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Freddy needs a "nerf" to fix how boring he is
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He's only annoying because you can't hold M1 all game. And if he's hitting you while you're awake, you're doing something wrong, he has literally no power if you aren't asleep, so you can loop forever
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Freddy is not boring and he doesnt need another nerf,and his lunge is fine as it is,he had long arms in the first movie,I still miss his old power,where he was invisible and had to make you fall asleep
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If he's boring then the solution is a sidegrade, not a nerf.
Otherwise what you are left with is at best fun but underpowered.
An example of a possible sidegrade would be removing the oblivious portion from being asleep, since that negatively impacts both Killer and Survivor builds.
Any buff implemented as the same time as a nerf of equal magnitude could overall be taken as a sidegrade as well.
For example: gen teleport starts out off cooldown, but snares take slightly longer to place.
Or
Snares are faster to place and have a larger slowdown, but you move a bit slower while placing them.
Or
Fake pallets are available at the same time as snares and teleporting is faster with a lower cooldown. But he becomes the first 4.5 MS Killer (112.5%).
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Devs needs to push some of the things in Freddy's base kit to his add-ons and rework some of them to be actually useful.
For example, remove Oblivious in Dream World from his base kit and have that be an effect of Pill Bottle. And remove the increasing Snap Clap wake up penalty and put it on Cat Block. Stuff like that. He doesn't need all this stuff in his base kit. Gen teleport, snares, and the semi-stealth he gets when you are awake is plenty for him to be a viable killer at high ranks. Plus if things were moved to his add-ons then the affects could potentially be even stronger than his base kit, which increase build variation and overall makes him more fun for both sides.
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And what freddy is always the same? Using ultra slow freddy?
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I just find him boring because every Freddy I go against is the exact same. Others in this thread have their own grievances, but why I made this post to begin with is because every Freddy is just using an ultra gen protection build majority of the time. As a solo survivor, my win rate against him is abysmal because other solo survivors don't know how to just do an objective. He is balanced around handling SWF groups, which is fine & necessary most of the time. But in my case as a solo survivor, he becomes aggressively strong because solo survivors can't coordinate like SWF
Yes. At least for me. Freddy is one of the most common killers I go up against & it is always relatively the same build. Pop & BBQ are an almost guarentee. Generally they have at least 1 slow down addon (I do see double slow down addons quite a bit too btw). The other 2 perks of theirs usually also aid in slowing down gens (or Sloppy Butcher to slow down healing, which in itself results in slower gen progress). And being that I play solo survivor, it makes playing against him much worse when I can hardly rely on my teammates.
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Typical Freddy main. Ya, let me run all the way to the other side of the map so that I can get back on my objective on the opposite side and be asleep before I finish the gen and/or Freddy finds me again.
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I mean, BBQ is a good perk on Freddy. I just use brutal strength, pop, bbq and save the best for last. With nancy's master piece and the jump rope. But you're complaining about a killer being able to use a lot of pressure in the game. If you can't deal with Freddy as a solo player then start playing with friends. I went against a good SWF once as Freddy and two escaped because they were confident in their skills enough to not worry about healing early on in the game. You can't expect easy wins against all the killers
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That's a FAT No. No killer under any circumstance should require 4man SWF to having a chance at winning. Freddy fits this criteria and needs his teleports greatly nerfed because certain perks makes him OVERPOWERED!
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If you think Freddy is boring now. You should have seen him when he first released. Being unable to hit survivors until 7 seconds after you tagged them with your power. F tier was named after him. He was the worst killer in DBD until Legion came along.
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Certain perks makes him OP. Doc Carter has some advice for you guys who think Freddy is OP. He was good at the beginning, then he got nerfed and nobody played him as much. And then they decided to give him a rework which was a buff. Then they nerfed the slow down add ons (which was needed.) But the funnier thing here is Freddy doesn't need a SWF to win against. If the solo players know how not to waste early game time healing and would work on gens instead then he's not going to do as well. Not only that but if people would use the wake up mechanic more, then he's just an M1 killer. His power recovers faster with each person in the dream state. Do you know how slow it takes when people keep waking up? He's a solid killer and anyone who plays a killer well enough then they're most likely not going to survive with a SWF.
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Demo main actually, and that's literally his counter. Use your eyes, stay awake. The reason you're getting ######### is because you refuse to stop holding M1 to turn him into an M1 Killer with literally no power
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Freddy is fine. The only people that find him "boring" are survs that rely heavily on looping and can't do nothing else. Every killer playing Freddy runs pop and BBQ because it's 2 of the best perks you can use w him. Just like everyone runs M&A on Myers, hag, deathslinger, etc. It's boring every match because of every survivor running DH or DS also. It's boring getting blinded 75% the time I break a pallet, but you don't see me wanting all those nerfed do you? Find different strategies besides just running to loops. That doesn't work on freddy.
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lol ok Freddy main
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Boring is a matter of opinion, but it's pretty widely agreed on that having your movement speed slowed isn't fun. So give Freddy a power that doesn't involve slowing your movement speed or give him skillful counterplay. (I say skillful because throwing down every pallet like a rank 20 is not skillful or fun)
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No, it indicates that most of the other perks are ######### and not worth running. Why do you think most survivors run borrowed time, Ds, adrenaline, an exhausting perk, unbreakable, and or deliverance? Because they’re good and a lot of other perks are terrible. The problem is that allot of perks are terrible and need buffs
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Posted this in another thread last night, but, relevant here too:
There are a lot of bad perks because there are a lot of perks, period. There are currently 77 survivor perks and 69 killer perks. Balancing that number of things is not easy (plus the perks don't exist in a vacuum either), and balancing changes always have unforeseeable ripple effects.
Have a look at all the characters in, say, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and then do some digging and tell me how many are viable (the answer is 4 out of 56). Dead by Daylight's situation isn't quite as dramatic, but it's the same principle. When you have a ton of options, there is gonna be a small smattering of stuff that is worth using, and a bunch of stuff that just isn't as good. If they tried to rebalance everything, it wouldn't make a difference. The deck chairs might get rearranged, but we'd probably wind up with a roughly similar ratio of awesome-to-awful.
(EDIT: That said, these ubiquitous must-run perks like Pop, BBQ, or all of the survivor perks that you named -- the issue is that the power gap between them and everything below them is so huge that it's not even a contest. Behaviour could probably make everything a little closer in power after a ton of work, but some other perks would probably arise as the meta must-run batch.)
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Excellent comeback. Care to give an explanation as to why I'm wrong?
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Can you explain what is fun about versing him? You like just mindless dropping pallets instant? Or that you got "outplayed" by fake pallets? U lik the slowdown forcing you to hold M1 longer or forcing you to wake up? Or do you enjoy the most when you can't finish a gen and he teleports to yours across the map to pop your 95% finished gen with pop goes the weasel?
Explain, I'm seriously curious why this kilker is fun to you.
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Nah hes fine, The only survivors that really complain about him are rank 10-15s in my experience. Hes pretty balanced if you think about it. Hillbilly can do the exact same thing and so can an Oni with his power up but i never hear people complain about those things.
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Most of my posts are dedicated to why Freddy is OP and needs a nerf. Everyone knows it. The devs just need to actually balance the game.
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The Patriots habbit of winning is just too boring and unfun. They need to be nerfed. I suggest not allowing Bellicheck to call plays in the 4th quarter. Also, they should be limited on how many points they can score early. Because their late game is so OP. Not saying they're OP overall just unfun. They win every game by a field goal. Running the same winning formula. Constantly beating me.
This is how you sound.
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I like having a constant threat or paranoia when facing a Killer. Especially during a chase. There are exceptions to that rule, like The Trapper (Since I don't like getting one-downed because I stepped in an unfortunate trap)
What you're describing to me is a typical game of how a game against a Killer should be, they should get the drop on you if you're not paying attention to fake pallets, they should get the drop on you if you're mindlessly dropping pallets (because news flash, snares aren't that big of a threat), they should force you under constant pressure just with their powers alone, that's one of the reasons I personally like versing Hag and Plague, and you could relieve that pressure from you, but under the risk of not getting anything done for a short while, and under the risk that he might pull you back in making all of that time wasted.
Also if a Freddy pops your generator, and he finds you immediately after, that's 100% on you and your team, and not on the Freddy. Pop has great synergy with Freddy, anyone with half a braincell knows that, so why wouldn't they use that if they want to win?
That's like saying Demogorgon shouldn't use STBFL because he can save stacks with his obsession by using his shred instead, or Nurse shouldn't use Shadowborn because an increased FOV is really useful for her especially during blinks, or Doctor shouldn't use Distressing/Monitor and Abuse because a larger Terror Radius benefits his power, or the Oni shouldn't use Infectious Fright because his snowball potential is really high.
You're quite literally asking why a Freddy uses Pop, is that boring to you? Is the meta for Killers stale? Because I sure as hell could say the same with certain Survivor perks.
If a Freddy gets Pop Goes the Weasel, that means someone got downed, if he gets that OVER AND OVER, that means your team is losing. If your team is losing, your team needs to get better at the game. I've had multiple games against Freddy where all 4 of us escaped, in solo, and some even used Forever Freddy. Just because you don't find yourself having fun versing a Killer who puts a constant fire under your ass, then I'm sorry, but you're not always going to get games against an add-onless Wraith.
I'd say with the start of Rework Freddy, the Killers are finally catching up to how they should've been all along. A constant threat for the Survivors with the ability to apply Map Pressure with decent Chase Potential. I mean, isn't The Doctor also being seen as boring by the forums lately? He has the same things Freddy has, fake pallets, a power that stops you from using a pallet, and the ability to regress generators with the right build. He also puts constant pressure under you with his Madness, which he can easily constantly reapply with Static Blast, which also reveals your location if you're not hiding in a locker or outside his terror radius.
People don't find him boring because of his kit, people find him "boring" because it's an uphill battle to win against him, that's what the word Boring is used for anyways. It's a codeword for "Overpowered" except you don't have anything to back it up. How is Freddy boring but Clown is underpowered and needs buffs? They both do the same thing, in fact I think Clown is more effective at slowing down and downing survivors with the right bottle toss, and his screen gas makes it so it's hard to see where you're going, making it easy for you to disorient where the Killer actually is, making you incredibly easy to mindgame.
Sure the one thing he lacks is map pressure, but that's Freddy's territory. Not his. Clown specializes in downing Survivors fast and end chases faster, or entrapping a Survivor with his Bottle Throws forcing them to either suck it up or take a hit. Freddy specializes in punishing Survivors who stay asleep and having a constant threat throughout the whole map, not even generators are safe from him. That's why faking a teleport works, because Survivors panic.
Personally, I know some people prefer Old Freddy over Reworked Freddy, and those people have valid arguments as to why he is more fun to play as compared to how chase heavy Reworked Freddy is. But Reworked Freddy should be a baseline on how strong a Killer is. Do I think he needs some changes? Yeah maybe, have it so that the dream timer stops if he is chasing you would be a good one for me. Because it forces Freddy to get a hit in first before he can use his power or waste time waiting for everyone to fall asleep.
But hey, the original question is why is Freddy fun for me?
TL;DR, he is fun because he makes me cautious and afraid, I can't feel cocky when facing him and I know every decision and every second I make in a chase against him counts.
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You don’t nerf a killer because they are boring, you nerf a killer because they are OP
I personally find Freddy fun to face, chases are always intense and you can’t just rely on pallet loops or you will go down, you have to think more than just that. If you find Freddy’s snares make the game boring that also means Trapper needs a nerf too, as his traps do more damage to the survivors than Freddy’s dream snares.
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Boring = I die too much to him because he slows down the game so we can't dance around him like a campfire. Like you believe a nerf will help him while playing as killer. FOH.
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Yeah I know. It's a two way street. But people wonder why Freddy has such an insane kill rate & it's because he can utilize those 2 perks so well that the only people who can beat a good Freddy is a sweaty SWF. I'm just saying as a solo survivor who encounters Freddy all the time, it's a literal Nightmare going up against him. No one knows how to do a gen & whatever gens end up getting progress generally lose it fast because he's teleporting left & right with pop. Plus he is one of the easiest killers to play, yet his kit is stacked with an answer for everything.
I don't play SWF. I don't have ppl to play with currently either. So I'm stuck on the solo train. And just saying play SWF isn't the answer because some ppl prefer to be solo. Solo queues already have the game rough with lack of communication compared to SWF, but Freddy is balanced around strong SWFs so it leaves solos at a massive disadvantage. They can't be as coordinated in countering him with gen rush, which is essentially the only way to really counter a gen protection Freddy.
That's boring to play as him, not boring to go against. (Which I mean it still kinda was being that he was a pushover)
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Let me just waste time running to the farthest possible clock to wake myself up or look for an awake survivor somewhere in the map or just fail a skill check & give away my location. Not to mention getting out of sleep only lasts 60 seconds, then you're back in it. Oh what's that? Freddy is using the addon that prevents waking up from missed skill checks? Now I'm basically torn between doing the objective while asleep or wasting time running around the map to stay awake. His passive sleep mechanic might need some looking into now that you mention it.
Honestly the best thing to do against Freddy is be immersed. But once you're in chase with him what else can you do? If you don't loop then you're just running around mindlessly & dropping every pallet you get to immediately...
If those 2 were comparable to Freddy, why aren't their kill rates as high as his? Granted they also make good use of Pop & BBQ, but they kinda need it compared to Freddy because they have actual counterplay.
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Wheres The skill in ds bt adrenaline unbreakable etc.
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DS/BT/DH/AD need a "nerf" to fix how boring they are.
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Literally 2 different things. Football requires skill & talent. Freddy requires basic knowledge of his abilities & hoping you aren't up against an extremely efficient SWF. Literally his best counter is a gen rushing SWF, so doesn't that say something about him?
His snares can be spammed & stack in slowing you. So your point that they aren't strong is invalid. Demo with STBFL is strong, but that also makes up for the fact that he isn't the strongest killer (while Freddy is strong). Doctor actually takes skill to prevent survivors from using pallets/windows because if he mistimes it the survivor still gets it. Clown literally has one power that is just a weaker version of one of Freddy's abilities (Clown has to reload & only gets so many bottles at base, & has to hope the gas actually works since it won't register a slowdown sometimes). By your logic, Clown is just a small percent of Freddy (Freddy gains additional buffs from his addons, from his Oblivious status, has a teleport, forces survivors to look for ways to wake up, has a flickering model when out of range, & can mindgame with pallets & teleports).
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Agreed. Never said they didn't...
There isn't, which is why the devs need to nerf most of the strongest perks. It's why the game is so unbalanced. Certain perks have too much influence, & gen speeds of course.
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If a Freddy is spamming snares, you already know what his weakness is. T&L Wall Loops. A snare spamming Freddy isn't a good one and if you let him get the drop on you, that's entirely your fault.
When I said Freddy is how all Killers should be, I mean it.
I'm not asking every Killer to require thousands of hours to master, I'm asking every Kiler to be strong enough no matter who plays them.
Even if I go up against a God Tier Nurse, I don't feel like I am under constant threat because she still only has to focus on one Survivor at a time, same with Spirit, same with Billy.
That pressure is always on top of you when you face Killers like Freddy, Pig (who actually knows how to conserve her RBTs), Plague and Doctor.
You know why Freddy's kill rates are above 60%? (Which by the way, you should NEVER extrapolate your arguments from the dev's statistics, they themselves have said as much), it's because he is a noob stomper. The same way Hag is. The same way Hillbilly is. Against a competent team, even the most competent Freddy players will suffer because of how his power works. If he uses Pallets, he cannot use them in loops that has none of them, if he uses snares, he can only use them in loops that are straightforward and it has to be short and medium sized.
And we all know what the average DBD player is like, I mean come on, I'm pretty sure people have complained more about their teammates than any particular Killer in the game. The Killer that kills you the most is not Freddy, it's not Nurse, it's not Spirit, nor Doctor, none of them. It's your teammates.
If his best counter is a Gen Rushing SWF, THEN GOOD, most Killers should be like that. They need to force the Survivors to either complete their objectives quickly, or force them to be good enough to waste the killer's time for long enough. That's why people have been asking the devs to buff Solos to SWF level and buff the killers accordingly. Freddy, Doctor and even Pyramid Head are them trying to find that perfect balance of a SWF's power and a Killer's power.
I've played enough Killer and Survivor matches to know that the majority of Survivor Players do not deserve to be in Rank 1, they do not even deserve being in Purple Ranks or even Green Ranks. I keep seeing the same mistakes done over and over and over again, it gets especially frustrating whenever I play as a Survivor and my objective is to win, yet my teammates can't even hit a skillcheck to save their lives. This is especially prevelent on players who always run the same 4 perks over and over again because they think it'll give them an easy win, just because of how Meta they are.
The amount of games I had where not a single gen gets done, or only 1 gets done before it snowballs into anarchy is also staggering. I should not be winning this many games without a single generator getting done. It should literally be impossible if I was being teamed up against a team that is of the same skill level as me. But thanks to Matchmaking, that isn't exactly the case, is it?
Thank god for the MMR change, because at least by then we can see more accurate kill rates. Because right now rank means nothing, and if a Killer is a noob stomper (and is easily accessible), they will obviously have higher kill rates than other killers.
Also, I'll just say this again somewhere in here, but "Fun" is never a reason to nerf something. Fun is subjective. Everyone has fun with different things. Just because you don't find something fun, or boring, to play as OR against, doesn't mean others don't find that thing fun. And to nerf something not because it's strong, but because it's "boring" is such a silly concept that I can't even begin to understand where that sort of thinking makes any kind of logical sense.
Tl;Dr, you're probably not as good as you think you are, Freddy is easily counterable and is one of the only Killers who actually poses a constant threat throughout the whole match. Not just when he is chasing you. Every killer should feel like that, and I'm glad the devs agree if we're going by how they initially designed Pyramid Head.
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Killers shouldn't be designed to compete with hardcore SWF, because then the solo survivor community would be miserable. That's a terrible logic to have. Unless they do decide to buff solo survivors, but until then that's a terrible idea. Also, I don't mind a dream pallet Freddy. Dream snares aren't the end of the world either, until it's added on top everything he is capable of. If a Freddy spams them, it doesn't neccessarily mean he is bad at TL walls. It just means he knows how to force a pallet out of you if you don't want to go down right away. And Freddy is a good example of what killers should be, but maybe a little too much. His kill rate was also around 80% based on the devs data (which shouldn't be a sole basis on judging him, but it definitely shows that he might be a bit too strong in some cases).
I'm not saying nerf him into the ground, but find a way to not make every Freddy nearly identical in playstyle. Yes he is a noob stomper, but he basically seems to be a solo stomper as well. And hey I'm by no means a perfect survivor, but I consider myself good enough one overall. And the only killer I ever struggle this hard against is Freddy. Why? Because the solo experience against him is atrocious. Yes I can blame my teammates, but at the same time they aren't on comms & keeping everyone informed like a SWF. So you can't just entirely blame solos for having a tough time against him.
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Hold on, 80%? Where did you get that number from? Last I checked he was around 60-70% with his kill rate. Which is where most Killers are at the moment.
And honestly, everytime I play Survivor I always expect my teammate to pull my weight, if I lose, it's usually because a teammate did something such a misplay that I would resent them more than the actual Killer.
No seriously, the amount of times I've been unhooked in front of the Killer WITHOUT BT is absurd, maybe it's just a region thing but there are definitely far more potatoes than actually skilled players in Red Ranks in the WA region. I honestly think if Survivor skill matches what rank they actually get, Freddy's Kill rates would be far far lower.
Also, the issue with the lack of variety in playstyles is less on Freddy himself and more surrounding the meta perks he uses. There's not much that synergizes with his teleport. There's Dead Man's Switch, which gives him a ton of value if he hooks the obsession, but it's still not a good enough perk to run consistently during a game. There's Ruin and Surveillance, so he knows if faking his teleport worked or not. But again, there is not much else.
Other Killers definitely has more perk variety, but Freddy's power comes from him teleportation, not his snares, not even his pallets, not even the Dream World. So what do you do when your strongest power also has the longest cooldown? You synergize them with perks that lets you know where Survivors are, alongside another perk that incredibly regresses any progress they may have made. That's why Pop and BBQ works so well on him, on Billy, and even on Demo. Except Billy has more synergy with his perks, he can eat through loops so Endurance and Spirit Fury are good picks for him, Freddy doesn't want to always break pallets. Demo has STBFL, which combines with his Shred can have him save stacks while downing his obsession.
If there were more perks that synergizes with Freddy's teleport, like maybe a Perk that makes it so that he becomes Undetectable to awake Survivors, teleport to another generator, and get the drop on Survivors working on a nearby generator, that could possibly work (hint hint, nudge nudge, Trail of Torment)
I'm struggling to actually find other perks that compliments his powers more, that's just how little perk variety Freddy has, which again, is not a problem with Freddy, it's a problem with the perks that he uses. Most perks work well with a killer that always has constant high mobility or can teleport from anywhere around the map. Make Your Choice works well with Demo and Hag because their teleports aren't restricted to Generators, you also don't want to run perks like Fire Up because you want Generators to stay up, that's how you teleport from one end of the map to the other, maybe Tinkerer is a good pick? But that assumes you have your teleport ready by the time a generator almost gets done and I don't think that always happens especially if you use your teleport often.
See what I'm talking about here? It's not Freddy that's the problem. It's the perks. The "ever-changing" meta never changes. And even if you try to experiment with new perks and combos, new add-ons and diddly diddly di. It just makes the most sense to use the most powerful combo you have at your disposal.
That's why every Freddy runs Pop. Good, Bad, Terrible. Doesn't matter. Because that is the one perk that synergizes well with his power. but at least, that makes his strategy very predictable. I always pride myself in escaping against him especially if he uses Pop since that basically means I won against him with his strongest perk loadout he could possibly have.
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Well a solo survivor shouldn't be designed to go 1v1 vs the killer. What's the point of having 4 of you if and only 1 killer. The killer becomes an ai at that point and makes me glad that there are killers like spirit and freddy to handle such things. Let alone swf on comms running their meta builds.
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You can call it a waste if you want to. But that's the best counter play to Freddy. Stay asleep for 30-50 seconds or until you do a gen and wake yourself up. You're guaranteed an escape as long as everyone doesn't 3 gen themselves
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I beg to differ. New freddy is vastly superior compared to the freddy that released. Dream snares and dream pallets can be used to end chases quicker. The teleport combined with pop and bbq gives him some much needed map pressure. Old freddy was just too weak. If all survivors were asleep he could slow the game down to a crawl but there were just too many ways to wake yourself up. I've tagged people with my power and by the time they fell asleep they already completed what they were doing. I do not miss old Freddy one bit.
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Punishing survivors for not taking the time to negate his power is not OP. Learn to stop holding M1 and actually go wake up, and he has literally no power. I don't get why that's so hard to understand
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Not saying a solo survivor should be able to 1v1 a killer. But against a group of solos with an anti-gen Fredward is a pain to beat. He is not hard to play, so almost anyone can pick up Freddy easily & play him efficiently. To beat a good anti-gen Freddy you need a team to be efficient & well-coordinated. Solo survivors lack the info that SWFs gets in order to compete against that.
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Sounds like a solo survivor problem and not a freddy problem. The devs need to stop nerfing the killers. Theres only 1 killer vs 4 survivors. Not every freddy is going to be the best killer in the game.
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Make the dream world bright like a sunny day, sounds of birds chirping children laughing, take away the survivor auras, make rainbows shoot out Freddys arse, leave the snares, dream pallets, and adons alone.
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None. But it's irrelevant to the problem of Freddy. Screaming "muh survivor meta" isn't a cop out to a different design issue.
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I'm sick of these main killer crying babys, he needs not more than low skill to have a good match. And if you dont think so is just because you suck as a killer and you need to learn how to play.
Here some official stats:
To make it clearer killers should be on the 50% of kill rate (yes, according to devs) and makes sense to me, so if you like freddy you just like an easy killer.
Oh and 2 more things for those crying babys: ds is neccesary just because of tunneling killers (not useful in other way), and bbq is the most used perk because it has not a reasonable counterplay (and i can argue with anyone about it)
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I don't play him like that....
I run Remember Me/BBQ/Devour Hope/Discordance
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Sorry but he is balanced no killer is OP every killer can and will be wrecked except maybe nurse and spirit. His add one are pathetic except slowdown which forever freddy is boring. You're forced to stay on gens FOREVER as he whittles the team but thats it. He is a good killer but doesn't take much skill. This is like calling billy op because he can instadown and pressure the map easily
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Freddy is balanced.
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