Stop nerfing NEW strong survivor perk -- here is the reason.
i keep listening and reading about Killer mains saying Survivors have to many second chance perks, that everyone use only meta perks. but i also read and listen to them saying "nerf this and that perk" example Mettle of Man.
When mettle of man came out for the first time it was Broken af but after the first nerf it was pretty good but somehow killer mains still complained about how broken it still was when you needed 3 unhooks to get that perk activated.
now i listen to people saying the upcomming perk is to strong for the new survivor what will give you the BT effect and they again ask for a nerf. now the real question is.. are you really sick of people using only DS,Adren,BT or do you just want them to use these perk? if you really want them to use something different why you want everything to get nerfed? that is not how it works. you cant ask all the time for a nerf and then complain about "every survivor use the same build" well maybe because of that reason?
Anyways i took a look ingame to the perks of survivors and i saw exactly 20 useful perks you could use in rank1 against rank 1 killers.
then i went to killer perks to see how many useful perks killers have and i count 36 + all different killers you can play + synergy of some builds.
for survivors you dont have the choice if you wanna win. means no meme builds. with the +50survivor perks you can maybe do 3-4 synergized perk builds what will help you to win.
now here are the perks if you're intersted on my list.
Survivor
And here the Killer perk list.
Now the question here is do you really want people to use perks like Streetwise, Vigil, Autoditact (what is never working because of RNG) or lightweight? or do you really want to ask all the time for a nerf for a good perk so survivors are forced to use the Meta to have a chance or fun in a game?
Killer mains need to stop with thinking every game is against a SWF. you maybe wont belive it but there also people like me who play solo, or duo. so do everyone a favor and stop asking for a nerf and maybe ask for a buff for the bad survivor perks and maybe people start using them? i guess that is enough ranting against the MAIN player.
maybe change your mind and try the opposite side? you'll get more understanding about everything.
Comments
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"Useful" is relative because different perks are good for different playstyles (for example, many of the survivor perks you crossed out are perks I personally use and find useful, due to my playstyle). That said, both things can be true. There are survivor perks that are too powerful and others that are too weak. They're not mutually exclusive statements.
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tell me what perk i crossed are you using?
are these perks usefull against rank1's? are these perks helping to survive? to waste time of the killer? do they help against Godlike playing killers? do they help against a Nurse, Spirit or huntress? or are they meme builds?
im not talking about meme builds you can use in a SWF im talking about useful perks to survive to waste time to have fun. and if needed to carry the potatos in your team. can you carry your team with vigil? plunderers, ace in the hole? perks what increases gen speed are useless (gens are already quick) do the crossed perks help against Camping or Tunneling? or even against slugging? if i meme around yes i can also run the crossed perks. but if i wanna successful these perks wont help.
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In no particular order, I use the following that you crossed out (among others, I don't have the patience to go through all the perks I use and see which ones you crossed out):
- Dark Sense
- Alert
- Aftercare
- Urban Evasion
And I'm trying to get more, like Poised and Inner Strength. They help me survive and escape, but they're catered to my playstyle.
You prefer a more aggressive playstyle, which is why you rate second-chance perks as "useful" and the rest as "useless". I prefer never being seen by the killer and/or knowing where the killer is at all times, along with my teammates.
I have success with my stealth builds, the same way you do with your second-chance builds. Different perks for different play styles. Why should every single survivor perk cater to your playstyle?
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my current Survivor build is Plunderers Instinct, Ace In The Hole, Iron Will and Kindred and i do just fine at rank 1.
and i find Plunderers and Ace In The Hole to be VERY usefull - actually, i have trouble playing without them.
just because a perk is not meta doesnt mean you couldnt use them. there are lots of fun perks that match other players paystyles, just as @Orion said.
you dont need all the meta stuff to survive / kill - ive seen people do well without having anything equipped on both sides already.
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I use spinechill and that is it for meta perks.
I stay in red ranks constantly as survivor and stake out is one of my go to perks, also I use calm spirit and boy do doctors hate me lol.
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It's funny, but half the perks you half crossed off as survivor I use at red rank and still am very successful. On the other hand a few perks you suggested as killer are imho trash.
The thing is people use perks differently. More than 75% of all perks on both sides are useful and functional at rank 1, but not everything is the same power level that you clearly are seeking.
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Crossing out a ton of good survivor perks and then keeping a bunch of crap killer perks like overcharge, blood warden, remember me, and bitter murmur? You seem to have kept everything that you just personally like for survivor and just bloated the killer list.
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Aa far as strong survivor perks, they are hard countering pop goes the weasel in this chapter. The single best killer slowdown perk.
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God damn fix the edit button! All the survivor perks this chapter are good so you don't have much to complain about anyway. The real problem is they added another lol can't die perk and dear god are those bloody frustrating. Way too many already given people run entire builds of it already. Do we need more invincibility and get up from slug perks, especially combined?
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Like a lot of people here, i use a lot of perks you dont consider usefull. Most importantly self care. I know a lot of survivors consider it useless, but i dont share this point of view.
I usually play stealthy. I suck at looping, but i can juke a lot of killers. IF no pallets are availible (anymore), i sometimes have to take a hit, and then juke the killer and hide while he is searching for me, which all wastes his time as well as being looped. Now tell me, do i spend this time better selfcaring (because i encounter nurse calling rarly), or do i just hide, doing nothing, and then search for someone else to heal me, wasting both our time?
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The reason why killers are asking for strong survivor perks to be nerfed, is simply because the synergy of them is unfun to deal with.
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Answering what you said: are you really sick of people using only DS,Adren,BT or do you just want them to use these perk?
The problem is not really that they are adding more second chance perks, the problem is that you can use all those perks at once, having too many second chances in a match/situation or in that build.
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I am i killer main. I do not say anything about survivor perks except Object.
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You're just a meta player. Autodidact builds are godlike in swf teams.
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I 100% agree with boosting bad perks on both sides. I don't agree with the OP's list though. Lately I've been using Plunders and it's been amazing. It's especially good for me when I run Detective's Hunch with it. I usually pull a Rainbow Map so I make sure every totem gets broke basically every game.
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Ya it'd be like if every killer could put on 4 separate perfectly synergized pops. Survivors wouldn't have any fun. Pretty much what meta survivor perks are and why people don't want more second chance perks.
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I want to point out that you crossed Plunder Instinct and Ace in the hole. Both of those perks together gave me keys most of my games.
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I personally stray away from most survivor meta perks because I don't find them very fun to play with, but I do agree that the amount of "good" survivor perks is incredibly lacking. However, unless they do something about people stacking second chance perks like DS and Unbreakable, I can't be on board with bringing in the "next big thing".
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What's balanced about second chance perk energizing with perks that can punish killer's for doing what they are suppose to do?
idk I guess I'm too understanding and see that everything killer's do (besides toxic #########) is killer's doing their job
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I've found Plunders does that by itself. Honestly that perk is amazing. I have so many Rainbow Maps and Ranger Medkits stocked up from using it lately.
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i crossed out these perks because they're more farming perks and dont help on chases or doing the objectives.
make other perks viable and im using it. also im not a SWF player. once again not every player is playing in a SWF group.
wrong. you missed the point where i said "Synergized builds" and remember me, blood warden, overcharge and bitter murmur can work well with some builds. every good huntress who has a good aim is using bitter murmur do you tell me that they suck?
remember me and blood warden can be useful for engame. btw this is my opinion on good killer perks. you dont need to like it simple.
but you show me the MAIN problem in dbd as soon you do something its = you like this side more then the other. oh please grow up.
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The problem is this. The meta is required to stand a chance against the meta. When you have a high mobile killer running godly perks that show auras every few seconds, 2nd chance are not 2nd chance, they are required to have even a slight chance.
The meta will never change until more good perks are released.
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You crossed Dance With Me, but not Nemesis, even if both are useless on their own and need specific builds to make them work. Also, you didn't cross perks like Stridor, Iron Grasp, Surge, which I consider really bad for rank 1 killers, while also crossing perks like Deerstalker, which I would say is better than all these 3.
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The problem is not with strong perks, but how they synergize and how many second chances they offer. Look at killer. Pop and surge don't work together. Spirit fury and enduring are useless without the other. Blocked gens stop regressing. Overcharge doesn't force you to stay at the gen. Forever Freddy and legion were removed.
Dead hard can be reused, but haunted is only good for 60 seconds. Bt has no cool down, but thrilling does. Adrenaline is an exhaustion perk that ignores exhaustion rules.
If these new perks become the meta, it's because they will synergize.
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This thread should probably be closed purely based on the survivor perks you crossed out and the killer ones you didn't.
Seriously, how many times have you lost a game because of blood warden?
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i use Urban Evasion spinechill together yes i use SC some survivor don't want to heal me sometime i keep it as back up 4th slot random sometime i do just fine
remember people survivor easy mode
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I'm a bit confused about the part with we will make it and botany.
WWMI is 100% for 90s after the unhook, botany is 33% bonus the whole match (+ works on yourself as well) plus the medkit efficiency. WWMI sounds pretty neat in theory, but in my opinion botany is far superior. (just my opinion ofc :) )
Yep, always said that every surv plays the same, while killers synergize with different perks. If you want to talk about killer perk meta, you'll have to look at each individual killer and their perks. A lot of the time you can tell at least 2 or more perks of the killer just by knowing which killer you verse (example: huntress bbq, nurses, whispers, pop).
There are just some surv perks that are to strong if you combine them (ds +adrenaline/bt/unbreakable for example).
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Are you joking? I play a lot more survivor than killer, sorry to burst your attempted bubble. Most of my builds consist entirely of perks you crossed out and they do solid work. Survivor is pretty versatile build wise, especially if you keep in mind mindgames are just as important for survivors as killers. Not every perk needs to give an extra health state to preserve one or be worth running.
Also by your logic I think you may as well uncross a majority of the survivors perks if you think blood warden is niche enough to be worth using. Though to be honest most of them shouldn't be crossed out anyway.
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I think most us can agree that no perks need nerfs but a bunch need buffs.
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Dh for a free hit, new perk for endurance another hit and bt for another hit and ds to start it all over again adrenaline for another heal state...
Like you mix this in the meta any way you want healing happens often this effect will happen like crazy and give tons of risky plays safely making the killer feel all the more powerless
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Excuse me, what are you trying to say with Head On not being there? I feel personally attacked
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Yup, this.
👏👏👏
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I'd be laughing because I use restraint addons X3
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All this proves to me is that killer perks are underpowered, which is absolutely ridiculous given it's a 4 v 1 with no recovery on the killers side.
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I agree. Both sides need to be either weak or strong.
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The problem is (for me) that I see killers with meta loadouts and when they see a surv with any meta perks they call them toxic. It is a 2 way street. Yes surv meta can be super annoying when combined but so can killer meta perks. It goes both ways. I feel like people are very one sided
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I just finished a game as huntress a yui head oned me and saved the dwight for a bit longer. Did it again when I was searching for her. Still 4kd since it was 2 grey 2 purple and lullaby wasnt found until late game.
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I meant it as a joke, but I use head on a lot so I know that it can save games and teammates without a doubt. But honestly it sounds like that team you were facing were pretty bad.
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They got 2 gens done at least but yeah they weren't the best. I blame it on the greys since they don't know any better. I just thought of sharing since I don't see head on often even in low/mid ranks.
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You crossed off Plunderer's? You know how many times I've escaped because Plunderer's helped me pull a key out of a chest?
Meanwhile, Thanatophobia is terrible and the updated Ruin just forces survivors to gen rush. A lot of killer perks only work once or have a huge cooldown.
Stridor is pretty much only used with Spirit. Back when I did the Nurse Adept, even with Stridor I couldn't hear anything over the Nurse's wheezing. On top of that, Stridor confuses killers who don't normally run it because survivors sound closer than they are.
All strong survivor perks work on all survivors. Each different killer has certain perks that synergize well with their powers and other perks that don't. You can't really take a perk that's only used on one out of twenty killers and say it's a good perk. Not to mention, you say Quick and Quiet is a good survivor perk, but you leave out the perks that synergize well with it like Dance With Me, Head On, Lithe, and Lightweight. Stealth survivors use Lucky Break with Iron Will to hide themselves that much better. And the number of survivors I see still run Urban Evasion tells me it's not considered useless.
Survivors don't have to run second chance perks. They run second chance perks because the game was balanced around survivors taking two hits to go down; when that's changed with DS, BT, DH, Adrenaline, that swings things in the survivor's favor, especially when multiple survivors run those. Considering how ridiculously strong those perks are when all things are considered, trying to get survivors away from those by creating stronger perks becomes an obviously bad idea. It's never just about one survivor. There are four survivors, so if their perks are individually as strong as killer perks you might as well just take the killer out of the game entirely.
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Lithe, Alert, Distortion useless? Haha what?
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My usual builds are Open Handed/Bond/Kindred/Spine Chill or Autodidact/Empathy/Spine Chill/Inner Strength. You definitely do not have to use meta perks to win.
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I’m all for giving survivors great perks. But NOT the kind of perks to reward the survivor for missing up and punishing me for it. If a killer downs you, you got outplayed by him. You shouldn’t be able to just get up for free and on top of that tank a hit for free. That’s total bs in my opinion but oh well. Just gotta add a new annoying perk to my “play around list”.
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Mettle Of Man only got nerfed once tho. It’s original form completely nerfed almost every killer. New Mettle actually got buffed too, with protection hits being fixed.
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Just because you run those meta perks doesn't mean everyone else does. I used to be Rank 1 Survivor before I took a break from the game, and I'd run Treasure Hunting builds like Ace In The Hole / Plunderer's Instinct / Pharmacy / Urban Evasion. I'd win most of my games with at least 1 other person Surviving with me because I always pulled out a key or had good supplies to heal/repair our way through the match. And I strictly play solo.
Shoot I run crazy builds just for fun like Nemesis / Rancor / Endurance / Brutal Strength on Oni when I want to play Russian roulette with survivors. Mind you, I play as a Rank 1 Killer. Sometimes I'll depip because of an OP team, but then I'll demolish another team and become Rank 1 again while using wacky builds.
Side note: How the hell you going to cross out UE when by itself, it is a fantastic perk that evades a lot of Killer's powers and prevents a lot of chases?
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Problem is that Survivirs' 2nd Chance perks can be stacked and (worst case) be in use up to 4 times. Have you ever "tunneled" 3 Survivors at the same time and had to eat their DS because you were effective and they were stupid and reckless?
I, as someone who loves to play both sides, have no problem with the new perk. I hate it if someone picks me up and the killer just slaps me down again. It helps against the slugging meta or the end game noed slugging.
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this isnt even a fair comparison. Its just youre opinion on these perks. Theres a ton of killer perks that i would just get rid of on that list and some survivor perks i would add to the list. If made a meta red rank killer perk list it would include nurses,bbq,corrupt,discordance,enduring,devour hope,noed,ruin,infectious,make your choice,monitor and abuse, sloppy,pwyf,pop,save the best,whispers.tremors
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Yeah. Object is a pain for me as Freddy Main.
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The reality is, the game is fine. Perks, items, etc aren't necessarily broken. They're only broken because people choose to play a certain way. Now think what you will. I'm not a sweaty high rank killer or survivor who needs to justify his or her existence by only sitting in red ranks but I have 2 years of should experience in this game and seen so much of this game and have hundreds of hours logged.
I use to play alot in swf with my friends but over a very long time, I noticed alot of changes in them they grew considerably more toxic than before. Dcing was common, toxic builds were a must. And if you didn't play a certain way. You were booted.
It was horrible and I stopped playing for so long because of what happened not just to my friends but the game itself, the perks didn't break the game. People did. And that's something you can't balance around. So nerfing perks is the only viable solution, which surprisingly doesn't work unless you effectively completely change the perk in question. I still remember people calling self care op asf. When it really isn't. But I think self care got lucky and they actually hit the sweet spot with it.
Anyway, I think I drifted far enough away from the point. Just live with the game. Don't cry out just because a certain perk ruins your day because of the way you play. Adapt and overcome. As a wise and crazy man once said 'the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over, and over again. Expecting ######### to change'.
As for people moaning bout instant gens, that only works for a single gen. Stop complaining. Learn, and counter next time. Best thing about the meta. its very predictable.
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So you are suggesting that because someone else brings a perk, I can't use my own stuff? Sorry but no. I'm fine with getting DS'ed during the EGC. I either have enough kills or lost anyways.
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