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For people who complain about Noed and DS.
Hello again, so recently I asked does DS really need a nerf, most of the responses were how " it provides a 60 second immunity, and takes time away from the killer" and or " rewards bad players." I noticed some of these complaints given by most of whom I assume who are killer mains parallel to the complaints about, Noed either it being "rewards bad killers" or takes too much time away from the main objective. " Those who have no problem with these perks have a simple solution to both. NOED = Do the Bones, DS = Eat it or Ignore it. Both or the perks have counters but people don't like them because it takes "too much" time. I did the math and 5 totems between 4 survivors really doesn't take much time. Each totem takes 14 seconds to break, there's 5 totems on each map that's 70 seconds to cleanse them all. From my experience (( I run nancy's perk that allows you to heal in lockers)) finding totems isn't that hard and is technically an objective since you are stopping hypothetical Noed that's gonna screw you over in endgame. So I don't see why people complain about that even if they're solo cue. Even if you aren't running the perk 90% of the time you see a totem you probably are gonna cleanse it because, points? Now for DS literally you either ignore it and slug adding map pressure or take it like a champ so you don't have to deal with it later. If you have something that I should know about why these aren't valid options I'm all ears. Thanks!
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"eat it or ignore it" doesn't work well enough with how abusive and strong DS is. A very common situation in the current state of DBD is you hook someone, one teammate with DS and BT comes running up and unhooks them. Now you have 2 DS active, and 1 BT, on the 2 survivors right in front of you. If you slug the rescuer, congrats you wasted time and the other guy made distance. Then they either use DS if you pick them up, making you lose 1 hook instantly and now you have to chase them again. Massive loss in pressure. If you leave them on the floor they just use unbreakable and get up or someone comes by for the one tap latter.
If you chase the other guy BT takes a hit from you, they zoom off because of the speed boost, and now you have another chase on your hands. Then DS and Unbreakable come into play again. There's no situation where the killer does not have to waste a large amount of time, something most killers can't afford with the current gen times and state of the game.
Another common situation is having DS up so you just do whatever you want for the next 60 seconds. If a survivor works on a gen with DS the killers only option is to eat it to stop them or slug, but again, slugging is not a good enough solution.
DS just does waaaay too much in its current state and put the killer in a really bad situation with no real solutions and it's very easily abused by survivors. It's a long stun, free health state, aggression tool. Slugging is too hit or miss to count as a real counter, it only works of you can get every survivor slugged because they are all 1 taps that you have no way to keep track of where they are without running a slugging build. It makes no progress towards your objective of hooking the survivor 3 times to kill them and has much less pressure than hooking someone.
I wouldn't even compare these to NoED which gives you a boost at the end of the game if all the totems weren't broken. With NoED I can choose to do bones now, or just brake the Hex later if it does activate. I don't even need to break all the totems, just the one after NoED activates if I want. NoED is a concern at the end of the game and you give up the rest of the match to use it. Second chance perks, such as DS, are usable from the moment the game starts and have ineffective ways to try and get around them. NoED is annoying, but it's really not a great perk, I don't even run it when I do play killer. The time its active is short and it only works if the survivors let it. The other survivors can just leave while that 1 person goes down if they really just don't care as well. Again, I would not be comparing these two perks, they are very different.
To many "Heads I win, Tails you lose" perks on the survivor side, and DS is just the biggest example of that. The current survivor meta is punishing killers for survivor misplays, which is pretty bad on its own, not to mention multiples per match. Too many out-of-jail free cards stacked on 4 survivors.
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Cool, I like the hypothetical scenario you gave me, but you are (( assuming)) at red ranks, you are going to expect high IQ plays, the best you can do in that situation is to get rid of DS before endgame so it's not a viable resource, as for someone going for the save with BT on them, I don't think BT stops you from grabbing them. The game is now perfect nor will it ever be, DS and NOED are fine the way they are. I play in red ranks and I've never not once in my 9 months of playing this game have encountered someone going into a BT save and DSing. Because A) killers aren't that stupid and know what they are doing. Or B) it's because the survivor is trash. Noed always gives you a free kill if you played the game right. I play both killer and survivor and DS doesn't really impact my gameplay at all cause I eat it and hunt down the person who had 5 seconds to run away.
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"High IQ plays" yeah ok lmao. "Getting rid" of DS still waste your time a lot. You didn't get rid of it, you let them use it. they got the use out of the perk they wanted. In no way did you counter it. Grabbing someone off of a save is not very reliable, especially with the servers rn, and they don't have BT active they have it equipped to give to the person on the hook. DS is not fine, I disagree. I also play in red ranks, it doesn't matter. Rank means very very little and doesn't make your arguments right just because of your rank, so don't know why you brought this up. Also you're not playing in red ranks if no one is going for the save with BT in their loadout.
A) killers can't do much about it so it doesn't matter if they expect it, another problem.
B) This is part of the meta build, so good survivors run it.
NoED might give you 1 down you would have otherwise not gotten maybe, but that's about it.
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Never said it was an argument just stating an opinion, I respect yours but disagree, you'd be surprised how many times someone had BT and didn't use it. I don't run DS or Noed on a daily. But when i do I put them to good use. But I want to ask you something getting rid of DS early game or letting it stay until endgame which would prefer to do?
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Just because we have a "lesser of two evils" doesn't mean its not evil. I don't use NoED because imo it's really not worth it. But I do use DS and that perk is very easy to abuse.
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Cool you abuse a perk you know that you can abuse. But why be a hypocrite if you hate when survivors use it? I don't get why people complain if they're gonna use the perk. That's like complaining about a killer or survivor bringing in a mori/key((which they themselves are very broken and I don't like them but lets not get into that.)) then you doing the same. Just my opinion sorry if you disagree. But if we must how about instead of going back and forth we can come up with a better idea for DS instead of a "60 second immunity."
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I'm not going to not use an advantage that's within the rules of the game just because I don't agree with it being there or because its unbalanced. Mori's and keys are the same. Are they dumb currently? Yeah. Does that mean I shouldn't use it? Nope. Players shouldn't handicap themselves just because they know something is not balanced. With the same token we shouldn't not point out something is unbalanced just because we use it. Now if it's an exploit or bug that's a different story, but if its working as intended there's no reason not to use it except imposing it on yourself. It's better to push for these things to be fixed, not to not allow them at all ever.
As for fixing DS there's a lot of solutions I've heard over time. Making it last only 30 seconds but pausing the timer in chase, making it deactivate if someone else gets hooked, making it deactivate if the survivor gets on a gen or totem or locker, disabling it during end game, making second chance perks not stack either by a permanent exhaustion like effect but for second chance perks or hard limiting how many can be equipped. There's plenty of solutions floating around and a lot of them are pretty reasonable.
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M E H, those do sound balanced but can still be abused in someways, I'd like to keep DS the same but if I'd have to change it,I'd it have to be earned like deliverance or detectives hunch, like maybe you'd have to run the killer around for double the amount of time the timer of DS is and win the chase. If not then shorten the timer.
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@Blendette_will_Evade That could work too if we wanted to change how it works and its purpose. A lot of people wan't it to stay an anti-tunnel tool, which is fine. One of its main problems right now is it hurts killers who aren't tunneling at all or survivors just throwing themselves in situations that would otherwise be dangerous/a bad play because they have it up, which is what a lot of suggestions are purposing to fix.
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You gave this quite a good write up. First of all, I am a killer main, so I might be a little bit biased. The thing that doesn't make sense about DS to me is that it rewards getting hooked in a way, and if the killer downs a survivor, I think they deserve that down. At least with NOED you have to hit a survivor, whilst with DS you get rewarded for getting hooked. Even though I am a killer main, some things about killer needs nerfs. I think that iridescent head and Myers's tombstone piece add-ons need nerfs. I think a good example of a perk that would be broken, but seems to reward good play. Deliverance is kind of unfair, but nowhere near as DS, because it rewards safely unhooking a survivor, unlike DS which rewards getting hooked.
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If camping and tunnelling are legit strats, then so is running DS and BT. If you're being tunnelled off hook, a lot (several games in a row), you're gonna have no choice but to run DS. Why? Being removed from each and every game you play in the first 2 minutes because killer decides to tunnel you off hook every time isn't very fun. And honestly, the map changes, while good in a sense (remove infinites) is also bad with the drastic tile changes and increase of deadzones overall.
Also, is slugging really that hard? Even if it may seem like an utter waste of time, it's actually a brilliant method to get survivors off gens.
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