General Discussions
General Discussions
CAGES OF ATONEMENT are inconsistent
What is the point of Cages of Torment counting as a hook stage for sacrifice purpose but not counting as a hook stage for anything else? This decision makes this killer SO inconsistent! A lot of good and bad perks for both killer and survivors got instantly nerfed to the ground while playing with/against him.
BBQ, Pop, Devour Hope, Dying Light, Huntress Lullaby, Blood Warden, Make Your Choice, Furtive Chase
DS, BT, WGLF, We'll Make It, Deliverance, Kindred, Second Wind, Off the Record
Comments
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The actually cages (not = hook) is the most unhealthy mechanism for the game!
Sure a killer need a special power, but these power shouldn’t have such a big impact on a match. It makes a lot of perks useless especially on survivor side, while the killer can still run pop & co because he can decide when he hooks and when he use his cages. A survivor doesn’t has the choice.
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And that's the risk of it. PH breaks the Meta better than Freddy by using a Power that instantly "hooks" people. It's a fun change because it requires you to run new and creative builds. I don't really see what the issue is.
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*laughs in Head On build*
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As someone who mostly plays survivor I very much disagree with this.
A killers unique abilities and traits should absolutely affect a match to a great extent, it's what prevents a largely repetitive game from becoming stale.
The killer doesm't have as much choice over hooking and caging as it seems either, caging can only be done if you're tormented which isn't extremely difficult to avoid so in that case the killer doesn't have a choice. So I guess in a way the survivors does have a choice whether theyre caged or not, even in a chase.
When a survivor is caged even, they are never cages near the killer so as long as survivors aren't all clustered in one area which isn't a good idea in general anyway or don't delay in rescuing then it's difficult for PH to tunnel and camp them. I think it's a fair enough perk trade off given how strong pop and bbq are for killer on the same level as bt and ds.
Even if he does tunnel or camp cages, so can every killer and it should just be treated as any other killer, ignore do gens and leave. It sucks for the person being camped but there is nothing else you can do really.
Everything being said I do think it's extremely hard to run this killer so for me anyway I am worried for when people learn to use him well
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Unless you're trying to PO a Killer with a Head On/DS wombo combo or you're in a SWF's, I've never found Head On to be that useful honestly.
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They already mentiond this several times. It counts as progression for the sacrifice, but it's not being hooked therefore wont be a trigger for hook or unhook perks. So like Plague you will have to learn different perks to use.
The only perks I would actually like being changed for the cage are Second Wind and WGLF
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It's honestly BS that he gets an instant hook + counter to so many perks + no kobe attempts. Some part of that combination needs to go and it needs to go yesterday.
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Useful? No.
Incredibly fun? Yes.
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I would say Kobe attempt should remain.
He's probably the first ever Anti Perk Killer for both sides. They expanded on Plagues limitations for perks and made it for both sides. It's a interesting concept that I would like to see how it plays out in the future.
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He counters Killer perks too. And we're basing everything off the fact that he has to get you tormented first to be caged. It's not impossible to not be tormented. And if there is an excellent PH player, you can still use your perks, but only once.
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The issue is: it's inconsistent with the entire game.
BBQ and Pop are the most common killer perks since ruin nerf, making his power not activate Pop makes him a trash tier killer. "hurdur but you can just hook people" so, I must not use part of his power in order to use the perks? What is the point?
DS, BT, We'll Make It and Deliverance are perks that you see all the time and they are literally useless against this killer. It's not hard to imagine a build with all this 4 perks. My Claudette, for instance, usually runs DS + BT + We'll Make It. Hell yeah, playing with 1 perk!
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Wow a killer that shakes up the meta. Gotta nerf that, we've been keeping it stale since 2017 and we're not going to stop now.
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wow, your common sense is astonishing. keep the good job, your opinion is really unique and big brain
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I didn't talk about meta once. Read the stupid post or don't reply.
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Correction: you're playing with 1 perk at most 1/20th of the time, since there's 20 killers. Right now everyone's playing the shiny new toy, but in a couple weeks we'll be back to the usual roster spread. And even then it only doesn't work if the PHead player is waiting until the person is tormented to down them...which...is an incredibly poor choice on the killer's part. You down asap. If they happen to be tormented, you have the choice. Anything else is inefficient and hurts their point gain/score/pressure/etc.
It's kinda like how OOO is completely useless against a Wraith who stays cloaked when not actively chasing someone, but absolutely ruins Freddy since when you're asleep he has no TR, and how Spine Chill counters stealth killers but Doctor laughs at the perk. Same kind of deal, just on a more extreme scale - but crucially the extreme scale is a situational thing in the first place.
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Every single of Steve teachables are countered by PH power. 😂
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@aregularplayer Unlike some other people I run many different builds and don't rely on few perks in every match I play. Also you've named most used meta perks so you do actually talk & complain about meta perks beiing not-meta against him.
Maybe start using more perks and don't rely on a few so much ? Having a killer that shakes things up is exactly what DBD needed.
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This is still a problem. He will become Legion tier of hate. Remember when all Legion games lasted 3 min at most because everybody hook suicided? Well I remember because I'm main solo and people just suicide because who cares about others? The difference here is that at least people can't hook suicide because (SURPRISE) this killer also makes it impossible for people try to kobe.
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Alright if cages are going to trigger killer perks then their going to trigger survivor perks too =) cages are fine the way they are besides the problem of ph being able to body block them
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I have bad news for you: I've been playing perkless since last week. If you don't believe, have a look at my discussion "I give up". It's funny how your assumptions couldn't be more wrong.
I repeat: I'm talking about ONE killer breaking SEVERAL perks from both KILLERS and survivors. Did you finally understand my point?
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You also must not use part of his power in order to use the power. Any survivors that pull a Survivor out of the cage, will lose their Tormented state, and you'll have to Torment them all over again. You can't just mindlessly Cage people, or you'll be unable to cage them later, when you actually need to cage them. Gotta' be strategic with it. Sometimes that'll mean getting a hook, and that's when you can use your big boy meta perks, if you really think as Killer that can avoid many of the most Meta Survivor Perks, really needs to be able to use BBQ or Pop every single time hook happens.
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Not really..not if your not getting perk carried
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This is exactly what it should happen. If you are PH using Pop you will only use final judgement because using cages will hurt you. That makes no sense! Also, a killer nerfing already bad perks like Steve's is BS.
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The number of survivors who handily beat me last night despite me caging, and the number of survivors saying they had fun playing against me, even in a win (hell, the one I got his adept we were chatting in a very friendly manner about the match and how we felt about it until Steam Maintenance kicked us out) say otherwise. If he was destined to become original Legion levels of salt mining, I don't think I'd be seeing the amount of friendly discussion I have been in my matches as him.
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teleports cage I front of survior doing gen across the map upstairs.
Save, heal, gen before I could reach them
Thanks cage.
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Hooking a tormented survivor will make him lose the tormented state? I only played 5 matches with this killer and I'm pretty sure I didn't hook anybody in this state, so I have no idea...
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Don't forget the fact that the killer sees cage's auras and they usually spawn close to other survivor and not always this far, so a tunelling killer WILL go there just to "patrol" if you know what I mean
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Then it's even more pointless for you to complain. New killer = new mechanics. There were very very few introductions of new features in DBD during it's development that didn't involve new killer. New killer is how DBD creates new features so PH pretty much disableing most of the meta perks is in line with all previous development decisions.
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Well, I'm not complaining for personal advantage, I'm complaining for the game health. You are right, this is pointless.
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Leave game's health in hands of devs. They know far better then anyone on these forums.
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No it doesn't if you play him right. Do you use Demo's shred for every attack? Or every hatchet throw of Huntress if they're right in your face? You can still utilize those perks consistently depending on the Survivors you go against (obviously) and your strategy. Right now, the optimal Strategy is to:
1 - Torment
2 - Down/Hook
3 - Down/Cage
4 - Tormet
5 - Down/Mori
Now if you're good enough, you can still use POP/BBQ/MYC, etc at a maximum of 4 times. That is still pretty effective. And even if you DIDN'T use those (meta) perks, you can still utilize other perks to compensate like chase perks. In fact, my Pig uses nothing BUT locating and chase perks (I.E M&A/Whispers/Endurance/Brutal).
It's about being smart
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It is true the PH himself can work around this by just not equipping any hook-related perks or by deciding to hook instead of using the cage. Survivors could be running hook-related perks and they'd be useless.
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Just like Tombstone Myers, or running stealth perks against Doc, or healing perks against Plague, Billy, or Bubba. Sometimes the killer you fight against counters your perks, the same way you can counter the killer's power with perks.
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Thats the problem though. Sure, everybody is pretty much facing PH every game right now, so they adjust their build to play against him accordingly. In a month or so though, he will be played just as often as the other average killers, so are survivors really going to keep their PH build or go back to the existing meta? If they want to shake the meta up they have to start giving more perks the Kindred treatment and make more perks viable on both sides.
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Or realize that you don't need Meta perks to win a match, regardless of what Killer it is. I'm gone in with a Treasure Hunting setup and have Survived with 1-3 others coming with me depending on how smart we were during the match as solos. I've also gone in with a build that purely focuses on boldness and chases and Survived. It doesn't take PH to get you out of using Meta perks, but it definitely forces you to think if using Meta perks all the time is viable.
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Yesterday, got sent to a box, made a beeline back as I was saved, no BT, no DS, still exhausted
great design
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I don't disagree with you, I love running plunderer builds or healing builds, but the meta is the meta and there will always be people that are still running perks like DS, BT, DH, Unbreakable, etc. Unless more perks become viable I don't think that PH is really going to shake it up all that much.
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The Meta is the Meta based on what you consider to be Meta. What I consider to be Meta as a solo Survivor is Bond, Spine Chill, Iron Will, and whatever I make the 4th perk which is usually Prove Thyself or something. A LOT of perks are viable but aren't used. DH, Prove Thyself, Tenacity, Repressed Alliance (a sleeper hit by the way since it negates PGTW), Head On, etc. The only reason DS and BT is widely used is because Survivors run into camping/tunneling Killers. But what happens if they aren't ran into that match, how useful were those 2 perks? How useful was unbreakable if the Killer never slugs? You're going off chance no different than you would against PH. Which results in usual death for those teams unless all 4 are excellent Survivors.
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I can't wait for people to start playing other killers again so I can get that sweet Repressed Alliance value :). Very satisfying feeling to deny one of the killers perks.
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This
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That's what happen when you rely too much on some crutch perks. Git gud
Edit : i'm responding to the first guy who answered
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learn what is a crutch perk, 32 posts guy. and stop saying "git gud" to people if you don't want to make a new profile again.
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I like the idea of a power canceling most perks. It’s a game changer. That’s what a killer should do.
As a survivor avoid getting tormented
As a killer know when to send other to the cage if you want to use certain builds
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100% agree
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Delete the cages ? NON, never ! Or this killer will be trash... 5€ !!!!!
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This. Because while PH can't gain BBQ, Pop Goes, etc survivors also can't gain DS, Borrowed Time, etc. Also you won't be cageing every time you can, you should save it for when you need too apply instant pressure without loosing momentum hooking people. It's a very strong ability as long as you know how too use it.
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So you killers are saying it is completely fair for pyramid head to go camp his cage. And then be able to instantly down the survivor. Because that’s fair gameplay. Right
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