Why I hate Freddy (and why he's unbalanced)
Ever since his rework, his kill rate has skyrocketed. Why? Because he's OP. In case you don't know, his power is basically survivors are awake for about 80-90 seconds at the start of the match and then fall asleep. While survivors are asleep they can be interact with dream snares or dream pallets, and also be subjected to debuffs, albeit small ones. He can also use dream projection and teleport to any unfinished gen. Now, in concept, it sounds really cool. But in practice, not so much. Freddy is one of the only killers that make me think, "Guess I'll die." My reasoning is that I've only won a few games against a Freddy. The few times I have were against grey ranks. This does not apply to any other killer. I'll die some games, and I'll win others against the same killers just different players. I absolutely despise Freddy, only playing him when I have a daily.
Assuming it's Freddy with no addons:
Freddy can set down dream snares which make the survivor scream and slow them down. Why is this a bad thing? Well, for one, it takes away from killers like Clown, Hag and Trapper, making it cheaper. Unlike the aforementioned killers, however, Freddy himself does not suffer a cooldown or anything for setting the snares. Trapper has to have a trap available to set it down, Clown has to have a bottle to throw it, Hag has slower movement speed, which I'll return to later, and both Hag and Trapper have to perform a time consuming animation to use their traps. Trapper (and Clown to some extent both have the abilities to be hindered by their own traps, as well. Clown can't see through the gas sometimes, and Trapper can get trapped, of course. Freddy does not, however, have a long animation to set up a snare, nor be on top of it while he's setting it, added on that he does not have a penalty for stepping on them, whether it be movement speed or trapped.
Tagged on with his basekit is dream projection. This basically makes it so he can move anywhere survivors can do progress towards their objective. Why is this a bad thing? A main point is that killers like Hag, who can teleport, have to set up something to be able to do that, and can be destroyed whether it be through ripping portals apart or shining a light on it. Freddy, however does not have to set anything up and has the ability to go to key locations at almost any point in the match. Likewise, he does not suffer a movement speed debuff for being able to do this either, like a killer who I've mentioned before.
Assuming it's pallet freddy:
Freddy can now set up fake pallets that awake survivors can not interact with and asleep survivors see no problem with. What's the issue with this? The main problem is that it takes a group of coordinated survivors to say something about the pallets to return to later to throw down/avoid. After being unhooked, I ran around with a Nea pointing at pallets to throw down because I couldn't. In other words, you have to be susceptible to his power in order counter it. Which, let's not forget, there are addons that make it so if you try to do that, you can get penalized. Like trapper's single addon that makes you injured when trying to disarm a trap. But chases are where they shine. Unlike doctor where throwing down pallets early is generally a good idea, especially when he's charging up his power, you have no indication at all if you should throw it down early or not. And if you don't, it'll come back to bite you if it's fake. If you do, you just wasted a couple of good loops no matter what it was. There isn't a clear indication of whether pallets are real or not, not even a shimmer like Wraith's power or how Freddy sees it but without the blue hue.
Are there counters?
Now some of you might think, "Well just stay awake." But as far as I'm concerned, that's not that good of a trade off. You can either get hooked to wake up, run across the map for just 90 seconds of a bit of high ground, fail a skill check and let him know where you are, which he can go to with his projection, or find an awake survivor to wake you up, which gets longer the more the trial continues. Most of these only last for a minute. Now, obviously, the most sensible thing is to just disarm the snares or pallets (if you know what's real and what's not), but they can go back up in a second, so it's not really that amazing of a counter. Not to mention how canon it is to Freddy's lore, that you have to be asleep to be susceptible to attacks by him in the first place. And because in terms of in-game, the high ground you have is able to be cut short. Not to mention the pill bottle which lowers that advantage quite substantially.
My suggested nerfs
I haven't been playing prior to his rework, but from everyone, it didn't sound like a strong power. And I, like many people, have a suggestion without changing the entirety of his power. Mash together this Freddy and the older Freddy. You have to be asleep in order for him to affect you, and he has to put you to sleep. At least with this, you have more prep time and incentive to wake up. Either that or give him more of a time-consuming animation for setting up snares and traps. At least with the first one it's more canon to Nightmare on Elm, and with the second one, he actually has to become similar to Traps and Hag. Last one, promise: he has a movement speed debuff for walking through snares and pallets, until they fall, have collision. Only the same amount as survivors though so that no distance is gained or lost for walking through a snare, and by the pallets I mean they would push him back, but not stun him until they fall down and explode.
Freddy's just too much of an easy killer that has no downside to using his power. Almost every killer has a downside except for him. Anyways thanks for reading if you did
Comments
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As a former old Freddy main, I have to somewhat agree that new Freddy is a bit ridiculous. The problem really is that he has WAY too much in his base kit. Same thing with Doc, but I digress as this thread is about Freddy. I feel like most of the problems he has can be fixed by moving stuff from his base kit to his add-ons, reworking some useless add-ons to be more viable, and giving some more options to counter some of the things he can do. I have this massive list of changes I would make to the game, here's what I wrote about Freddy: (note unless otherwise stated as "reworked", all new effects are in addition to previous effects)
- Cat Block, Z Block, Pill Bottle, and Paint Thinner reworked.
- Remove Oblivious from Dream World.
- Nightmare can be always seen by awake survivors within 32m.
- Remove stacking penalty on Snap Clap wake up action.
- Every 30 seconds after falling asleep, an additional random clock will become available to use.
- Cat Block adds stacking penalty to each sucessive Snap Clap and increases Clock interaction time.
- Paint Thinner reveals the survivor's aura for 5 seconds upon falling asleep.
- Z Block prevents additional Clocks from becoming available to survivors, adds Oblivious to Dream World, and causes lullaby range to oscillate from +4m to -4M.
- Pill Bottle causes Nightmare to appear intermittenly to awake survivors between 16 and 32m, to appear intermittenly to sleeping survivors beyond 32m, and causes survivors to fall asleep 50% faster if they woke up via failed skill check or Snap Clap.
- Garden Rake and Prototype Claws Dream Tokens reduced to 8.
- Prototype Claws aura reading removed. Prototype Claws inflict Exhaustion for 10 seconds on survivors that interact with Dream Pallets.
- Kid's Drawing adds 5 Dream Tokens.
- Outdoor Rope/Jump Rope/Swing Chains increase Dream Projection cool-down by 15%.
- Green Dress aura reading increased to 4 seconds.
- Blue Dress aura reading increased to 6 seconds.
- Windows Of Opportunity reveals Dream Pallets that were placed after the survivor fell asleep.
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The only thing they need to change is make snares add-ons and dream pallets base. Then also reduce the slowdown add-ons.
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What would that change?
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Because people want to use the dreams snares( best power of freddy) so they waste one add-on slot. And reducing the slowdown add-ons means that forever Freddy gets nerfed and these are the biggest complains.
You dont want to nerf a killer way harder than this immidiately. If he is still powerfull then go further nerfing him.
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Highly disagree he does not need a nerf, they already nerfed his slow down add ons.
You can't shoe horn every killer to play the same exact way. Freddy has counters and can still be bullied by red ranks.
Not every Freddy player is god tier and I have escaped many of a Freddy match.
I grow tired of people trying to nerf every killer to play the exact same way. Not everyone has enough skill to escape a Freddy player and not every Freddy player or any killer for that matter has enough skill to get even a 1k against a red rank death squad swf.
Please just stop.
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I agree. All this talk of just nerfing strong killers, but not learning how to deal with them now is just getting old.
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I don't think Freddy is as bad as people make him out to be. The only change i would want is his slow down add-ons purely because it's a lazy design and doesn't change the way he plays.
Dream snare Freddy is countered the same way as doc, just drop the pallet early.
Pallet Freddy is countered by paying attention to what pallets are around when you are awake. Also pallets around tiles like jungle gyms and shack etc are always real until used so early game you'll have a good idea what pallets are available.
Most Freddy's use bbq or thrilling tremors to get an idea on where to teleport after a hook. Easily countered by letting go of the gen and going into a locker for 5 seconds.
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I don't think he needs a nerf. He isn't as op as people would like to think. He isn't S tier and is probably the 5th best killer in the game since imo his add-ons are pretty bad.
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To be honest, he suffers the most from "We-can't-think-of-anything-interesting-itus"
He has 4 Add-ons that are worthless in an actual game, that being the Blindness and Hemmoraging add-ons.
He has 3 Add-ons that are very situational, and won't work well especially in high ranks. I'm talking about the Missed Skill-check add-ons.
He has a useless BP Add-ons which is basically just a meme add-on and BHVR adds them in for god knows what reason.
He has 3 Add-ons that basically does the same thing, Dream Pallets, the only difference is that there is now aura reading. Ooooooooh scawwwyyy.
And finally he has one Add-on that prevents him from doing his most common tactic to pressure gens, faking teleports.
So that is a total of 12 Add-ons that no normal Freddy main would take into the game. Can you guess what the other add-ons he will take? Correct! It's the one that slows everyone down if they are asleep and the one that makes his teleportation regenerate faster.
As well as 3 add-ons that gives him a ton of pressure from the start or keep one survivor pressured forever OR make him appear closer than he normally would.
So he has 9 useful add-ons and 12 useless ones. No wonder Freddy doesn't have much variety when it comes to his builds because his add-ons literally restrict him to one playstyle if he wants to be played as optimally as possible.
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Yea that's pretty much all true. The dream pallets I'd never use unless I'm using a map offering or I think I'm facing a bad team. Getting hawkins with dream pallets is horrible. You can only place one dream pallet on the whole map before any are destroyed (it's the one below the stairs, near basement spawn).
When I play freddy I'd probably just use the slowdown add-ons because they really are the only useful add-ons for me. The teleporting ones are ok but I don't find them that useful. I usually only teleport if I have pop or I'm using discordance.
I also think the ultra rares are pretty meh. Ones good for tunneling and the other is only good against survivors who will intentionally miss skill checks.
Pill Bottle I like and Class photo has some synergy with Dead Man's Switch. The blindness one is ok but definitely not worth taking over the Pill Bottle or slowdown add-ons.
I'm probably the only person who actually doesn't find him boring to face lol
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I don't find him boring to face either, in fact I am sad I don't face him more often, because lately my best and more intense matches has been against Freddy. No other Killer has been consistently terrifying as him to face.
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The thing about freddy is you don't need to be a master to play him well and maybe beat a good team. So your more likely to get tougher games from a bad freddy than a bad doctor, oni or Bubba.
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True, his power is relatively simple. But it's also nothing special. Slowdown and fake pallets are something other killers could do like Clown and Doc (which btw, imo Clown is rather underrated). The only thing that is special about his power is his ability to teleport, which is strong until you reach the endgame which means you're kinda screwed. Because all gens would've been done by then.
It's just a matter of whether or not the Killer is good at chases because he is truly an M1 Killer.
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Freddy is how every killer should be, survivors should hate going against a killer, they should be afraid. Not think "oh cool, I'm gonna escape easily unless I screw up hard"
Freddy is the only killer in the game that has alot of control over how a match plays out as it should be in a 1v4 situation, not the other way around.
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TL;DR
I can't loop him for 5 gens. Plz nerf
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Those who 'hate' Freddy either don't own him because he's a premium killer, and / or don't know how to play him therefore don't know how to play against him.
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freddy is not unbalanced especially in high rank. he just strong on shutting down long loops with the snares and the pallets means you have to remeber where pallets are and which one you use. so in a sense freddy power is based on survivors keeping a eye on the map and using their heads to know what is the most likely places that snares can be placed and which pallets are real also if the survivor want to stay in the dream world or get out asap.
I would argue the reason why people hate him so much is in part they try to treat him as a normal M1 killer and believe they can loop him for several loops. Best counter to him is when he setting up snares on loop move away from it cause he cant attack when he charging the snare there a window for you to get away. If you stay there you will get hit or downed thats is survivors fault not freddy.
If you try and treat him like a normal M1 killer you going to end up on the hook simple that is what he counting on so play differently keep him guessing makie it hard for him to read your movement predict his most likely snare placements and keep track on pallets. Hes a killer that actually forces you to play differently which is needed for this game different killers that forces you to play differently not the same old loop to pallet and loop again that is boring i want killers to be able to force you to play differently only thing freddy need is the block add on (especially the purple block) to be reworked
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They basically function like this: "I wanna be able to abuse the same easy loops where a killer essentially has to get lucky to hit me (e.g mindgames against third person camera that is totally not in tthe favour of survivors who can cut corners better than killers due to hitboxes), against freddy I have to think where to go next and most likely take a hit unless I outplay him hard without running around resourceless for 40 seconds in a game where a single survivor objective takes only 80secs, nerf.
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Could you please explain then what the actual counterplay to freddy is?
Because staying awake doesn't really matter if you get pulled into the dream world anyway without freddy having to do anything for it.
(Not trying to sound rude,i'm just interested in your opinion)
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Yeah,it's a shame that the devs were so uncreative with his addons :(
Almost all are useless except a few of them.
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Why does every killer need a counter in a 1v4 game where time pressure is on the killer?
His counter is doing the gens and getting out, use up the map ressources instead of hoarding each of the 20+ pallets and you're good to go. If your teammates decide to "play for fun" and the freddy takes it seriously then you lose, simple as that. I think it should be like this against more killers then maybe ppl would stop derping around and take the game more seriously.
Balancing the game around survivors not wanting to hold m1 is terrible gamedesign and just shows that the survivor main objective doesn't need to take more time but needs a complete overhaul.
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I'd argue if they gave him more tools to play with, he would not have as much heat as he would have right now in the forums. Because he would be open to a variety of other playstyles. Right now the only add-ons that are worth a damn require you to basically be aggressive in chases and ONLY chases and pressure whenever you finish downing someone so you can get back to another chase right away.
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as much as your going to hate to hear this its staying awake using any mean neccseary if that means failing a skill check fail a skill check if it means heading to clocks head to the clocks if that means survivors waking you up survivors waking you up freddy is depedent on you staying in his dream world as then his powers will affect you or they make his swing chains alot stronger also keep in mind of potential snare placements keep track of pallets and how freddy behaves around pallets as that can give clues on if they are fake or not. alot of freddy power is dependent on how survivors play and as i mentioned if you try to treat him as a normal m1 killer then that a gg hook for you
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Gen rushing isn't a counter.
I just don't like killers that are just limited to "go to the next loop" or "just throw the pallet early,don't be gready"
We definetely have killers that are extremely strong but also have a lot counterplay to them (e.g Hag or Oni)
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Honestly,if they would just make it that the sleep timer pauses when starting a chase he would be fine.
Rewards players for staying awake and punishes those who didn't do so
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You would think that especially freddys addons would be fun and creative but nope.Behaviour got really really lazy with the addon design honestly.I miss the addons that changed your playstyle entirely :'(
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Honestly I would take those block add-ons and throw them into the garbage, and then replace them with interesting powers that Freddy could use. So like instead of just Snares or Pallets, Freddy could create fireballs he could chuck at Survivors, or shapeshift as other Survivors to fool them into thinking they are safe, or have a variety of powers that you can use that uses up Dream Tokens. Tokens which you can regain by say, hitting Survivors in a Dream.
Just spitballing here, but honestly that would be more like the Freddy we all know from the movies. Using a variety of different powers to toy with Survivors in the Dream World.
(It's just a shame this is not the Freddy from those movies, but the Freddy from the 2010 remake...)
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They give you 3 ways to deny his power for extended periods, put him in cd at the start of the game, make small game and maps counter dream pallets, and now survivors are getting a perk that can shut down his teleport entirely for small periods..and that's still not enough for you?...
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Let me guess, Forever Freddy build main?
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Forever Freddy no longer exists. They nerfed his rope add ons already and then nerfed ruin.
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They reduced them already. The values are laughable. It’s like using thana alone. The effect is soo weak alone it’s worthless. About snares being add-ons it wouldn’t change a thing. And the other thing ppl like to whine about is PoP. Yeah...they can’t nerf the most balanced perk in the game just because it’s nasty on Freddy. Also honestly I don’t see why would anyone ######### on Freddy as long as Spirit is still a thing. Littearly the only killer in the game that are clearly unbalanced and you get downvoted for pointing it out.
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Technically it still does, mainly because his teleportation has the best synergy with Pop+BBQ. Meaning he can regress generators faster, get into chases quicker, get more downs, which then leads to more Dying Light Tokens as well as Thanataphobia stacks, which then leads to more Pops.
His rope add-ons and ruin being nerfed definitely helped, but it still exists.
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Spirit loses just like any other killer..a chase isnt supposed to be even ground..finally getting to that point
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it wouldnt make sense how does being in a chase running making yourself exhausted keep you awake in fact i would say that it would speed up sleep time again freddy is not overpowered not boring in fact he a killer that actually challenges survivors forcing them to be aware and adpat to the situation which should be the case for all killers freddy stay awake spirit backtrack and reduce noise when she phasing hillbilly turn a tight corner when he using chainsaw
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It only bothers me that they always have the same anti-gen build.
It becomes repetitive and therefore boring.
I would like them to make assassins that could change mechanics, like Myers that you can do many interesting builds.
It will be interesting the new perk to block motors, in truth I will really enjoy activating it when I make TP to apply pops. 😈
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Again, I've mentioned this before, but that may be because he lacks interesting add-ons that changes his playstyle and his power isn't complimented by many perks except BBQ and Pop (his real power anyways).
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Yeah but hes not unbeatable in that scenario the way he was before, or at least not nearly as bad. Good teams can still stomp him. I know because Ive run the build and lost to good survivors
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Very much a m1 killer like clown (who definitely is the worst killer in the game lol).
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The Adrenaline your body produces when being in a life threatening situation would easily keep you awake.
But trying to apply logic on video games doesn't work anyways.
But why would you be against that simply change?
It would make freddy much much more fair to play against without making him too weak.
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What kind of argument holds water when it's not challenged?
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"Why? Because he's OP."
Stopped reading there. Freddy OP? lol
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So you basically want Freddy to be a m1 killer that has to wait until your asleep, then rely on add-ons to use his power? Ugh... Freddy is the mold of what ALL new killers and re-worked need to be. Counter play at loops, mobility, and can slow the game down. I guess you want a bunch of clowns and Bubba's right? 🤦♂️
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It's been a while since I saw someone accuse someone else of being biased by mentioning their profile picture. How do you know he's not simply showing support for burn victims?
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because freddy is fair to play atm he has counters and also he giving you alot of power to decide how strong he is cause you decide if you want to be in the dream world or not. Granted he is more challenging to play as/ against than some other killers but that is what the game needs more challenging killers to force you adapt and change your playstyle not do the same thing with ever killer. the only thing i would ever suggest is to change the block add ons
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I have as much evidence for my statement as you do for yours. I use a Nurse profile picture, but I'm a survivor main who hasn't touched Nurse in a year or so.
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Just like there isn't any proof for your statements. You don't know what people play, so stop pretending you do. Either address the arguments or don't.
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Me, a survivor main, Freddy an easy m1 killer, me playing survivor in the frigging least
Anyway you've gone and proved the point I made spectacularly. You've proven that you are an extremely biased absolutist player who thinks any dissenting voice "HAS to be from a survivor main". This type of mindset is utter Poison to any form of balancing. Also I do find it funny how you say "Well, uhh Freddy is just a normal M1 killer" but then you go and say "Bah, I guess you don't want to adapt to different forms of play"
Well which is it? Is he an M1 killer that is easily looped or is he a Killer that genuinely changes how chases are played and map pressure is conducted? I think you should take your own advice my friend instead of blaming your loses on "evil second chance survivor perks", the game being unfair to you, you not wanting to learn how to counterplay
Maybe YOU should get better my friend. You will never get better with this petty mindset you have
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People say staying awake is his counterplay,but you will still fall asleep even of you were awake all the time before.So how is this fair?
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cause its how you manage the sleep and awake time and freddy in movie and game is all about getting the people to constanly fall asleep so lore wise it makes sense
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Keep moving to the next loop/ jungle gym,
Blood pallets looked a bit washed out compared to real one's plus you can clip through the corner of them.
I highly doubt that is gonna change your mind but not every player plays freddy like a rank one god tier killer.
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