Why is killer toxicity forbidden/shamed to talk about?
I've noticed if anyone DARES to talk about killers being toxic like nodding, tunneling, camping etc etc its always met with "Just get good! Lol you just can't play. Someone just got killed." etc etc but when people talk on survivor toxicity its always praised and met with mountains of agreements. And no im not saying one side is more toxic than the other im just wondering why we can't talk on both? (EDIT: This thread is already extremely mixed in views ahh)
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I have not noticed anything like this. Toxicity seems to be spoken about more or less equally. If anything there's a slight bias towards people talking about killer BM. How did you come to this conclusion?
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Have you not seen the DS threads?
lol people bash on whiny killers all the time, telling them to get good, slug, stop tunneling, stop whining and adapt.
Just check out any DS thread, you'll probably find me there as well. =]
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Because tunneling and camping are strategies and not in themself toxic behaviour. But since a lot of survivors dont like it, they claim it to be.
The nodding, i dont know, if might be a toxic intend, as well as hitting a hooked person.
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Indeed! in a game about slaughtering others is natural being toxic and it is fun, I would even reward toxicity with a new category ·TOXICITY·:
- tbag or killer nodding head in terror radius = 100 BPs
- Pointing at killer after being pallet'd = 300 BPs
- bodyblocking cause wiggle out = 500 BPs
- etc etc etc
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Mmm DS and toxic stuff are different issues I've noticed also hi friend its Chrissy I just had to make a new one since I forgot the password to my other account but I'll have it back next weekend ;o
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Well just overall looking at some various killer toxicity threads and end game messages/chats I've just seen a large killer bias when it comes to defending toxicity.
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Killers are in the constant victim mentality and refuse to accept that most of them are just bad at the game.
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I've never seen anyone say being toxic as survivor is a good thing.
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It's not? I've brought it up before, even wrote a story thread on the subject and it was well received by the commenters.
EDIT: In case you want to read that thread, here you go - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160370/story-thread-its-killers-like-this-who-give-everyone-a-bad-name#latest
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I agree with bigbrainmegmain survivors say also way too much ''get good''.
You should have seen the reactions of survivors when ruin got reworked, it was litterly all the time: But ruin is just a perk for bad killers, or :git gud.
And in DS threads its also a lot of the time these comments.
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Toxicity is a construct that you choose to believe. It's really subjective. Some people let minor things tilt them way too hard. To me, the following things are really not worth getting upset about.
- Survivors teabagging, or killers nodding. Whatever, it's just some dumb animations.
- Survivors and killers using their perks, items, and add-ons to the best of their ability. This is what they are for. Moris and keys are sometimes a bridge too far and need to be addressed by the game developers, but it's stupid to get mad at someone for using a legitimate game mechanic that has been made available to them.
- Flashlights stuns. This is the intended use case of this item.
- Looping and pallet stuns. This is an intended gameplay loop.
- Survivors fixing gens quickly. This is their goal.
- Killers slugging to avoid Decisive Strike. It's counterplay. This is just how it is, for as long as this perk functions in this way.
- Killers defending a 3-gen situation. As long as they are not outright refusing to take opportunities to chip away at survivors, this is the right play.
- Killers guarding their kills when all gens are done. What else do you reasonably want from them in this case?
- Killers soft-camping hooks when other survivors are obviously in the area waiting to go for a save (which you can tell by seeing them or their scratch marks).
These things are not toxic. They are literally what make up the game, Dead by Daylight, that we have all chosen to play.
On the other hand, killers get a lot of finger-wagging here because of certain extremely frustrating things that they are capable of unilaterally dictating the game with. Namely: tunneling a specific survivor to death, or face-camping a hook. These two actions rob one or more players of the intended game flow, while also being detrimental to the killer (because they will likely lose gens and other kills, and BP/rank). The game currently doesn't do enough to deter killers from these actions and/or reward them for not doing those things.
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Thats just how this Forum works.
Also quite common: Killer does something where Survivors would be called out for - "You dont know what the Survivor did before". Like, just assume that the Survivor was BMing the Killer or anything. Could be impossible that Killer players are dicks as well.
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Tunneling and camping isnt toxic.
Looping and flashlight/pallet saves are not toxic too.
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I love it getting called Toxic if i loop the killer for some gens but i love it even more if i get called toxic if someone trys to do the DS locker tech and i just stand there and wait it out.
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There does seem to be a bias. Whenever someone mentions killer toxicity there will be people there to play white knight - “well the survivors were probably toxic first” / “well they probably had a match against a toxic SWF before you and were just venting frustration”
I haven’t seen many people try to justify survivor toxicity with a “well you probably deserved it”, most people agree it’s annoying and uncalled for. I think it’s because survivor toxicity is more common than killer toxicity.
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I haven’t seen many people try to justify survivor toxicity with a “well you probably deserved it”
Then you just haven't been here long enough, trust me.
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You must be new here.
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The same persons also consider flashlight saves and head on toxic.
To be fair i meet way more toxic survivors than toxic killers.
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I don't meet much toxic players anymore, but I do meet the occasional toxic survivor, so I gotta agree with you on that.
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Yes it can be frustrating being tunneld or looped, but it's not toxic I don't know why some say that. It's just playing the game.
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I also dont understand the people who say ,,genrushers" are toxic. I mean, its the survivors objective and they just work as efficient as possible. Nothing wrong with that even if it can get frustrating as a killer.
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Here we go again defending killer toxicity as "legit", while there were never anyone defending survivor toxicity. Double standards at its best again. And BHVR just let it be to cater to killers toxicity promoting this even more with their new tunneling killer. Pretty good job again.
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Well whenever a ds thread pops up. You will see someone going and calling all killers, crybabies, whiners, ect ect. Throwing anyone who has ever played a killer before into the same group. For rather than speaking in a civil tone and explaining things reasonable, to possibly get people to change their mind. It's simply easier to throw everyone into the same group and insult them all. Which only leads to digging deeper, maintaining their original position or more strongly believing in it, due to seeming like they have personal been attacked rather than being talked out of it with reason. Like you could ask what the point of ds, what is the perk meant for, to stop tunneling or is it meant for another use and someone will simply just call all killer crybabies, whiners ect ect ect. That or look at mori threads, you will see people call others toxic for merely using a mori or call killers that tunnel off first hook for a mori, toxic.
Which you really see both sides being called toxic or being shamed with labeling everyone as being x. Like oh it toxic for a survivor to blind a killer at a pallet. Like i'm sure if you ask ten different people, what is toxic in this game or bad sportsmanship. You will get easily a dozen or so different answers.
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Here is the thing about "gen-rushing". Some SWFs will intentionally coordinate to split the gens between the four of them. The killer obviously can't be in 4, 3 or even 2 places at once so even by pressuring survivors off gens it can still swing in their favor if the chases don't end quick. Experienced survivors will obviously know the routes to allow chases to go on as long as possible and even if you break chase to tag another survivor, you still have two other people working on generators.
The common response to this strat is, "Doing objectives" or "We are suppose to do gens".
What gets ignored with this response is that it they rely on a strategy that makes it difficult to score or even pip. The devs on more than one occasion have lowered the amount of points you can earn from completing a generator by yourself to sort of discourage this, but they do it anyway.
In my opinion it is kind of comparable to a killer camping/tunneling one survivor. Sacrifice some points to quickly help sway the odds in your favor even if nobody gets anything to show for it in the end. Coordinated survivor groups know this, but never want to admit it. I even killed an SWF attempting this strat with one of them lying about "I pip'd anyway", only to see on stream they did not. Being in a group will sprout over confidence and toxic behavior to go a long with it.
As far as killers being toxic, they don't have as many accessible options when it comes to being toxic compared to Survivors. Many survivors will be toxic right from the get go and freely do so with the large assortment of unused pallets. Killers don't have opportunities to be toxic until mid to end game.
Then we have killer strategies that can be perceived as toxic, but are often done as a sort of last resort. Camping/Tunneling a survivor from the get go can be toxic, but mid way or end game sometimes it is the killer's only chance. Then we have NOED which some end game builds revolve around. Survivors will call the killer crap or toxic just for having it equipped even if the killer wins before even getting a chance to use it.
Killers being toxic is usually circumstantial. Examples being..
Pretending to take the last survivor to hatch and then dart straight towards a hook.
Watching a survivor crawl towards a hatch and then closing it right in front of them at the last second
Downing all the survivors and forcing them to bleed out
Spinning a survivor while taking to them to the hook
Face Camping.. which of course requires the killer to catch and hook the survivor.
Nodding up and down at a slugged or hooked survivor.
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You should note that while i play both sides, i play solo survivor about 70%+ of the time. And yet, survivors are much more toxic than killers can ever be. Because they cant just be toxic to the killer, they can be to the other survivors as well, and many are.
But it seems you aren´t really intrested in others opinions, based on your post i quote. It just has nothing to do with daring, it has to do with survivors calling thing they dont like toxic even if they aren´t. (this is someone killers do as well, while genrush is a think in my opinion, its not toxic).
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Survivors are also mostly the ones who instigate toxic behavior in the post game chat, their stream, leaving steam comments, etc.. no matter how the killer plays.
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I think you should elaborate more about killer toxicity. Tunneling, camping and slugging are valid strategies that a killer can choose to adopt. On a personal level, I don't think they are fun, but sometimes is your last resource when dealing with a almost lost match. I've lost count of the matches that I won on the last generator just by changing my strategy to full slugging and proxy camping. For me, toxicity would be if you slug everybody and let all bleed out to death.
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Most things killers do that I think are scummy can be explained away with "it's a strat" more or less.
Teabagging, sweaty builds, overuse of flashlights/keys, and finger pointing are scummy and legal too. I don't do it. I want both sides to have fun.
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Because there's no single definition of the word "toxic", and considering they're all perfectly legal claiming all forms of camping/tunneling or whatever is toxic is like a killer claiming looping or getting flashlight saves is inherently toxic. And that's certainly not something everyone agrees with. Meanwhile most would probably agree that pointlessly acting like a massive dickhead in post-game chat is bad, regardless of if they'd use the word toxic for it or not.
There are certainly people that seem to think "their side" can't do anything wrong unprovoked ever or something though. You see it both ways in threads where survivors or a killer did something trashy, there's often posts that boil down to "You probably deserved it 🙃" no matter if there's anything that implies the OP did anything or not.
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This forum is killer leaning, not as much as before but the bias is present in a lot of posts.
I have seen a lot of killer mains here with an obnoxious victim mentality that just gets unbearable after a time. "Oh we carry this game while evil survivor mains destroy our game and the mega corporation BHVR AKA the literal devil oppresses us". Seriously, it's tiresome.
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I believe most people would identify toxic behavior performing actions for the sole intention of being malicious towards the opposition or just other people in general. Actions that have no real bearing on progressing through the gameplay.
For example using a flash light to save someone isn't necessarily toxic (that is one of it's uses), but flicking it off and on to taunt the killer is. I knew a survivor main who would set it to the scroll wheel for that sole intention. Slugging two survivors and allowing one to bleed out that you can't find isn't toxic as allows them to get hatch, but letting two survivors bleed out together is.
As in my previous post, I listed a few ways a killer can partake that can legitimately be toxic, but they are all circumstantial. Because they are circumstantial, survivors are less likely to see it in action.
Also I find it interesting what thottiepippen stated about "most things killers do I find scummy". Is it scummy because it was intentionally malicious or is it scummy because made the game more difficult for you?
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Yeah same thing gen rushing is frustrating but not toxic.
Hitting hooked survivors is a bit toxic just like t-bagging, but the really toxic thing in this game is evil messages after the game. I don't care that much what people do to me in the game but the trashtalk is just too much sometimes.
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Exactly this, there's annoying in game things like hitting on hooks, t bagging after stuns, clicky clicky obnoxiousness, but what is really truly toxic is post game trash talking. Survivors can even be "toxic" to each other in match by sandbagging, unhook spamming, hook farming, and running around dropping every pallet, yet so few people will even bring up those actions in discussions about toxicity.
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