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Thought's on LGBT characters
Comments
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I've seen all the fan art work already, but I guess it's ok 🥴
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they keep bringing this again & again.
Seriously, whoever wants or support this, stop for a few seconds and think, what difference or impact will it make or cause in the game?
Is the game restricted to heterosexuals? No.
Is the game buyable to everyone, without exceptions? Yes.
Has the DbD team said otherwise? No.
End. Be happy everyone. <3
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The only people who keep bringing this up are people who are against it (but weren't against it when heterosexuals were "outed", oddly enough). Most of the threads discussing this are by them.
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I could not care less to be perfectly honest.
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Okay, now I kinda really want to know if you are being serious the whole time or this is all a big troll attempt and you are actually wanting to show how stupid those anti-LGBT+ arguments are? (If you want to stay in-character just write a PM to me, i won’t tell anyone I promise)
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If you think anything I've said is "anti-LGBT" clearly you're only seeing what you want to see, so believe whatever you want.
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then what is the problem?
clearly someone who is not saying anything „anti-LGBT“ wouldn’t have anything against inclusion of LGBT themes in a game where there are already heterosexual relationships mentioned.
BHVR states they are doing this now because the community made them realize and reflect their behavior regarding sexual orientation. No threats involved, just a company realizing their mistakes and saying they will act accordingly.
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Yeah I'm sure you think you get to define everyone's thoughts for them. People involved in these conversations always do. You see "a company realizing their mistakes and saying they will act accordingly." I see yet another company held hostage by outrage culture. Isn't the first, won't be the last. But please, do make sure everyone pats themselves on the back for righting such a terrible wrong...in a computer game played exclusively by people privileged enough to think a lack of "inclusivity" is a "mistake."
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All I ever think about when fleeing from a killer is how big of Meg's dingdong is or if Dwight's marriage with his homosexual partner is doing well at home outside the realm of the entity - that's where the real gameplay is at, please make this number one priority! We need LGBT to video games where they don't belong and have zero logic to exist!
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They should not mention sexuality at all. Why the ######### does it even matter beyond a company trying to get brownie points?
You think the companies really care? If they did they'd make the pride flag visible on all their pfps, including Russia, china and the middle East.
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You are getting awfully personal quickly...
the mistake was they stated they don’t want to include any sexual orientation (which would have been totally fine) but they contradicted themselves and several heterosexual relationships.
also: you see „yet another company held hostage by outrage culture“ only because you want to see it. There was no outrage.
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Leave sexual orientation out of it. It doesn't matter.
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Neither do straights, yet here we are. Funny how the Nurse having a husband wasn't an issue all those years ago.
They already mentioned sexuality. That ship sailed long ago.
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Sure, would be fine. But then they would have to retcon some backstories and tome entries where sexual orientation is already stated.
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With that argumentation they should delete everything about backstory and lore.
why does it matter where Dwight worked or that Kate was a musician? Why should I know anything about the Nurse loosing her husband? Who cares about the Oni being Spirits great great great great great grandfather?
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Oh, is that so? No outrage culture huh? Well that's funny because about a year ago, there was a coordinated effort to exert influence over CD Projekt Red in the exact same manner. They didn't start kissing ass fast enough so there were thousands of twitter posts and news articles about the developers alleged transphobia, then another few months of the developer trying to mitigate the damage. But hey I'm sure that never happened right? Out of sight out of mind? All forgotten right? Wrong.
You know what? I'm not afraid to say this: Characters having heterosexual relationships is pretty much not even inclusive of anything. Human beings breed, they have kids, they continue the species. Do I have to add a little asterisk next to that statement to be inclusive of the ones that don't? Do I need an entire separate paragraph to make the ones that don't have such relationships feel extra super special about themselves? I guess these days everybody does.
Oh and, by the way, I do hope you realize that homosexuals and bisexuals have gotten married and had children. It happens all the time, and it happened even more often in the days they had to hide their sexual orientation. Fact of the matter is, being married and having kids can be 100% mutually exclusive to sexual orientation. I dare you to tell me I'm wrong.
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I am not telling you that you are wrong. I never stated the opposite though.
about the outrage: I was merely talking about BHVR and DbD, because that is the topic at hand.
you know what: Frank and Julie being super into each other didn’t have anything to do with continuing the species. That wasn’t the reason they mentioned this. Actually, if it were Frank and Joey, there should not have been any difference at all.
the mentioning of non heterosexual relationships should just be not an issue at all. Does not hurt anyone and is actually part of many cultures and individuals.
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I get that you're talking about BHVR, trust me. My point is that it happens and every marketing and public relations department in the world knows it happens. You know who wants to hold that hot potato? Nobody. So guess who folds? Everybody. The specter of that hangs over us, and as much as everyone likes to think it's all very innocent it's not. The average person doesn't pay attention to or care about Frank and Julie, especially since they're never even on screen together. The average person doesn't want to pay attention to any of this sexual orientation crap. But if they voice that they are quickly declared bigots or trolls.
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When the "average person" (not true, the majority of people are either supportive of or indifferent to all sexual orientations) only speaks out against non-heterosexual orientations, that's what it sounds like. There was no outrage about any sexual orientations from anyone until the devs mentioned LGBT. That's the only difference, that the devs mentioned LGBT. So you may pretend this has nothing to do with LGBT, but the fact is nobody gave a ######### until it was about LGBT. Everyone knows and can see what you're trying to do.
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"Majority of people are either supportive of or indifferent to all sexual orientations" eh? If that's true why do you feel so victimized and unincluded? 🤔 Could it be that, just maybe, there are people that go out of their way to make themselves victims? People that, when pushing for change, immediately declare themselves victimized the moment anyone resists that change? You say everyone knows and can see what I'm trying to do. That's equally true for you. This isn't about tolerance or inclusion because people are both tolerant and inclusive. It's about ego, it's about being publicly recognized or else.
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But what if BHVR genuinely wants to include LGBT+ themes in the lore? They are ever expanding on lore and go deeper in their backstories, especially since the introduction of the tomes. They now saw - fitting opportunity during pride month (yeah they ARE a business company) and announce it with rational reasonings. (This is all my theory btw does not have to be true)
Why would they not be allowed to do that? Because other companies were threatened by extreme LGBT+ activists?
the thing is: we don’t know what the real reasoning for BHVR was. We can only either assume something (what you are doing and I am in this post) or we have to take the only real evidence: their tweet.
of course you might be right and the outrage witnessed with other companies before could be the reason. But there could also be someone with a gun pointing at Cote that demands this. These cases wouldn’t be the right reasoning to include it. BUT including LGBT+ themes on its own is not something bad but something good. There is nothing harmful in it.
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This is the same situation when that one guy asked from the Gears 5 devs if the female protagonist of the story is lesbian. WHAT. DOES. THAT. HAVE. TO. DO. WITH. THE. GAME. There are games for the LGBT audience if they are looking to enjoy stuff like that. Having straight characters in a video game does not obligate the devs to equalize the ground by offering LGBT characters, they offer and make them if that's something they want to do out of their own decision.
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And that is whatBHVR is going to do: include LGBT because they don’t want to exclude.
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Actually in this special case you are the one using victimization (of the companies)
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Don't give me that line. I know exactly what prompted this. June 3rd DbD devs released LGBT acceptance emotes and were met with demands for more. "Not good enough" the community says. So to the drawing board, where they have to figure out exactly what compromises they have to make to avoid being publicly defamed by internet reactionaries. June 12th you get a public capitulation. I think my favorite part of scrolling down in to the replies to that tweet is a smug image titled "The heteros are upseteros." Real inclusive, that one.
So, like I said earlier to someone else, this is a circus. Another instance of twitter activists running roughshod over a media production studio. One more on the pile. One more failure to co-exist, as if we needed more.
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Oh really? How's that? Do you think I actually give a damn if a character in this game is gay or lesbian or whatever? If so you're even more disappointing as a dialogue partner than I thought. Keep jumping at shadows of bigotry. Bigots don't engage on forums like these, and they sure as hell don't try to reason with their opponent. Get a clue.
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Oh no, you don’t give me that line!
I scrolled through those comments. There were not many demands for more (actually the only demands were like add shirtless x etc). I have seen more hateful comments towards LGBT, by far!
but you decide to mention one post that doesn’t even fit your narrative.
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LOL where did I call you a bigot?
i was merely stating that you are victimizing the companies (which you do).
but again: you have to get personal.
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Yeah I mentioned it because it stood out and gave me a good chuckle, ironic as it is. Don't pretend like there weren't demands, the statement on the 12th directly references the "you referenced sexual orientation before" argument. Also take that last post I made with a grain of salt I'm getting a bit on the sleep deprived side and I'm pretty sure I heavily misinterpreted what you saying and didn't notice until after I posted. Gettin' real tired, sorry about that. 😴
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It's because the silent majority tacitly approves of the vocal minority's treatment of the LGBT community, like the torture camps children are sent to by their parents due to being LGBT. Raising awareness for these issues is important.
Nice deflection of the fact that people didn't have a problem with this until it involved LGBT, though.
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And I'll ask you again, what does being straight have to do with the game? Nothing, just like the entire lore. The devs are including it because they want to, yet people are here saying they shouldn't (because reasons) and blaming the LGBT community for "threatening" them or whatever.
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Okay, and where's the nearest one of those torture camps as compared to you? Or compared to BHVR's offices, for that matter? How about all the torture camps for people declared undesirables and dissidents in the Xinjiang annex region of mainland China? Do you champion their cause on the internet too? If you did, would you do it on a videogame forum? You're not a hero, don't act like one.
P.S. Arguing with someone by assuming their logic isn't a "deflection." In fact it's the total opposite so, y'know, maybe get some perspective.
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I am taking a bold step and say: that twitter comment was only made to give some people a good chuckle.
of course there were demands. Also extreme demands (there are extreme LGBT activists after all). But there were also demands for everything else. And more so for something else. Most comments were actually just positive without any demands
BHVR decided (not capitulated) their next step, they gave their reasoning for it and were totally rational about it. They were not more pressured into doing it than into explicitly excluding it. At the end they decided it on their own, knowing that they will please many and knowing they will also displease many.
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OK. I like that you assume that I'm not aware of that. Lol. But anyway, it's different when corporate pandering happens with minority groups. In the case of gay people: For those that are anti-gay, gays through media will often be the only gay people they knowingly have "access to" (There's a better way to phrase that, but I just woke up). If these are flaming stereotypes, which in media right now is like 99% of the cases, it paints the picture that all gay people are like that and kinda solidifies their anti-gay beliefs.
And those people don't represent me, either.
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People were saying they shouldn’t because BHVR said they will not do it. They contradicted themselves. That’s your (because reasons)
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You've yet to acknowledge that people didn't have a problem with the lore mentioning sexual orientations until it was about LGBT, which is why it looks like an anti-LGBT thing. Please do (or address the argument in some other way) so we can move on.
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This is exactly my point with stuff like this. Real gamers don't care about if their characters are straight, gay, lesbian, or whatever. Pushing that kind of thing is exactly what makes people on defence nowadays because we have seen what it does to video games. Devs are put on a leash by the most loudest minority group to push their agenda, not for the sake of enjoying the game more, but just simply to get what they want, to remind them that yes, they can change and control video games and make devs bend to their wishes and demands.
if devs really wanted to offer LGBT stuff out of their own desire, they would do that without having to hear the community ask for it. Now, if this was an adult game or a romance story, etc, then obviously the devs would have a good reason to make LGBT characters to reach a wider audience, but again, I remind you, DBD is not a game about sexuality, so why is this so important to some people to have such characters in the game?
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This is just a horror game, I don't understand why there would be a need for that. Sure it's nice that they added the LGBT discord emojis and all but I don't see any point in it in the game.
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I sure hope you're right about that twitter comment, since the only other possibility is an intention of direct antagonism that's not good for anyone. Regardless, you're definitely right about them knowing they'd please many and displease many. Good thing they chose to please the people that would tattle on them to the social justice brigade and displease the people that will just suck it up and deal with it or move on. I just really don't see how everyone is 100% okay with how all this operates and where it leads. It's pure "ends justify the means" mindset at work and it has long consequences.
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So now it's bad if they change their minds based on community requests?
"What it does to video games" is put a certain group on the defense. The outrage and backlash comes from that group and those who are swayed by them. It does nothing to affect the quality of video games.
If LGBT relationships had been treated just like heterosexual relationships were, most of the threads on the subject wouldn't be here, because nobody gives a #########. There'd be mentions in the lore (that these same people claim not to read or care about) and that'd have been it.
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It’s Lore/character backstory. No harm whatsoever and they are expanding on the lore ever more. Maybe they just don’t want to restrict themselves anymore, they already mentioned heterosexual relations, where is the problem in mentioning other relationships?
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You use the words "didn't have a problem." The truth is that they didn't care. They didn't pay any attention because they don't want to. So, LGBT comes in and not only cares but wants everyone to pay attention for "awareness." Are you starting to understand why there's pushback yet? People don't want preached to through a videogame any more than they want an ad to interrupt them while playing.
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They just made a small tweet. No video, no Q&A section devoted for it, nothing. No mention in the anniversary.
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Who said they wanted everyone to pay attention to this? Point them out, please. All I saw was one tweet from the devs and that was it.
Yes, I know why there's pushback, it's because one group (not LGBT) is making a big deal out of this and pretending another group (LGBT) is the one making a big deal out of it. The majority of the threads bringing up the subject are from people who "don't care" about or even actively dislike the idea, not from people who do like it.
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Yeah, that's true, but that doesn't really help ease the tension of the announcement because there's no certainty as to what's being done. It was vague and has just as great a chance to be a meaningless gesture as it does of being an invasive immersion killing disaster. Of course there are people that are going to be extremely concerned. How could they not be?
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Not even a forum announcement or any in-game announcement, for the record. If I hadn't seen all these threads complaining about it, I wouldn't know about it. I swear it's like these people want everyone to pay attention to it.
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Dude, you just talked about how "raising awareness" is so important on the same page as the post I'm quoting. You don't get to go back and pretend you don't want people to pay attention. Come on now.
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It wasn't vague at all if you'd been following the game's lore. They're gonna have mentions of relationships in the lore, just like they've been doing for the past 4 years. At most, maybe we'll get some paid cosmetics (because money) but that's it.
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Because nothing bad happened yet. as of now with everything we know about BHVR and their lore entries etc, they will just mention it like the Hetero relations before. Maybe they will add one char whose lore revolves around LGBT (but we had concerning lore before and it wouldn’t be that bad since there are actually people like this out there; I personally wouldn’t like that though) but those are just assumptions.
there is no need to make worst case scenario assumptions. If those will happen, let the outrage begin!
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Pay attention to the fact that they're confirming LGBT characters in the game. I said raising awareness in reference to issues like the LGBT torture camps, as I explicitly said.
Maybe you should go to sleep and come back when you're fully rested.
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