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I am a changed survivor
I used to be very anti-DS and meta builds, but damn killers are really trying to change that. Other than the two rank 20 killers I've been matched with tonight, literally all the other killers practically bust a nut when they see no DS and I get proxy camped and tunneled to death. Like hard tunneled. Others try to take hits, but even then if they hit them the killer still follows me right after. I do not taunt killers, I do not use items (except maybe a medkit but rarely), and I was running sprint burst/ botany/ bond/ resilience. Definitely not a sweaty build, yet I get tunnled because I do not run the meta. Welp, here I am now with BT, DS, unbreakable, and sprint burst lol. Seems the only way I'm *allowed* to remain in a match.
I hate complaining about this because of the stupid "survivor handbook rules" but to killers, this is why people run this stuff lol. I never did until you guys wanted to punish me for not running it.
And before people call me a survivor main, I play both, but I try to play fairly. 🤦♀️
Comments
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What is your rank? I mean quite a few killers can play scummy but so can survivors and with matchmaking how it is you could be put against potato tunnelers. I find the fun police come out late night so best to try different times if you can.
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I very rarely run into camping/tunneling killers at red ranks, though it does happen now and then and BT usually does its job enough to let me go back to looping anyway.
You're very likely to run into people who do that at lower ranks as a survivor because of inexperienced killers. And yes, while killers who play like that are the reason perks like DS/BT are meta, the reality is the speed at which gens can go generally forces a killers hand to do so if they have any interest in doing well at times. So, it isn't just a product of scumbag killers, although more often it is because of bad killers. You'll generally find REALLY good survivors won't run any super meta perks outside of maybe BT, because they're very confident in their ability to loop.
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I am red ranks and the killers were mostly red rank as well, but a few purples. Most lower rank killers I had tonight (rank 7s to rank 20s) all played pretty fairly. But every single one of the red rank killers I had tonight (which was most of my killers surprisingly) all played like absolute scum lords. I work late so I play even later. Normally my punishment for playing late is long queues and rank 20s. But here lately I've been getting people who play like this.
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Normally I don't run meta perks, but if I do it's only ever one at a time, maybe two depending on how my games are going. Either unbreakable, iron will, or BT.. I never run decisive because I feel it is a bit unfair at times and I know as a killer it annoys me. The killer who started my horrible night of dbd was a laggy freddy so like what can I even do against a latency freddy lunge. But I get punished for running non meta builds. And now I don't care about how fairly I play. (:
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Playing fair means that somebody follows the devs' rules. Playing fair is not the same as playing "soft" and intentionally giving the opponent an advantage - that would be playing generously.
Killers and survivors are allowed to play how they want, as long as they follow the rules and don't exploit/hack etc. Everybody is allowed to use whatever perk/add-on/tactic they want, so of course, if you need DS/Unbreakable/exhaustion perks, then run them.
This is a PvP game. The normal thing is to expect that people play to win. Nobody is the opponent's fun provider.
Btw, it has been months since the last time I played killer. Too stressful. 🤷
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I mean, nowadays everybody can get to rank 1 as a perkless survivor. Rank just tells us how often the surv plays the game.
(I'm just stating that as a general thing. I don't want to say that you specifically don't belong on rank 1.)
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If there's no obsession, you're getting tunneled 95% of the times. It's not news. Red rank killers are usually more ruthless, that's all.
Tunneling existed before DS, not because of DS. Not to mention, officially, DS wasn't created as anti-tunneling specifically, according to BHVR.
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Yep.
This is the current state of the game.
Run your meta build. Most Killers give zero ######### about anyone's enjoyment of the game but thier own. You do you. 👍
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I notice that... in my survivor games
My killer games I go in thinking everyone has DS and I like spead out my hooks... and it bites my in the butt
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Tunneling is pretty much the norm and even more so when there is no obsession. The thing is, it just is highly rewarding for the killer with absolutely no downside except for DS, which can be prevented with slugging in most cases. At least one obsession perk is needed to prevent hardcore tunneling.
Camping at least I don’t see that often in higher ranks, but of course in the end game it’s a common (and valid) strategy. So BT can get handy in almost every match.
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I got to rank 1 the same way. My complaint is not that I need them to be good, but my chance to even stay in the game against these guys. When I get immediately tunneled off hook there isn't much I can do for a chase if I didn't have BT on me and somebody threw the pallet next to me before unhooking me in the killer's face. I had never once used DS until this point. But if a killer is going out of their way to screw me that bad, then I guess I'll punish them as well.
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I'm just saying, killers complain all the time about the meta build but then when people don't use it they punish them for it lol. So if you wanna win by camping and tunneling all the time then I guess I'll run meta build. That play style they choose is what breeds survivors who run this. So they are causing the problem they hate so much.
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Am I the only one who feels more relaxed as killer? I prefer playing killer because I don't rely on matchmaking to give me a decent team.
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I ran a dude from gen 5 to gen 3 and then I got proxy camped and farmed/ hard tunneled to my death hook. I was with a friend and he did the same to her so apparently that's how he plays. So if killers want to play dirty then I guess I will too.
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Also, to @OperationMintyHippo, run whatever you want.
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Are you higher rank or lower rank? I'm probably green rank killer rn cause it stresses me out a lot so I don't play as often as I used to. I'd always get red rank swfs.
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Just run the meta of you feel you need to, I personally have been doing mostly the same lately.
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I refuse to use DS and the like. Simply because I don't like them as perks. I also am trying to be considerate to the killer. But I definitely have those nights where they make me want to run the sweatiest build possible.
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Killers don't generally like to tunnel (it's not "fun" for anybody) but if they don't get a death before 3 gens are done it goes from being an uphill battle to an Everest climb just to make it competitive. Making it harder to tunnel ignores the problem and attacks the symptom.
There's a fundamental issue with the game design that encourages "bad" killer behavior that has been band-aided by second chance perks, which only really serve to further encourage that behavior. And you can't fix it by just making gens take longer to complete, because that will give the killer too MUCH of an advantage for securing an early kill - it's just a band-aid in the other direction.
It's going to be extremely difficult to discourage tunneling because the only way to fix it would be a ground-up redesign of the overall gen completion mechanic. There needs to be some incentive for not tunneling.
My quick suggestion would be to make a weaker Hex: Ruin the default nature of generators and add a time-pressure situation for the survivors (similar to when the gates open) that in a 4v1 situation is pegged at 20 minutes or so, with 10 minutes added every time a survivor is killed. Don't escape by the timer end, Entity takes you (it always struck me as odd that the rules are set up as an Entity test for the killer and not the survivors, anyway). It should take slightly longer to heal yourself from dying (you should be able to do it while you crawl), but once you do, you can get up with no assistance. That would add an incentive for killers to roam and push people off gens and weigh the consequence of giving more time to the survivors vs taking one out of the game as fast as possible, without just making slugging the meta. It would also make gen rushing harder, as gen tapping would be counterproductive. I'd also probably increase the rate of gen repair with 2 or more survivors working together.
Obviously the numbers for gen regression and escape timer would have to be tuned, but something like this works better to encourage roaming killer behavior more than discourage the unwanted behavior of tunneling and camping. Injure hits would be more valuable as survivors wouldn't have unlimited time to hide and heal up, survivors would have to do more than just "there's a gen let's do it" - they'd have to consider the final 3 gen as much or more as the killer. And everybody would be under the time crunch, not just the killer - so you'd have less hunting down the killer to intentionally loop to waste his time and more looping as a function of survival.
It would, overall, be seen as a buff to killers I'm sure, but the problem with tunneling and camping is that survivors are too safe at the moment (not necessarily in terms of second chance buffs but in terms of pressure), which leads to HUGE incentives for killer to score as quick and easy kills as possible - and you get tunneling and camping. The only way to encourage killers to draw it out is to put them under less pressure to do the opposite, and the only way to do that is by putting more (some?) equalizing pressure on survivors. The killer just needs to know that harassing can potentially be as valuable as hooking.
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Same here. I prefer Survivor, but Killer is not something that is stressful for me.
I guess there just needs to be the mentality that not every game can be won and not every game will have nice Survivors in it. But the majority of games have, so its fine.
(Of course if a Killer/Survivor behaves like a dick during the game, the other party will not be happy in Endgame Chat... But I guess thats logical)
@Topic:
Well, welcome to the Meta. Part of the reason I use DS is simply because I can guarantee that there will be an Obsession. If there is no Obsession, Killers tunnel like crazy, because they know that it cannot be punished.
Like, last time I did not use DS was when I tried the Dwight-Challenge, because I needed some room for Quick&Quite, Urban Evasion... Stuff like that. Guess what? The Freddy who I played against decided to abandon his chase and teleported back to me. No unsafe Unhook at all, but hey, he can do that, so he did. And since I did not have any DS, I went down two times, was the only one getting hooked before I died (because why should he not tunnel me again after seeing I had no DS?)...so, yeah. Fun game.
In the end, Killers will not use Meme Builds as well, so why should Survivors? Killers who complain about DS are usually the ones who could have avoided it, but did not do so.
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If this is at red ranks that you're talking about then I really don't believe you're getting tunneled and camped as much as you say you are. I play at red ranks and very, very rarely am I tunneled or camped and I play massively more than the average player. The vast majority of the time players complain about camping or tunneling it is really their team making bad plays and the killer capitalizing. If a survivor is sprinting across the map leaving a trail back to the hook for example so I follow him back and down the person getting off the hook that is not tunneling or camping, it was a teammate making a really bad play.
If your argument is that there are a lot of bad players in solo queue that get you killed then that would be a much more reasonable point to make.
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@thrawn3054 I definitely reached that point.
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@Blueberry you can choose not to believe me, I don't really care lol. But I know how my matches went last night and it shocked me too. I normally don't get tunneled and camped like I received yesterday but alas. All last night I had red ranks doing just that for no reason. I wish i were lying for attention but nope. This really did happen.
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I play survivor at rank 1, and for me, it's pretty rare to get hard tunneled. Most killers will choose to chase someone else if they have a new target.
Of course, if the survivor who rescues hides, then what do you expect the killer to do?
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@JustCats I do believe a change needs to happen, and some things you suggested may be good for like a base game, but once you add perks into all that it seems like some things might become heavily overpowered.
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@Mister_Holdout in most red rank games I play the killer doesn't even come back to the hook. If they do, it is to go after the person unhooking. But last night most of my high ranks killers sought me out. People would try to take hits because they noticed the killer wanted to 3 hook me as fast as they could. I could understand that if gens were going quickly, but they were not. Idk what was going on with the killers last night but they all seemed to be very hateful lol. And that is the gameplay that breeds the dreaded meta build survivors.
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Play whatever makes your games more enjoyable. I don’t care if survivors think I’m sweaty for running Pop or if killers think I’m sweaty for running DS, I’m gonna use the perks I enjoy that make my games less frustrating.
I don’t enjoy being tunnelled so I run DS. I didn’t used to but I got tired of being chased immediately off hook. If people wanna complain about it then whatever, but there’s a reason it’s such a popular perk. Most of the people who complain about DS have no qualms about using things survivors hate like moris, NOED, iridescent add ons and so on. They’re free to use what they like and so is everybody else.
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And no, they didn't see scratch marks leading back to my hook because the killers never left.
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when i don't use an obsession perk and see no obsession i feel free, i don't proxy camp or else, but if someone unhook when i am nearby i go for the unhooked and wait the 15 seconds for BT if possible, i know i won't deal with DS so i do the smart thing, call it tunnel if you want, i do it because i know you don't have it and so i don't have to worry, if i see the healthy first then yes i go for them, but if i see you running into nothing and he run into me, i hit them and go for you since you are nowhere, logic and smart
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Funny. Since i got the same but opposite. I was running some fancy build on killers to scare the hell out of people yet 9/10 matches i get "gg ez, trash killer", "noob killer", "uninstall game kid", "learn how to play kiddo", "i didnt knew vegetables can play this game now" etc. Guess what? Right know i run only NOED, Pop the Weasel, Ruin and BBQ. Also i started camping hard, especially when i see they attempt to rescue him, and i tunnel whatever i can. I mean - why should i go for someone healthy and with 3 hooks and not for someone with 2 hooks only and already injured? After that i got only 3k and more often 4k than not. Red ranks, pff.
You make killers who they are right know. If you would be kinder to them they would be kinder to you. But since you insult them in every single game, tea bag them, twerk at them, mock them at gates etc then why should they care about your feelings? You may bring whatever you want, i dont care. If you think DS gonna save you then you must be naive since it only gives you few seconds and prolong your agony - good for me.
Most people who complain about killers probably forget about how lobby looks like after game where 3 or 4 survs escape. Its whole party of people blaming killer, wishing him painful death etc. And that is what makes merciless killers. Oh, i almost forget - situation above make merciless killers but also few other things like flashlight squad, gen-rush squad, key-rush squad (3 toolboxes and 1 key for fastest escape possible) or abusing infinite loops. Probably i also forget about many things. If survivors abuse loops then why killers shouldnt abuse hooks? Both are just core mechanics, right? :P
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No DS and killer tunnels
Killer: LOL just run DS so I can't tunnel
DS and killer tunnels
Killer: I tunnel DS users.
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That's why i run DS on every single survivor after DS rework.
I used to hate DS but tunnel after tunnel this perk became my primary perk.
Never tea bag on pallets etc, i play fair and i don't want 5 min games because killers playing dirty.
If you want the delicious fresh unhook, eat my DS or slug me. And after, to the dbd forums they go to cry about DS rework.
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I never respect DS unless I know for a fact it will cost me pressure. I'll eat DS all day because as soon as I do that survivor is getting tunneled off the hook. Why do you ask? Because I am forced to play utterly ruthless if I want to win. Nothing person it's just business.
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Imagine those same killers that you're talking about in your post gathering together and trying their hardest to get DS nerfed.
They want easier kills, they want to tunnel with no punishment. It's a lazy playstyle and I thank the Devs on a daily basis every time my Shiv hits the neck of a killer and I manage to escape the match.
It's terrifying how hard they're trying to get rid of DS.
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@notsonew well these killers didn't even leave the hook at all so it wasn't like somebody was being chased and ran them back to me. They would even wait for me to be unhooked and instantly down me again. Wouldn't go for grabs or anything. Like they made it a point to down me again asap and tunnel me out of the game. One game I had after the killer had hooked me twice immediately, he actually did leave, but as soon as I was unhooked he again went straight for me. People tried to body block but nope he just wanted me.
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@Larikal you seem to have some deep seated issues about survivors lol. I'd just like to point out when you were listing all the bad things about survivors you kept saying "you" whereas I stated I am nothing like those survivors.
You said to be kinder to killers and they would be more fair to me. I always play fairly. I don't taunt, I do not message them after, etc. You seem to be treating survivors poorly and hate them based on assumptions that they're all that way. I am upset solely with killers who are currently playing in a mean manor for no reason at all. Seems kindness got me 3 hooked back to back. DS will now allow me to get away from a hook so even if i don't have borrow time on me I can at least have a few seconds and a chance to get somewhere away from a rude killer so I at least have a shot.
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@xenofon13 I fully felt that.
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I don't blame you OP. DS wouldn't be a necessity if Killers didn't tunnel so often. But they do, so it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@HollowsGrief that's fine, but at least DS will get me more than 3 feet away from the hook before I'm tunneled and hooked again. I will at least get a shot to run the killer instead of him taking the 100% easiest and cheesiest way out.
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@BigBrainMegMain because getting rid of DS is the last step before they can feel free to be total asshats. No obsessession is an immediate death sentence for someone coming off the hook.
Though I do believe DS does need a slight change still. Also the devs should have there always be an obsession even if the killers have no obsession perks and nobody has DS.
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Yeah, if they learn you don't have DS it's like open season.
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well that's being an #########, i only act this way toward a survivor when they simply ask for it, flashlight spam and tbag and such, but other than this, i never do
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@OperationMintyHippo Agreed with you 100%.
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