0.2
- Added Up The Ante
- Added Monstrous Shrine
Comments
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Thanks Boss ^^
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Ok.
No seriously, like with how frequently he can even acess the cage the loss for getting caged isn't even that bad. Honestly I would sooner say every killer should have a mechanic like this to make the game more fair.
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Idk about how beneficial it would be for you, just informing y'all. 😊
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Sucks that there's another killer that can make half of my perks useless. At least he's pretty cool.
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His power can kill some builds, but I don't think it's so bad. Unlike, for example, Miss "**** Your Healing" Plague, Survivors can at least attempt to avoid his power if they want to keep access to certain perks.
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True, plus it's hard to camp and tunnel survivors in cages. WMI is near unusable at this point, and the devs will never make changes to these perks to compensate for the existence of these counters. It kind of pushes survivors into a tighter meta perk pool with few good perks coming in to alleviate the issue. At least killers can't whine about DS any more.
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Cages are basically slugging without its downsides. Definitely beneficial.
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At least PH Killers* can't whine about DS anymore.
The rest of the cast still has to deal with it.
Does anyone know if caged survivors count as hooked or injured for the sake of Thanatophobia?
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do remember this is on ptb and due to feedback i'd probably think they will make cages the same as being hooked so most perks aren't useless. Could be wrong but it wouldn't make sense for you to be basically unable to act whilst in a cage when you have perks to save yourself from the hook or something of the sort.
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Not my point, but yes.
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DS just got more incentive against bringing it. A major complaint killers had was seeing DS too often. What do we get when we add these facts together?
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I believe that's the point though. As a survivor your job is to evade the trenches while running from him. He gets rewarded with an easy and quick hook but still loses out as much as a survivor does if both are running hook perks.
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Oh sry
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That 1 in 20 killers won't have to deal with DS? 19/20 seems to be more than a fair amount to me man.
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It's definitely intended and people seem to like it so I think it stays as is.
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I'm talking about a shift in the meta lol
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Not really.You are always risking that a survivor is gonna be near the caged survivor which leads to an easy save that ultimately hurts your map pressure quite a bit.
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Without counting i'm going to guess you listed about 35 total perks there....out of approximately 140? I think it's a good thing to have a killer that makes people switch it up. As killer i'm tired of going against the same DS, DH, Unbreakable, blah, blah. As survivor i'm tired of going against the same pop, bbq, thana, blah blah
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Thanataphobia actually does count caged Survivors towards the buff, probably because they are still injured while in the cage or something.
Huntresses Lullaby still gives a missed skillcheck regression penalty even with no stacks. So it isn't useless although it does lose a ton of value.
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I think some of them should work with the power, but not all. Kindred should. BBQ should get a stack from it at least.
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It's fine. ✋
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What if B&C's requirement would change from hooking them to making them enter the first phase?
Then that should apply on Cages too, right?
Or am i thinking wrong here?
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Thank you for the information!
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I dont think you are supposed to use the cages 100% of the times.
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That's not the point here.
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To the killer perks: Remember when Legion was slow and didn't work with Exposed? Every near meta perk was gone for Legion. Still playable. Ever run Insidious or Spirit Fury on Huntress? Or Bamboozle on Nurse? The good thing is, killers can pick the perks that match their power, in Bloodweb and in Loadout.
To the survivor perks: Useless is desperately exaggerated. Try to count how many hooks and how many cages happen during a game. Count more than once pls. And then maybe count on live how many unhooks you do where the unhooked guy is not tunneled or the killer not even near, to validate the effect of BT. Just to compare.
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You still get a hook state on them if that happens, and it cost you almost no momentum.
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Certainly none of this is exaggerated.
This post is based on getting an Executioner that does not carry & hook.
You're trying to apply this into the actual game, while i wrote in the first sentence that this is me imagining this situation.
It doesn't matter if there's only 0.1% of Executioners who do this, the point is that these Perks are changed, worse or useless once you face that 0.1%.
Whether you want to take that information into consideration or not is up to you, but the information is correct so far.
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Alright, fair point. But taking into account that a killer has to work pretty hard to be able to do 12 cage captures, then I would say it is a fair trade. IF a killer manages to get 12 cage captures, Id say gg wp, regarding the current amount of average cages happening in a game, when killers don't hardcore try to get tormented active on every survivor
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And dont forget that you can crouch to avoid the effect. The killer needs to get you tormented during chase
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Thanks for understanding.
And yeah, i know it can be quite the challenge.
But hey, some people LOVE playing the "weaker" Killers, or challenges like Hexes only.
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Which of these perks are actually used, though? Not as part of niche builds or people who have very few perks, but used regularly and often? BT, DS, BBQ, and DH?
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imo is just fine he needs to work to get u in a cage.
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I don't know, but i personally don't view that as a good thing, but a bad one.
Though the situation is certainly rare, if it does happen, quite a few lesser-used Perks are hit.
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I really like how Aftercare changes in both a good and bad way though.
Unless Cages DO actually remove the Auras, but if they don't, it's pretty neat.
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PGTW?
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I guess that's what I'm not understanding about your argument. If you believe PH will turn the meta around just because he cancels DS... I doubt it. Not everyone is going to run him and not everyone is going to drop perks like DS just because he exists.
If anything he's just another Plague. She completely turns off some perks but it's not really a problem and certainly not meta-defining. Once people learn how to counter him I'm positive he'll have to rely more on hooking than we are seeing now.
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Well if you have something like a 3 Gen then you would lose momentum.
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I'm sure DS will remain meta even after this chapter will be released.
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I don't see any healing perks in S tier. I guess we'll see who was right when PH goes live.
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Also a tier list I want to attach to your survivor list, that relativates the effect of the hook denials.
A = perk seen in every game
B = Not every game, but often enough and at least a decent chance that multiple survivors have it in one match
C = Definitely not common, but a perk you see once in a while
D = Either meme perk, only working in specific builds or just weak / having stronger alternatives, therefore very rare
E = Such a weak perk that it even doesn't give you any value most of the time when going against any other killer, not even ultra rare, more like never seen in real life
Now lets see how I would classify your listed perks:
A = Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike,
B = Aftercare, Deliverance, Kindred, Spine Chill
C = Breakdown, Leader, Resilience, We'll Make It, We're Gonna Live Forever
D = Babysitter, Boil Over, Breakout, Flip-Flop, No One Left Behind, Saboteur, Second Wind
E = Camaraderie, Off The Record, Slippery Meat
So we talk about 6 perks that get affected regularly when going against PH. Regarding the A tier perks, I would even say this is not a problem as they get teleported away from the killer, so you don't need them anyway. Especially BT, as the killer would have to take time to get the tunneled survivor tormented anyway, making Endurance expire most likely. Then there are just 3 B tier perks left.
So with all that taking into account, I would say we don't have a problem here. I think Franklins in a 4 medkit group is a bigger threat thatn this ;)
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You mean like by the survivor coming off pressure too fast? Fair point.
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As if it wasn't already falling off...we'll see
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I'm glad there's a killer that has built in counter to hook perks. They're becoming oppressive and every new perk like it that releases just fuels the toxic SWF groups even more.
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Babysitter and Dead Man's Switch fuel SWF groups? I don't think hook based perks are inherently unhealthy, every type of perk has that capacity. Wake up is a good example.
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The thing is he doesn't really counter killer perks. Obviously the person playing the killer knows what is dog crap on him. So they're not going to pick Agitation or Make your Choice and whatever. There's going to become a very standard build on the killer like everyone else has. So in the end the killer is just countering a ton of survivor perks.
I don't know if I like this at all. I'll try not to complain about it until nerfs come and he's released. But I don't like the idea at all. If we're going to introduce a killer like this into the game isn't it about time we get to see the killer we're facing? You can end up in a lobby with all of your perks countered just because of the killer they chose. It's a bit much.
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You're right. I'm not saying every hook perk is bad. That was a hyperbole. I just meant that with DS and BT, hook perks are something we can take a break from and let's get new perks that are useful and hopefully can't be abused by SWF. I know that's asking for too much but I'm gonna ask for it anyways lol.
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I still see DS frequently. Matches without an obsession are very rare in my experience.
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I hope you realize if a perk "can't be abused by SWF" it likely won't shift the meta. If you are implying that the current meta is entirely "abusable".
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Tl:dr.
Does saving someone from a cage count towards stuff like devour hope or myc?
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