Ds should be added to the base kit
I know this sounds kind of crazy, if this were to happen(It won't) then the perk should be altered to exclusively counter tunneling and not just punish killers for getting around to another survivor before the 60 seconds was up. I Would make these changes if this were to happen.
-When another survivor is hooked DS deactivates, Unless the player is in the dying state(So killers can't just knock a survivor straight off the hook then hook the rescuer then hook the player who just got unhooked and have DS not work)
-The Stun from an successful DS would be reduced from 5 seconds to 4
-While the killer is stunned the survivor who inflicted the stun would gain a 20% haste status(for the 4 seconds)
-The DS timer decreases at double the speed when repairing a gen, and at 1.5 times the speed(50% faster) when healing a teammate. When outside the terror radius(The actual radius from the killer regardless of undetectable) it decreases 25% faster. When cleansing a totem it decreases 60% faster. When searching a chest it decreases 15% faster.
-If a player body blocks/takes a protection hit DS deactivates
Survivors shouldn't have to waste a perk slot just to counter tunnelling, Killers shouldn't be punished for getting survivors downed before 60 seconds after their last hook when they already hooked somebody else.
The Killer Side:
This is a significant survivor buff so should the killers get a buff if this were to happen? On one hand this survivor buff technically won't be a buff if the killer in a match doesn't tunnel, Which complicates things. This is a nerf to killers who tunnel, having it effect a killer who doesn't tunnel would be very rare.
I just hate tunnellers, you should too.
(This isn't realistically going to happen & despite only really affecting, tunnelling just isn't fun for either party and I think that it should be harder to tunnel people)
If you're a killer please don't tunnel, arguably some things justify tunnelling like object of obsession or things of that type. But you shouldn't tunnel somebody because they are able to loop.
(This is a crazy idea and I would much prefer seeing new perks that can counter tunnelling)
Comments
-
Add noed to base kit and I'd see it as fair tbh.
25 -
its crazy and luckily wont happen because then killer should get a compensation noed base kit for example? or something stronger also the perk would get nerfed if that happened
1 -
5s is important because it takes about 1-2s to hit the floor and start running so you only have 3s to get away. It should stay a perk, it is not strictly an anti-tunnel perk but it serves that purpose that no other perks do.
1 -
So killers get nothing because they should just git gud and not tunnel?
6 -
DS should remain a perk. Also, DS needs a nerf.
13 -
Yeah noed would probably get nerfed too.
Honesty most killers run NOED anyways, so..fair trade.
0 -
I'd rather have Devour Hope as basekit vs NoEd.
3 -
you should have said most unexperienced killers bring noed, luckily good killers usually dont like cheap tactics i find it sad taht survivors dont think the same when they bring 4 meta second chance perks everytime at rank 1 on top of that SWF, is what it is... ds should get nerfed aswell since is not an anti tunnel perk it w orks as an anti momentum perk to exaclty punish teh killer for doing too good, it should get changed againto work as an anti tunnel perk and not as is working right now.
1 -
The way I hypothetically set it up makes it so that you basically have to tunnel straight off hook for Ds to work, I mean if you tunnel directly off the hook then I think the 4 second stun and the survivor getting a chance at life without being tunnelled is the slap on the wrist killers should get.
I play killer and survivor quite equally and I feel really scummy if I tunnel right off the hook, I also know you know how easy it is not to tunnel directly off of the hook.
I will just add a bpdy block cancel to DS to the hypothetical changes because it just popped into my head while writing this
0 -
You can have DS in basic kit if I get BBQ & Discordance in basic kit.
4 -
Devour hope discourages camping so If it was to be introduced like that then tunnelling and camping would receive nerfs, everybody hates those 'Strategies' So it's not really a loss. If anything it would damage two of the most hated tactics which would be good.
If it was put into the base kit I think that speed boost would probably need to be moved to 3 tokens, the exposed status moved to 4 tokens and the Mori moved to 7 tokens(Extending the number of maximum tokens)
I tried to enact those changes to make it purely an anti-tunnelling perk above, if you read the first statement(It's big so I don't really blame you for not reading it)
0 -
I'd honestly take pop as basekit instead of discordance. Feel like it would impact the game more.
3 -
BBQ could easily fit into being in the killers' base kits, probably getting the BP bonus removed though.
Discordance would probably need to be changed, maybe to =>3 players and fewer seconds, or stay 2 or more survivors but change to 3 to 5 seconds of the gen being highlighted
1 -
Round these here parts, thems fightin' words.
2 -
Simply ds should work only on obsession, and it shouldn't change the obsession, also the stun should be 3 sec at all ranks, it's wrong the idea of blocking a killer for 60 sec for every fking survivor if there's an obsession in game, a Gen need 80 sec, 1 ds can literally cost 3 Gen to a killer (in exchange for a kill) this is wrong, especially if we consider the Gen rushing, where people keep pressing m1 at Gen ignoring everything else
1 -
This would be excessively abused
0 -
DS is an extremely strong perk.
if you want to have usage of it, equip it.
we dont need survivors to be able to have 5 meta perks equipped at once
4 -
So lemme gst this right, DS would be on 1 person per game, being the obsession and the stun would be reduced? If thats what you are saying i dont think thats too unreasonable. The fact is i havent had a game.in my past 10 games without 3 DSs in it so id gladly take 1 weaker one gauranteed.
Edit: @Zandrys98 comment because my phone glitched and it warped me to his post so j thought he was op
Edit 2: I straight up didnt realise i commented on this a while ago, wow im confused.
0 -
I very rarely see NOED nowadays in red ranks.
1 -
Honestly I want whispers to be basekit. That way we can give the Killer effects when Survivors are nearby.
0 -
I would rather have this in the game than the actual perk. EDIT: If I was going to give one perk to give to killers by default, it would be deerstalker, since the last survivor on the ground always annoys me, since I can't find them.
0 -
Killers can't always play nice, sometimes killers have no choice but to tunnel to have any chance to win.
If I'm playing against a strong team, but they have one weak link. Depending how the game is going I might be forced to tunnel the weak link out of the game.
If you're a red rank survivor and you find yourself consistently getting tunneled, there might be a reason to that. It might be due to your ability to loop , if you're at red ranks but don't know how to loop, then of course the killer will focus on you.
Good killers know not to waste too much time chasing a good strong survivor, so if you improve your looping you'll find yourself rarely getting tunneled.
Bad killers are the ones that mostly run NOED, are you even playing at red ranks? Low rank killers will tunnel, as they don't know any better.
2 -
Honestly bbq and wglf should already be in basekit. Wglf does nothing but give extra bp so i think it could do with a buff to make it a little more viable like similar to what bbq does to reaveal survs auras. Other than that i think they would be good for basekit.
1 -
We should have one week each year where every single perk is basekit
0 -
It literally just should not be 60 seconds. I don't get this comment:
You said "The way I hypothetically set it up makes it so that you basically have to tunnel straight off hook for Ds to work," but that's simply not true. If the whole thing is 60 seconds and only will deactivate from a protection hit or another survivor being hooked, what's to stop the survivors from still trying to make aggressive plays in front of the killer's face just because they have their stupid 60 seconds of mini godmode?
I don't even care if it was 60 seconds but the conditions need to be different. I think the most obvious way that it should be done, if we want to counter tunneling, is to even leave it at 60 seconds if you want, but make it deactivate when the survivor does interacts with anything that progresses the game more (generators, totems, etc.) If you're being tunneled, then you shouldn't be doing anything of that sort, and if you are confident enough to hunker down on a generator or something then you're probably not being tunneled. It also should deactivate when getting into a locker so people can't just do that stupid locker crap where they force you to grab them just for you to eat the DS.
The only way I would be fine with it being base kit is if this was the case: it deactivated in pretty much any case you aren't being tunneled. It will still be there if you need it for when you're being tunneled, but you wouldn't be able to abuse the crap out of it like it's an offensive perk.
Another thing I want to add: there's a lot of controversy around the thing that Peanits said, which I'm pretty sure is "It's not exclusively an anti-tunneling perk -- that's an idea that came from the community" or something like that. There's still obviously a lot of people who think it's a perk to fight tunneling, which I can't blame them for thinking. I've always thought of it like that especially because they added the condition of needing to be hooked in order for it to activate. So even if we're saying that it should be used for more than fighting tunneling, there's absolutely no way that it should be 60 seconds with how easy it is to use.
0 -
Just had my first match against DS abusers. Glad to eat 4 DS in one game because it can be done by 4man swat teams.
0 -
Yea. That would solve 3 problems.
1: genrushing: a secondary objective.
2: anti tunnel is good.
3: both sides get a huge buff
0 -
I'm rank one and get noed every game.
1 -
The stun is already 4 seconds, the drop animation takes one of them. And a 5 second stun is nothing. I get stunned and down them 10 seconds later. I stun the killer and get downed 10 seconds later.
0 -
fs pop and bbq should be base kit too while we're at it
1 -
i mean, you could just indirectly buff DS by making an obsession spawn randomly base kit
0 -
That would be a buff. The less amount of time between the notifications = more info. That's why people don't buy discordance past tier 1
1 -
The BP of BBQ and WGLF could be basekit
0 -
Yes please
1 -
Good survivor will not get downed within 20 seconds after DSing the killer.
1 -
I know, I mean that in order for it to trigger it would be harder, but it would trigger more often when 3/4 survivors were on a gen.
This way it's actual use is harder but the info you get when it is in use is better
0 -
I also mentioned body blocking.
and when not being chased by the killer it shouldn't be 60 seconds long because it goes down faster when you do things
0 -
That's a pretty dumb assumption. What if you are in a dead zone ? What if Nurse, Huntress, Spirit ?
I mean I get where you come from but don't say that like it was some sort of ineffable truth.
1 -
I could get behind this idea if it lasted for like 15 seconds or something. Also touching a gen or being healed basically means it should instantly be turned off. Hard no on protection hits giving DS.
0 -
Depends on the map, and if you're in a dead zone. If you're in the middle of nowhere, how can you live?
0 -
Like I said: "If the whole thing is 60 seconds and only will deactivate from a protection hit or another survivor being hooked," so yeah. I realized you said body blocking. I still don't think that makes a difference.
And even decaying at 2x speed (on a generator, as you put it) it still would be too long. It would realistically be more than 30s long still because you wouldn't be progressing it 2x until you actually get on the generator, so you're looking at still 30+ seconds of the same stupid annoying effect. I don't care if it's 60s long, because like I said it should stay a longer duration like that if we're making it exclusive to getting tunneled (like you seem to be suggesting.) I just think if it stays that long it needs to disappear the moment you aren't being tunneled, which would be getting into a locker, getting on a generator, getting on a totem, maybe not healing (because you're around an ally who might presumably be trying to protect you), but you get the point. You aren't being tunneled at that point, so it needs to shut off. Even if it were to work how you're saying where it had a 60 second timer you suggested ideas for it to be specifically against tunneling. If you're getting on a generator or doing a totem, you aren't being tunneled. You also could just literally not do any of the things you listed would speed up the process, and instead still try to be the annoying douche survivor that's sitting there trying to click their flashlights and be irritating to the killer. That way your timer still stays at 60 seconds, you still have your mini god mode, and it can't be deactivated unless you just screw up your flashlight blinds (because you wouldn't be taking a protection hit and the killer wouldn't be allowed to hook another survivor.) I just don't think it should be allowed to be used while you're not being tunneled, and the killer just happens to run back into you (which you yourself said was the point of these suggestions.) That all could easily happen in 30 seconds, and that's if the survivor was immediately back on a generator the moment they got off the hook. Is that still not stupid for the killer to deal with?
So like I said before, only way that's ever going to work is if the whole effect deactivates the moment the survivor progresses the game in any way or hops into a locker so they can't force a stupid locker DS grab. Iron Will arguably isn't as strong as DS, but with the recent audio from the Silent Hill patch being so buggy, it's like every survivor had Iron Will as base kit. That one effect alone is already incredibly strong. If they added DS as base kit the way you're saying, just like they unintentionally gave every survivor Iron Will, then the game just wouldn't be playable at that point unless you're facing ultra potatoes.
0 -
No. First of all what would replace the DS that Laurie has? Secondly, adding the most annoying perk in the game as basekit is downright criminal. Imagine old ruin as basekit, or moris as basekit. Those shouldn't happen.
0 -
Pyramid head literally has a Mori in his base-kit, and this is not the same as old ruin.
Old ruin or even just ruin now has an unpreventable impact unless you cleansed the totem instantly the minute you entered a match.
Ds and the changes I made(While not flawless) specifically target tunneling as a method, meaning a killer who doesn't tunnel doesn't have it effect them. (Although I would add a trait to Object where it disables DS but then buff object a small bit because of that.)
Also the devs have more perk concepts then they know what to do with, and if they didn't the community does. They can literally just choose one of the perks that would fit Laurie well
0 -
" I just think if it stays that long it needs to disappear the moment you aren't being tunneled, which would be getting into a locker, getting on a generator, getting on a totem, maybe not healing (because you're around an ally who might presumably be trying to protect you), but you get the point. You aren't being tunneled at that point,"
Getting in a locker, cleansing a totem or getting on a gen or healing an ally doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. The killer can move away from the hook, then you can get rescued get on a gen and then the killer can show up and immediately start going for you again.
If it were to last a longer time like 80-90 seconds(I'm not sure exactly the time increase you meant), and if it were to disable if they went on a gen, totem, enter a locker, etc, then it would discourage them from doing so.
My version also discourages the same thing, however when the maximum mine would last is 60 seconds, it means that even if they don't do anything it will only last 60 seconds, that is still a lot. With your version(Although I'm assuming the time increase you meant) you could be searching for survivors with ages then find the DS user and still get Ds striked after 80 seconds
0 -
I simply disagree with "Getting in a locker, cleansing a totem or getting on a gen or healing an ally doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled." PLEASE share with me an example, other than when you have DS, that you would say "Oh shoot, the killer is coming back to tunnel me! Better hop on a generator/totem/in a locker!" I'm pretty sure you aren't going to be able to tell me very many.
If you do any of those things, you likely feel safe enough to do it (because you don't know the killer is around if they even are.) If the killer leaves the hook, then you aren't being tunneled. That just means he came back that just means he came back and you didn't get away fast enough. Even if he was the kind of person that would tunnel, that's why you don't heal somebody up, do a generator, do a totem, or get into a locker. So, because the killer is "tunneling," you want him to have to deal with the perk. That's the whole point of my suggestion: it makes the survivor choose either to have the protection from being "tunneled" or get to progress the game -- not both at the same time, which is what people are doing right now in order to use the perk in a more aggressive playstyle. The whole point of making it deactivate when somebody commits to doing some objective is to discourage them from doing so if they think they're going to get tunneled.
It doesn't matter if the one person isn't doing anything with their DS, even if it lasts up to 60 seconds. What I'm saying is that with your suggestion, they still have their 60 seconds of immunity and don't have to worry about losing the effect if they want to get on an objective. I simply just disagree with that, because that's exactly what makes the perk so overwhelming in the first place. People just use it to do things right in front of the killer's face, which isn't what the case should be. I don't even think it needs any time extension. You're recommending it be base kit when it's already arguably the best survivor perk that exists in the game. The least you could do is compromise on that part. Survivors don't need 30+ seconds of immunity (and I say 30+ knowing that it's always going to much quite a bit more than that) base kit. Also, I never said to make it 80-90 seconds. I don't know where you got that. And you already go searching for other survivors and get DS'd after 55 seconds with the current version. That's why it needs to cancel out if people progress the game.
I don't know how else to word it to you other than that: Survivors don't need immunity from being picked up base kit. If it's going to remain as strong as it is, it definitely needs to remain a perk. I would only ever be okay with it if, like I said, it cancelled when you progress the game. That's the only way you're going to "not just punish killers for getting around to another survivor before the 60 seconds was up." As I said, make the timer progress 2x faster, it still won't matter. Even 30+ seconds of a stupid effect like that isn't reasonable with how fast games go. Either make it cancel out like I said if you're going to give survivors a strong base kit perk, or give killers something of about equal power. I wouldn't be opposed to survivors having DS base if I got to have Devour Hope, or Make Your Choice, or even an ivory mori. Just please for the love of god don't give survivors that stupid mini god mode base kit. That's one of the worst ideas I've heard.
Also:
- PH's execution doesn't work the same as a mori. It can't completely bypass both the 2nd and 3rd hook states, only the 3rd and final one.
- You said Ruin is unpreventable but name a way to prevent it in literally the same exact sentence.
- It still would affect killers who don't tunnel because killers would still have to deal with stupid DS protection, allowing for survivors to just do things right in front of their face still. Talk about "unpreventable impact."
0 -
"Oh shoot, the killer is coming back to tunnel me! Better hop on a generator/totem/in a locker!"
Tunneling isn't always instant. The killer can leave the hook to find another survivor instead of camping and then the survivor on the hook can get unhooked and...
- Get healed by a teammate, and then heal that teammate, disabling DS.
- If you have solidarity you want to heal a teammate before you get healed(Although nobody uses solidarity so that situation will almost never occur)
- They might not want to get slugged out of DS and thus after getting off hook and seeing the killer marching towards them might Jump in a locker, to force DS to be used or for the killer to leave.
- You may want to get in a locker if you have Inner Strength
- You may have resilience and instantly get on a gen after getting off the hook, that doesn't mean the killer won't go for you over all others the minute they sees you.
- You can do the same thing as the last one if you have second wind
- You can also instantly get on a gen anyway, whether it's a wise decision or not
- If There is a NOED totem then you want to cleanse that before you bother healing
- If there is a Devour Hope totem with 3 or more tokens then you want to cleanse that before you heal
I hope when you say a few examples those will suffice.
"If the killer leaves the hook, then you aren't being tunneled."
Actually if the killer leaves the hook it means you aren't being camped, but I get that you mean if they leave they are searching for somebody else.
If they look for somebody else they might not be trying to tunnel, but if they still continuously down you & only you then it is still tunneling. Especially if when you get unhooked they instantly go for you instead of the person who unhooked you.
You can search and fail but passing up another survivor for the one who got off the hook is tunneling!
To clarify I know that the killer who leaves the hook and comes back will also sometimes aim for the unhooker.
But leaving the hook doesn't mean the killer isn't tunneling.
"That's the whole point of my suggestion: it makes the survivor choose either to have the protection from being "tunneled" or get to progress the game -- not both at the same time"
Survivors shouldn't have to choose between this. You shouldn't have to not do gens, heal your teammates or cleanse totems just so that you don't get bonked on the head with a hammer and thrown on a hook again straight after the last time. You're also putting the survivor's team in a frustrating position where their teammate isn't helping them in anyway and is forced between standing around and doing nothing to be protected from something that shouldn't happen in the first place or actually do stuff and help the team but then have the killer whack you over the head with a spoon and put you on the hook instantly.
0 -
Well it differs depending on what you do.
Also I said that protection hits would disable Ds not give it
0 -
I simply disagree.
0 -
...I mean... to what part?
All of it?
I mean I can agree to disagree but somethings I said are just facts
0 -
"Tunneling isn't always instant."
Your whole argument is based on this. I beg to differ. I personally believe that it isn't really tunneling if the killer is completely leaving the area and giving you room to breathe. Just because he comes back, I wouldn't consider it "tunneling." That's just the killer coming back because he heard a loud audio notification and plenty of killers will happily go for the unhooker if they have a choice between the two.
1
