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New killer promotes tunneling.
The new killer, being The Executioner, is a pretty fun killer when put on paper, but when put into practice, is absolutely pure chaotic evil. The killer's "Cage of Atonement" allows it to bypass Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time, though, at the expense of not being able to use Barbecue and Chili or Pop Goes The Weasel.
Usually, one of these Killers will immediately book it to the Cage once a survivor is in it, making it incredibly difficult to make a safe save unless the cage spawns directly next to a nearby survivor or the Killer paths poorly. This makes the game boring for the survivors involved as the savior is usually not chased, while the uncaged person is being chased so that Decisive can be ignored.
The reason behind this may be because some the Devs want survivors to use different perks besides the current Meta Perks to change the game a bit, but I want to see opinions.
Should Pyramid Head be changed to better suit non-tunneling playstyles or other playstyles, or should he stay the same?
Comments
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To be honest, every time i see PH tunnelling posts, it reminds me how strong DS and BT is.
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Stay the same. The thing that some players are potatoes doesn't mean that he must change
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Tunneling killers are going to tunnel, doesn't matter which character they choose to play.
And sometimes it is the right tactic, and needed to swing momentum.
Kinda like unsafe unhookers are going to perform unsafe unhooks.
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funny how killer mains like to deviate from the original post if it hurts their feelings of sad boys
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The post just shows how unhealthy these perks are for the game, they are undeniable meta and kill any variety. Nothing beats having an extra-hookstate basically.
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Precisely. It's no different imo to the Bubbas that facecamp. Is that the only way to do well? No, and in fact it's generally a worse choice to do that. Are people who like that playstyle going to be attracted to the character? Probably, but that doesn't mean the character is bad.
Besides, you objectively have a better chance to save someone who was caged than you do against a Bubba who's facecamping with his chainsaw revved. Bubba's right there from step one, PHead has to traverse the majority of the map.
I've so far had two survivors I've been chasing run me around the map to the caged person and choose to uncage while we're still in a damn chase. Altruism lemmings don't care what killer's being played either. Gladly hooked/caged the one dumb enough to do that and left the poor survivor with the idiot teammate on the ground to get picked up...no one deserves that #########.
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Pyramid head is extremely weak, his ranged attack is very situational and can be easily dodged, it is VERY easy to avoid the torment and the cages can be bad for the killer since it is very hard to pressure the caged survivor. I guess survivors are so used to having second chances that they can't take this L or learn how to actually counter him.
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Every one of these Pyramid Head complain threads boild down to one thing: "muh DS and BT broke bruh"
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@LordRegal , totally agree^
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Just remove the cage aura. Killer knows survivor is across map but not the exact location. It will cut down on the tunneling.
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It would be nice if Second Wind procced from being rescued from the cage. I could see that making some of the tunnelers DC because now the chase is too hard.
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then u don't have to uncage them, play selfish leave them let PH camp that cage, i don't care with my teammates after PH coming 'cause i can't farm anymore !,
and anyway tunneler always be tunneler no matter what they use is it wraith, spirit, bubba, PH, or etc. and tunneling is a tactic to make 1 survivor out of the game faster
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Boring for survivors = harder for survivors. Sounds like another "Nerf PH" complaint.
I've had survs still be able to use their meta perks by not getting tormented in the first place. Sometimes it's easier and better tactically to go for the hook. I've also had survs run directly to the hook/cage, especially while injured, screwing their teammates in the process if they get tunneled.
No killer is obligated to not tunnel. Especially PH, whose entire being is to punish and torment anything in his way. You get caught, get ready to take a ride on the pain train.
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This thread has came up on the last 3 killers... Cmon maaan
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It's as if that's what the killers job is..hmm
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No..what pyramid head promotes is actually having no choice but to make a safe save or play tactically, I mean srsly bro..just last night I made 3 killers rage quit..one was an ebony mori PH..the fact bt and ds have removed any sense of making a proper save from most people is honestly shocking to me
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Not true at all.
When they gave us BBQ perk camping was far more prevalent than now. Numerous perks have been introduced over the last few years to address both camping and tunneling including making DS changes for tunneling. The devs are continuously adjusting things because "I was tunneled"
edit added: in addition they gave you guys swivel hooks to address face camping
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How are they unhealthy for the game? If anything the tunnelling /camping is unhealthy.
Imagine being a new player and having the killer camp you or target you after you are unhooked. That’s not exactly fun.
They aren’t the undeniable meta. But survivors are somewhat forced to run them to counter the unsavoury play styles. Yes they are open to abuse which gives them a bad name but without them the survivor experience would be a lot less fun.
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For those unaware this is how effective he is at tunneling
He gets someone in torment before or after their first hook which is easy unless that person wants to run away from every loop and after he hooks them he proxy camps, Then once they get saved and he downs them he sends them to a cage, finally once they get saved again he just kills them because for some dumb reason DS doesn't proc on cages. The only way this doesn't happen is if the survivor is saved instantly but so what? they are now on death hook.
I have literally seen a PH kill someone by proxy camping them and then tunneling them after they got unhooked and that killer killed them in under 2 minutes. Hell I tried it out to see if i could win a game like that and guess what? 2 gens done and I already killed half the survivors and the last two stopped trying to do gens.
You can effectively kill survivors by doing what i said and it' way better and faster then camping even tho it's basically the same thing in which you just going after one survivor. IT IS PURE BS.
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usually i would think survivors would be the ones wanting whatever broken thing they abuse to stay in the game but MY GOD there are so many people who want this broken play style to stay when it is probably one of the most toxic things a killer has been able to do since leather face came out.
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If you notice the patern that PH instantly goes to the caged survivors then respond to that pattern by cranking out gens and unhooking as late as possible.
Once pyramid players realise they go to the cages for nothing all the time they will stop
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Give it time. Many pyramid heads are going to stop using cages.
1 BBQ. Bloodpoints are important.
2 Pop. Best slowdown perk.
3 his mori. His built in mori needs the survivir to be tormented. Getting rescued from a cage removes torment. Hooking people keeps them tormented.
The cage is good at certain points in the game. The hook is good for most of the game.
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So? Losing is not fun, the devs need to stop to try to cater to this mentality.
When I play league, do my opponents have fun losing? No. Do I have fun losing? No You can't balance a game around fun because a) entirely subjective and b) the losing side is not gonna have fun typically.
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The most annoying thing about PH 'bout tunelling is that your exhaustion don't reset if you're caged. Not really giving a chance against proxi PH.
Ah and that dosent count for Kindred, makes solo games tidious with all that.
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It may stand but it is also wrong, incorrect, and my guess is you havent been playing the game since before swivel hooks and other changes because if you had youd know these things are continuously being adjusted and changed to address.
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Using the cage has its own risk/rewards for the killer but when it comes to tunneling, using the cage seems like a bad idea.
This is of course anecdotal but I have found that way more often than not, the survivors can get to the cage before PH can. Hell, I've had the cage spawn feet away from me as a survivor; I had them uncaged and healed before PH could wander across the map.
I don't tunnel but if I did, I'd think I'd rather use the hooks and know exactly where my victim is than to roll the dice and hope that I can walk across the map before the other survivors get to the caged person. BT/DS will save a tunneled victim a hit (two at the very most if they happen to get both perks at once) but if I'm a true tunneler, I'll just keep going after them.
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I think that people have to realise, that not every of these complaints is "meh i cant stomp every PH with my 4 man swf group anymore and have to improve my gameplay".
Its more like some perks get useless in solo queue and especially for new or mediocore survivors playing against a just tunneling killer is annoying. I had 2 games yesterday, where all 3 other suvivors (red ranks) kept getting tormented. The killers (one rank 7 and one rank 4) just sent them to the cage, instantly got there and kept tunneling them. Even when i took the hit for them and tried to give the killer an easy target, i even let him down me and he just slugged me because i wasnt tormented and he was afraid of the ds (which i didnt even run). Its not even just the DS or BT, kindred, deliverance (which was even risky to use before if someone farmed hooks or you were hanged first) or we`ll make it. All good but not OP perks, useless in solo.
So another probleme is, that his ability encourages tunneling and some killers (especially new ones) get used to this behaviour. Like when i learned to play killer, i got punished for bad playstiles like only tunneling one person. I learned to adapt and play around some perks. Today i still 4k often enough even against meta swf swats and the continous improvement of my playstyle is what makes this game great for me.
So, cant we please find something between top tier perk and useless in solo queue?
tl;dr: new and mediocore players could get encouraged to tunnel as killer, form bad play behaviour which frustrates especially new/mediocore survs.
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want what? You said the devs basically ignore camping and tunneling when over the past years they have addressed it with multiple changes, multiple perks etc,... either learn to play against the new killer (git gud) or dont play PVP games?
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That's because survivors were outright absolutely broken to a point where a killer could not legitimately catch you at an insane amount of spots on the maps and are to this day the power role except for a few exceptions when it comes to killers (nurse, spirit)
btw I switched to Dead By daylight when I want to get ######### done at home due to the queuetimes for survivors, but killers are easy and fun right? That's why survivors have insane queuetimes.
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This game isn’t a league so you can’t really draw comparisons.
Even when losing the loser has to feel that they have been fairly beat.
Imagine what Killer players felt with the old Syringe and Brand new Part. If we go by your advice of “losing isn’t supposed to be fun” then those would have been left untouched.
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Surely devs don”t play in european servers. Killers of a very big country are 99.99% campers and tunnelers. Don”t promote these killers.
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No they wouldn't have because the killer only has an equivalent in objective progression through addons in the form of ultra-rares (most killers dont) or moris, it was a question of balance to remove/nerf them, not a question of fun. Because technically speaking 4 people had fun at the expense of 1 person due to excessive bullying that those items made possible.
Btw still sitting in that survivorqueue, had to suicide a 300ms ping game after 10 mins of waiting if you wanna count that.
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If you wanna camp there's bubba, also survivormains call everything tunneling that isn't tunneling. I play on eu and tunnels/camps rarely happen even with twitch.tv in my name.
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Sorry, but I know when I play against a xxxxxxx killer in the first hook. They’re so tunnelers and campers. In ranks 5-9 they’re about 25% of my matches. In 5-1 about 10%
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Yeah I call BS unless you play SWF with open profile or you teabag or run godloops in which case I can fully understand the killer. Doesn't happen to me, I don't play much anymore but there's not much difference between red and purple ranks and I easily reach purple.
Got into a game after 5 minutes just to have 1 guy DC because the killer was doc. I'm done for today lol.
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And Kindred, Wglf, We'll Make It, Deliverance, Second Wind, Slippery Meat. That's just off the top of my head. A power shouldn't neutralize 10% of survivor perks.
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killer perks are nullified to, so its balanced
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a) only freddy has a 70% killrate.
b) ranks weren't taken into account, esp with many survivors not playing optimally and derping around with friends, trying to unhook in endgame against NOED etc etc you like to leave out the part of "don't take those statistics as some form of balance statement".
c) This game has a massive amount of suiciders and disconnecters which heavily skews the statistics thus making them unreliable at best. Yeah there's afk-wraiths but those are few and far between while you have a ######### ton of survivors that just try derpy ######### and don't last even 20 seconds in a chase, a time that would require you to only hold W without using up any resources against most killers.
Heaviest survivornerfs were basically made in a time where killers gave up on this game (myself included btw), Palletvacuums, Pallet-count nerf (somewhat reverted), Flashlight instasaves and removal of fastvault at every situation.
Nerfs that would be required to make the game fun for everybody would be nerfs targetted towards the 10% of topl-players, in other words survivor hitboxes need to be looked at during loops and killer acceleration needs to be made instantaneuous while making pallets way more safe than what many of the current ones are for casualplayers, deathtraps. If survivors couldn't run around a killer for a minute anymore then we could look at camping/tunneling BASELINE solutions and incentives, not friggin perks.
The devs need to make up their mind and stop catering to ppl who play this game for a living and make it into a party-game (as initially intended by the way). And they need to stop trying to fix every issue with perks and/or killers.
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Not really. The killer has the choice to be able to still use those perks. I started looking through the Wiki and I forgot Babysiter, and After Care.
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I love that a power that puts survivors on a hook on the opposite end of the map from the killer is still considered a tunneling incentive. Just be honest, tunneling happens because it's just a good strategy for any killer. Getting a hook after one hit is better than two, and having three survivors on the map is easier than four.
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ummm survivors can still run perks too, you can still run Kindred etc,... BBQ wont show auras on caging people so its nullified, not sure what you reaching for.
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"Its pure chaotic evil" hes a ######### serial killer of course hes evil. I dont play killer to hand roses to survivors when they finish a damn gen
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Survivormains be like: "If I get downed 2 times in a row it's tunneling!"
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I tunneled an Ace to death yesterday as PH on the silent hill map. Not because I wanted him dead, he didn't do anything to be toxic. It was simply because he was the only one I found. I down Ace, hook him and leave. He gets saved, I haven't found anyone else so I go back to his hook. I see his blood and no other tracks. I try finding the one who made the save but they are hiding and all I can hear is Ace. So being the only person I could find I chased him again. Rinse/repeat until he died. It was a bad match for me. I don't like the new map. It reminds me of The Game when it first came out. I feel it needs to be opened up more. I see a gen or a hook, that's half the battle. I need to find the path that leads to it.
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That’s bad survivors not an issue with the killer the cages go far enough for an immediate save if people aren’t rescuing them immediately that’s the survivors fault and also at that point ds won’t be bypassed cuz you can 1 locker tech the ds or 2 just not run into trails hence killer has to pick you up
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Aftercare users would LIKE the cages tho.
They can get the ability by just healing the uncaged players and unlike hooks it isn't deactivated when the user is caged.
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I understand DS but can someone explain how BT a meta perk? In my eyes its a counter to an otherwise pathetic unskillful play style that rewards the killer for not doing anything. (P.s im a survivor main and have a lot off respect for good fare killer's)
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BT could use a cooldown, but the effect is necessary I feel for situations when the killer won't leave the hook even when survivors aren't pressing for a save. DS is OP af though. It's meant to be an anti-tunnelling perk but DS users now weaponize it and play even more aggressively because of it. DS should deactivate after a few seconds doing an action like repairing a gen, doing a totem, etc. I'd support a shorter active timer too, provided it pauses if you're in a chase.
If you're doing objectives or not being chased for like 30 seconds you're clearly not being tunnelled. It's BS for the killer to be punished for downing you like 50 seconds after you were unhooked because you decided to play aggressive, or because you decided to do a risky gen right off the hook without healing first.
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"Tunneling" and "Camping" is a valid strategy, so no reson to complain about it. There are other games with other rules out there for those who do not like this game.
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Man what I just don't get is if the devs want survivors to run other, non-meta perks, why not just buff the existing 40+ almost useless perks that already exist? Give a perk like No One Left Behind the Kindred treatment every week or possibly month and see how that shakes the meta up. There are more simple solutions to addressing the meta than adding a killer that in a month or so you'll probably only see once every 10 matches or so.
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