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Punish hook suicides

Rydog
Rydog Member Posts: 3,275

I don't understand why Behaviour doesn't punish hook suicides the same as disconnects. It makes no sense and legitimizes griefing, because it amounts to nothing more than a penalty-free DC.

Just had a game where two players -- red rank players! -- suicided on-hook inside of the first two minutes. Then, somehow, I'm the one who gets de-pipped for it. It's unbelievable how maliciously negligent Behaviour is with certain aspects of this game, and this is most certainly one of them.

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Comments

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568

    I often report them for unsportsmanlike conduct because they refuse playing and let team down as much as being afk. I don't know if it's make any effect.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568

    I agree about score for killer and maybe even survivors. But somehow it should be count as suicide on hook. What if killer just facecamp his first survivor to force him die on first hook? That's rare and ineffective tactic but it should not be award killer. I want to make it clear: Suicide on first hook is when survivor make escape attempt and refuse to struggle. If survivor struggle all of his second stage - that not should be count as suicide, even if he died on first hook. If survivor missed spacebar by mistake - it still should be count as suicide, because it's really rare moments.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568

    Why do you even play if you don't want to play? It's an opposite of altruism - suicide to f**k up your team.

  • Chrisko
    Chrisko Member Posts: 288

    I would suggest a rework. Replace them with a bot as soon as they stop struggling. The bot will continue with the game. This gives killers a survivor to hook and preserves the 4v1 aspect for a bit

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,542
    edited May 2020

    Ph already does by not allowing you to hook suicide. Just make hooks like his cages where you do nothing at first and then have to complete skillchecks but if you fail you only die alittle quicker so you still cant hook suicide.

  • I_Teabag_Gate
    I_Teabag_Gate Member Posts: 126

    Yes you can.


    Don't start a game if you won't finish it.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    Stop with the “they suicided or DC because you play an unfun style.”

    A pretty common occurrence is someone with OoO clicky clicks me into a chase and they aren’t nearly as good at looping as they think so they go down in like ten seconds. They die on first hook most likely so they can try again to get a “bad killer,” that they can loop for highlights.

  • I_Teabag_Gate
    I_Teabag_Gate Member Posts: 126

    What a crap analogy.

    You screw over everyone else in the game by killing yourself on hook. It should be punishable.

  • johnmwarner
    johnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    If you didn’t wanna be in the game why did you queue up? Oh you mean you only want to be in the game against bad killers like Clown, without Ruin, and he can’t spot you first, or down you... because those all spoil the game.

    Alos how do killers get out a game in the first minute without DC?

  • Veen
    Veen Member Posts: 706

    Killer can't either die or be screwed over by their teammates.

  • HelloThere
    HelloThere Member Posts: 59
    edited May 2020

    I don't think it's a good idea since no one knows was that hook suicide or did the survivor fail to struggle (newbie, keyboard/ controler fail or distracted) . Or what about the hook suicides to give the hatch the last survivor.

    Also the DC paneltise are not as good as they sounded at first. Of course players who abuse the Funktion should be punished but as it shows there is no way to leave game if it isn't fun anymore, as an example: all four survivors lay on the ground being sluged by the killer. You decide to die on the ground so you DC. Or you are glitched into something and you can't leave. What do you do DC. There is a bee in the room I'm playing. What do i do DC and leave the room immediately.

    There is a reason why people kill them self on hooks. Sometimes they are good and sometimes they are bad.

  • ayaya
    ayaya Member Posts: 163

    First introduce ping and fps kick

  • HelloThere
    HelloThere Member Posts: 59

    Do you think the games fun when you wait to bleed out on the ground with your team mates, while the killer just stares at you. Still worst game i remember so far. I didn't dc but wished i did.

  • Bovinity
    Bovinity Member Posts: 1,522
    edited May 2020

    But why?

    Screw yourself out of the points and get a longer DC penalty than the bleed out timer.

    I know people love to think that they're really upsetting killers with this stuff, but generally they're just laughing about it. (I had two DC's in a game last night - one of them while I was taking them to the hatch because I felt merciful after the first DC! What a goofball. Post game chat they told me that I deserve every DC I ever get because I had the nerve to play Legion. I was laughing the entire time.)

    Also, people really need to lose this "fun" argument. You queued for a game. You can lose that game. People don't get to act like a baby just because "losing isn't fun!"

  • I_Teabag_Gate
    I_Teabag_Gate Member Posts: 126

    This whole debate is about how it SHOULD be punishable. There was a time a killer could bodyblock a survivor for hours without being banned,


    There was no name calling. Don't be a ######### doesn't mean the person is a #########. I cut my grass today but I'm not a gardener.


    It's not selfish to expect people to comply with social norms of not being selfish. You don't see people in basketball games deciding they don't want to play anymore and screwing everyone else over.


    I actually do DC/Hook suicide. I won't play an Iri Head Huntress, I won't play the Game or Lerys if the killer puts the Offering on. I acknowledge I'm being a ######### about it and maybe my teammates would have liked to play. I accept the devs should punish this behaviour.

  • Tiersis
    Tiersis Member Posts: 259

    I mean, there is really no argument for me. I almost never DC unless some real world influence is preventing me from staying in game, which usually boils down to work, wife, or kids.

    But I have no obligation to stay. Or play the game the way someone else would prefer I play.

    I got chewed out by another survivor earlier because I didn't hook rush into the basement while Bubba was insidious camping, called me all kinds of names. I just saw him sitting there and did gens and got out.

    But like I said, its not an argument, its a statement of fact. If I'm not having fun, I'm out. That doesn't mean losing, it means not having fun. Sometimes thats my teammates, sometimes its a killer I can't stand, sometimes its just gotten boring.

    It doesn't matter why. If I want to leave, I'll leave.

  • Bovinity
    Bovinity Member Posts: 1,522

    Of course you don't go into the basement there, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    But the attitude of, "Well, I don't like this, I'll DC!" is just being rude and inconsiderate of everyone else, especially your team.

    Yes, it's your time, your life, you can do as you please. But it still makes you rude and inconsiderate in that moment.

  • HelloThere
    HelloThere Member Posts: 59

    That was before paneltise. It's seriously about the bleeding out instead of hooked part. I don't mind being killed. What i do mind is being slugged with my whole team near me, that is slugged to. Do you know how boring it is to watch yourself bleed out.

    Bring me to a hook fine! Don't mind the hook. The thing is do you want to play against someone that plays just to make you mad. Like a team of toxic pro survivors that shove you their flash light the whole time in your face. Or a killer just toying with you, planing to make your game frustrating.

    I don't care about points. Play so irregulari that i don't rank up. Also i meant it like they want to but can't bc of paneltise.

    Of course like i said in the first comment people who abuse the funktion need to be punished. It's a game and a game is about fun. Losing can be fun too if you play against a killer in you skill level and you had a good chase.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    The problem is that that doesn't do anything for the remaining Survivors who are now screwed because someone decided to ragequit.

  • NinjaDette1
    NinjaDette1 Member Posts: 1,289

    So you want people to be punished for killing them self on a hook?.I myself as a killer and survivor main I don’t think punishing people just for Doing that is needed.Sure teammates will complain that you did that but survivors don’t have control over the hooks.Yes some are lucky and break free from them and others aren’t as lucky.I honestly think the devs will dismiss such reports.

  • Tiersis
    Tiersis Member Posts: 259

    Here's one, what if I actually want to try and escape the hook myself. Base 4% chance everyone.

    You can't punish people for actually using a built in chance to escape the hook.

  • I_Teabag_Gate
    I_Teabag_Gate Member Posts: 126

    and then failing to tap space repeatedly?

    I've seen it suggested before that survivors should be able to 'ping' a hooked survivor to say they are coming to get them. This removes the Escape chance unless they have Deliverance.

  • Tiersis
    Tiersis Member Posts: 259

    That would be easily abused though.

    The way its currently built, its fine to not wanna stay on the hook. I suppose if you didn't wanna risk randoms killing themselves on the hook you could go in as a 4man SWF. Then you'd know your team. probably a much better chance they will play the way you want them to play in that situation.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976
    edited May 2020

    irihead huntress with ebony mori and slug perks tends to be defined as a toxic build, forever freddy is quite a toxic build. However, toxicity is defined as toxic behaviour. A toxic build is essentially a build that easily allows toxic behaviour. But just because a build enables toxicity incredibly easy doesnt mean the killer is toxic.


    Essentially, facing forever freddy is boring and the people running it are extremely likely to play very toxic when they dont have to do anything themselves. So suiciding when you notice a forever freddy build is completely fine.

  • emptyCups
    emptyCups Member Posts: 1,262

    this is so strange that there's this many threads about this...

    I really never see hooksides but like... how can you tell? What if they just messed up ?


    Idk

    As killer just get your kills and move on

    As Survior either play with your friends or shut up randoms are randoms in any game and being apart of a ranked online only game... i can't possibly see why you can't be bothered to make a team of gamers in real life.

  • Bovinity
    Bovinity Member Posts: 1,522

    Any build where you kill survivors.

    Honestly, there are a ton of things survivors can do that are also frustrating, but you don't see me over here advocating disconnecting because, "But I ain't havin no fun!! Dead Hard is toxic!!!"

  • n0ntoxic
    n0ntoxic Member Posts: 1

    Personally, I don't mind. And I will do it when nobody starts moving to save and I go into struggle, I just don't want to play with others who don't try to unhook.

  • ShrimpTwiggs
    ShrimpTwiggs Member Posts: 1,181

    Just make struggle automatic. Most people don't like the button-mashing anyway and it would stop hook suicides.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,261

    If I'm on first hook and my team isn't doing anything - no gen, not making their way towards me, nothing - I'm going to attempt escape. If they still make no move I'm going to let go, I'm not wearing away my buttons to not be saved.

    If they are working gens I give them until I hit struggle to make a move. If a gen isn't completed and they still are not making a move I'm not wasting time struggling. If they finish a gen and move onto next instead of coming to get me I'm 100% not wasting anymore time in that match.

    If I'm being camped I'll stay since it's not my teams fault I can't be saved. However I understand why someone would kill self on hook since they're getting no points and losing a pip anyway.

    If I'm farmed off my first hook by someone not using BT and they go to do it again I'm letting go.

    Sometimes I hit struggle on first hook but my button mashing doesn't work and I die before timer runs out.


    Aside from the camping killer the team not doing anything to help the hooked teammate is the problem, not the teammate killing self on hook. This is why you can't add a penalty to hook suicides. Sure someone may do it because map/killer but more often it's the team isn't doing anything to help. Maybe if they made changes to someone on hook getting points like % gen repair it'd make more stick around to be saved. If being camped give them distraction points too to black pip.

  • a_good_player
    a_good_player Member Posts: 194

    until they fix the game its good there is an alternative way of dcing. im not going to play vs a good spirit, a mirror myers, an iri head huntress and so on. also i find ridicoulus the killer doesnt have a surrender option. when i play killer and the match is basically bullying simulator im not going to play. i will either go afk in a corner or if i have an instadown killer i will facecamp a survivor

  • I_Teabag_Gate
    I_Teabag_Gate Member Posts: 126

    How would it be abused? The 1 in 50 games where survivors ping but leave you to die when you might have been able to escape otherwise.

  • Rydog
    Rydog Member Posts: 3,275

    "You can't force players, killer or survivor, to stay in a game they don't want to be in!"

    "I suicide against iri head Huntress!" You can't force people to play and have fun!"

    "As long as you get useless teammates in solo queue, suiciding on hook is totally fine!"

    "They're using a toxic build!"


    To everyone countering with these kinds of arguments: You're exactly the problem. You know, going into a match, that game mechanics exist which you don't like. You accept this by deciding to play the game. If you don't accept it, why are you continuing to play.

    Don't suicide on the hook. If you have decided to play Dead by Daylight, then PLAY DEAD BY DAYLIGHT.

    I wish I could change that to like 72 point font.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568

    @Rydog Exactly! Don't play if you don't want to! I consider suicide as BM. You can do that, but it makes you look pathetic in killer's and teammates' eyes. If you suicide on first hook it means you the one who make you dead. And it means you are the only reason that you lose. Giving up before fight. And it's not killer's fault if you don't want to play! You don't like the way killer plays, you don't like the way teammates play, you don't like the map, you don't like killer's ability, it's your problem!

    Yes, everyone had ######### game sometimes but it is not the reason for suicide! When you don't give up, and escape from hopeless situations - it's much more satisfying than if you just escape from mediocre killer. Those who suicide on first hook will never get this feeling.

  • Huff
    Huff Member Posts: 1,480

    DbD isn't basketball. This isn't the only time I've seen the comparison, and it just isn't.

    And I don't exactly think everybody should be going around DCing, but you were wrong when you said "Yes you can," in reply to "You can't force players, killer or survivor, to stay in a game they don't want to be in." Sure, punish their account, but if somebody wants to disconnect, they will.

    And no it's not "being a #########" just because somebody doesn't want to play a round of DbD. Again, the basketball comparison makes no sense and this example is where that comes into play: where basketball is a team versus team game, Dead by Daylight isn't. You have a 1v4, where one side has only the single player/killer, and the other side isn't even a team. Yea, they aren't there to kill each other, but the survivors' objective is to escape. Even if they can't save the others. Again, I'm not saying that everybody should just be going around being selfish and disconnecting, but you can't act like DbD is a hardcore team game like basketball because it's not. If somebody wants to let themselves die on hook because they have 3 team mates that aren't helpful at all and are just crouching in a corner or something, they're not "being a #########" just because they want to move onto the next round. Yeah, the group of survivors might have less of a chance of winning, but 1. that's clearly not something they're interested in if they're just crouching in the corner and 2. even if everybody is killing themselves off 1st hook, the last person can still get the hatch, so in a weird way it at least helps one person survive.

    I get why you're saying what you're saying, but no you can't keep people in a game they don't want to be in. And DbD isn't the same thing as a team sport such as basketball. You're entitled to your opinion though I guess.

  • Huff
    Huff Member Posts: 1,480

    Just to add onto my last comment/piggyback off this one: While I don't think that just any form of ending the game more quickly is "being a #########," I can definitely say that something like that does apply to the whole "I don't like going against this so I'll quit" mentality. That truly is being a selfish #########.