Need your opinion: Toxic/Fair ?
I would really like to hear what people think about this:
Last night I played an interesting match, which caused some controversy in the post-game chat, to say the least.
PRE-GAME:
Killer: Leatherface.
Realm: Springwood
Ranks : Survivor = 2 red(one of them being me), 1 purple, 1 green Killer = Green(?)
FWIW, Bubba is just a bad,bad killer. Once you learn how to play against him, there is not much he can do really. He can hope to down someone near the basement, and that will give him a big advantage due to his AOE power, but as long as survivors stay away from the basement, at the very least 2 of you should escape.
MATCH RE-CAP:
- Everyone started separated and 3 of us were doing our own gens. The other surrvivor was apparently involved in some form of a loop because they happened to eventually get injured. We each finished our gens almost at the same time, leaving only 2 to do.
- I find and start working on another gen almost right away, It happens to be in the street, behind the fence of the school, but with a view of the school courtyard, where the injured survivor and Bubba happen to get to and are now looking at each other like 10m apart, walking but it does not look like a loop/chase anymore.
- Bubba walks over to the generator that is on the other side of my fence, right on the side of the school , and starts hitting it. At this point I get back to working on my own gen.
- The injured survivor walks up to the gen and starts working on it. Bubba does not hit him. I am watching.
- Another survivor shows up to where they are, and now those 2 survivors are working on that gen next to Bubba together.
- The 4th survivor comes over to me, and we finish my gen leaving just 1 gen before powerup.
- The 2 survivors next to Bubba stop repairing, the injured one gets healed by the healthy one. Bubba allows it
- They start pointing etc., and get Bubba to hit one of them.
- The survivor next to me walks over and starts working on a nearby totem, while I run through the hole in the fence to the other 2, to help with the heal, get plenty of points in the process and maybe even get +2 match points.
- The injured guy is blocked in a corner made by the gen and wall, and surrounded by the 2 of us.
- Bubba gets behind us, powers up the chainsaw and c'est la vie.
- Now not only we still got 1 gen left, but we added 3 downed survivors. There is even a hook right next to the gen (corner of same building). I go on it first. I use up my attempts, and suicide right away, hoping to maybe die within 10 seconds to protect the last from hook penalty (still don't know if that even works).
- 2 other downed survivors are stuck in a spot where the 4th cannot even attempt any serious rescue. Since the killer no longer has a hook next to him, so he keeps them on the ground.
- The 4th survivor (the other red rank) must have thought that even with Gold Lightbringer (last gen), and Unbroken, blanking Evader and Benevolent(due to hook penalties) will result in a definite de-pip. He decided to go pop the last generator.
- After like 45 seconds, Bubba picked up one of the survivors and hooked them. So 1 hook, 1 dying state now. When the generator popped, I think he had BBQ and saw where the last survivor was, so he picked up the dying state survivor, walked inside the school, downstairs and hooked them in the basement.
- Here I switched back to the lobby to look at everyone's perks to see if anyone actually brought BT/DS.
- When I came back it was already engame collapse , one of the hooked survivors was no longer on the hook, but now in the dying state. Basement hook was just getting sacrificed. The last survivor was getting out through an open exit gate . I guess he decided to open the gate while the killer was carrying a survivor down into the basement.
- I have no idea how the dying state survivor actually eventually died. He may have been left to bleed out to purposely prevent DS. I was already back in the post-game lobby watching the chat box about to erupt.
POST-GAME:
I expected to see some grief and criticism, but the amount of vitriol in the post game chat actually surprised me. Every survivor de-piped, but I what surprised me the most was that I was the only one who honestly thought we deserved it, and the killer had nothing to either apologize nor be ashamed of. The killer didn't appear to play it off as purposely toxic right of the bat in the chat, but once the injured red-ranked survivor that barely escaped started mouthing off how he outplayed the killer, when in reality the thing that saved him happened to be little more than pure luck of being the closest to the totem and going for it after the 4th gen popped.
My Personal Opinion:
We rushed it down to 2 gens so quickly; I may have even actually brought a 32c toolbox with extra charges this particular time. Without any hooks, or injured states, the killer seemingly had no options. At that point, expecting any killer to still play nice, fair, whatever you want to call it , seemed silly to me. Slugging, tunneling, and anything available in a particular killer's arsenal to keep the pressure up and slow the endgame to a standstill would have been used by every other killer in a similar situation. After the 4th generator popped, his odds went down even lower.
However when all was seemingly lost, this particular killer went with a Hail Mary, and almost got a 4K thanks to it. He had to start already putting this into play with 2 gens left. Better yet, he actually had enough patience to not only wait for 1, but actually 2 more survivors to show up to that same deadly area. This waiting game eventually paid off, and he happened to pull out the chainsaw at virtually the most optimal (our worst) possible moment and map location. One thing everyone seemed to ignore was that he actually happened to use the only power Leatherface has as a killer in DBD. Everyone survivor - especially those of us who actually walked over to the spot, although the 4th one would have likely joined after the cleansing - knew Bubba had that specific power. Was it annoying to fall for a mind trick like this? Sure. However, expecting any killer - especially bottom-of the barrel Leatherface -to always just give up out of frustration, and let you walk over him just so you can get your max BP and/or +2 match points is way more ridiculous in my opinion.
I personally found his response refreshing, and a valuable learning experience.Has a similar match ever happened to anyone else, possibly with similar outcome?
Need your opinion: Toxic/Fair ? 40 votes
9 votes
31 votes
Comments
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
I don't think farming is good unless the killer downright refuses to chase or hit you, even if the killer is farming play it like a normal game. If those survivors got annoyed they shouldn't really they were the ones who started farming as well
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
Even if both sides are farming, never forget the position you're in. Survivors who agree to farm will most likely lower their guard. This can let Killers who may not be as good as those survivors in terms of skill to get some free kills when you least expect it. Whether it was a strategy from the start or a sudden change of heart... none of those seem toxic to me. He was still the Killer, he had the power to sacrifice most of you guys whenever he wanted, and he did.
"Survival is your own responsibility". Those who are aware of this can't possibly be mad at the outcome. Unexpected and weird game, sure, maybe even dumb to some... as for Bubba? He got his 3 kills, fair and square.
With all that being said, I'm glad you were a good sport about it and proceeded to take your time and tell the story here.
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
This is absolutely fair. As a survivor, you should know that there's always a risk when it comes to seemingly friendly killers. When I see killers hitting generators or pallets, apparently telling me that they're friendly (key word: apparently), I must decide on the spot if I trust them or not. Most times I will honestly, and if it ends up getting me killed, then it was my mistake, not theirs.
There are some precautions you can take, though. More than once I have faced killers who pretended to be friendly only for the last gen to be completed and surprise! NOED. My friends and I have even faced killers who pretended to be AFK the whole game (Wraiths are specially prone to this) for them to go murderous with NOED after the last gen is completed. The biggest tip I can give you is to ALWAYS make sure to do ALL OF THE BONES when the killer is being friendly or AFK, always having one survivor far from the killer when the last gen pops, ideally trying to open both doors (have one survivor on each right before the gen pops) and memorizing the hatch spawn location if you happen to run into it. Stuff like that can help.
I would never ever trust a Leatherface player though, omg. I don't think I have faced a single friendly Bubba, like, EVER.
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
He played very smart. He build up your trust and made a nice pudding out of you. Can you blame him? I really can't.
Also, i believe, sometimes is good to agree to a farming game. Like, if all the surv and killer used bp/exp offerings, then it should be interesting to play a game where killer get 8 hooks (2 per survivor), several hit and down with constant savings/healing a few chase with non hit and stuff like that.
But how it ends up... Is anybody's guess. Once you have full bp the killer could easily go on a rampage and kill you all or you could escape... It's all about luck i guess. I had an amazing game where i more or less carried 3 noobs survivors with constant chasing/looping, unhooks, savings etc and then i got Downed (killer was pissed at me).
Eventually, when i was the last man standing (well, crawling) he picked me up and stopped moving, so i could get off. Then he walked to every pallet to allow me to do stuns, and attacked the switch to let me know he wanted me to power it. After that he downed me and let me slug out of the trial. I'm sure he got +2 pip, and so do i. Had almost iridescent to all emblems..
It was his choice. Not mine.
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Toxic Killer - once you let the BP farming start, you can't just switch it off to get 4k
So, personally i wouldnt had trusted this situation and just did gens, 99 a door and after that, maybe had farmed some totems etc.
But, i would consider it toxic nonetheless. When i play as a killer and i know i ######### up or gut gen rushed, i go afk or pressure them a little and open the gates myself after the gens are done. If i consider farming i commit to it, because in my eyes a cheated 3k like this is worth equal to a 0k without any hooks. Just undeserved and unpleasent, really bad play.
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
It's on them. Don't trust your enemy, simple as that.
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Toxic Killer - once you let the BP farming start, you can't just switch it off to get 4k
Unpopular opinion: this was toxic.
But only because it infringes on one of my own self-imposed rules: Feigning like you're farming but only doing it to get survivors to trust you for an easy 4k is not only a sh*tty thing to do, it's one of the most toxic things you can do as a killer.
At that point better to just farm and let everyone in the lobby benefit by getting BP instead of being scummy. I don't understand the thought process here from Killer POV because it's possible for even the killer in this situation to not get a pip because you weren't doing anything and all of a sudden everyone is dead or dying in one action. The game doesn't reward that, that's not normal gameplay so it's obviously not accounted for.
So not only are you hardly getting BP as killer you're probably not advancing your rank either. You're in essence hurting yourself, just as much as you are hurting the survivors. That's worthless and a waste of time for everybody.
Especially since Killer queue times are the longest (at higher ranks) so you're also the one who's going to be waiting the most out of everybody in that previous lobby to get into your next game. In that sense you're hurting yourself more than you are the survivors, they'll be in their next game in less than 5 minutes while you can be waiting upwards of 10.
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
In my opinion, it's on them. When you decide to trust your enemy (in this case, the killer), you should always be prepared just in case the killer suddenly decides that he wants more than farming, he wants to get more.
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Toxic Killer - once you let the BP farming start, you can't just switch it off to get 4k
That's super toxic imo. I don't want to be in a prisoners dilemma with 80% of you greedy bastards.
If the argument is that a killer is justified in using shady tactics to secure kills, where do you draw the line? Is it fine for a killer who gets off to a bad start to body block a survivor in a corner until they either DC or get sacrificed in the endgame collapse? If it's possible in the game, sure, you're within your rights to do it. In many of these situations, sure, survivors could have been more careful. That doesn't change the fact that it's just the killer being a dick.
Some of my favorite moments in this game have been interactions with friendly killers. There was a Bubba just a few days ago that just gave up on chasing us and was just standing in the middle of the street on Haddonfield after getting destroyed for five gens, so my buddies and I decided to walk up to him, drop our items, and slowly nod at him until the endgame collapse killed us. The guy was super confused and happy in the postgame chat, like he was clearly feeling bad about how the game had gone, but we cheered him up at the end. Behavior like this just makes it less likely that positive moments like that are going to happen and increases resentment between killers and survivors. In other words, it's toxic.
Justify it away as "killers gonna kill", but we're all humans here. In life, if an enemy shows you some goodwill, you pretend to show goodwill back, and then abruptly drop the act and stand on their throat (or murder them with a chainsaw), you are probably a piece of garbage. Could they have avoided getting put in that position? Yeah, but they're not the dick here and that doesn't make what you did okay. It's the same for toxic Bubbas in DBD.
Post edited by notstarboard on3 -
Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
Is it fine for a killer who gets off to a bad start to body block a survivor in a corner?
- First of all, getting body blocked by a killer in a corner is on that survivor. Given the many different aura revealing perks killers have, hiding in any spot without a 2nd exit - be it a gap between garbage piles or a locker - is a huge risk. Similarly, there are inherent risks to doing 1-man gens in places like 2nd floor Hawkings etc. No survivor in their right mind would ever go into that room during a chase, and survivors who stay in those rooms when the TR is getting louder and louder cannot be described as either good solo stealth-oriented survivors or good team-oriented survivors.
- Secondly, any survivor who happens to already have banked Silver Lightbringer emblem, getting Iridescent Evader for the cost of Silver Unbroken would be a great trade off.
- Being at less than 5m of the killer, while the rest of my teams do gens? I wish I could get this lucky every game. If I already have my solo generator, my teammates doing the other 4 while I am in a chase, followed by exit gate opening will guarantee me 270 points needed for Iridescent Lightbringer.
- Gens get done, killer still hasnt given up on blocking? Even better, since my survivor icon will show me in a chase, my teammates will eventually look for me and the killer. Killer's dilemma: step away, and free the blocked survivor or give the other survivors Iridescent Evader Emblems.
- Some killers, who lose their cool and hit another survivor, will just give them a chance to upgrade their Benevolent Emblem through healing each other.
- If the killer steps away to chase the other survivor, the body block dissipates and I will be free from my temporary prison.
- If the killer hits me, then I can pass through their body block as well.
- No killer can keep me there forever , as he cannot body block 3 other survivors at the same time withtout some insane FUBAR situation that would require another survivor to act in concert with the killer. The killer cannot stop the endgame collapse either once a gate opens.
Ultimately, no killer can make a mountain out of a molehill with one sacrifice and this killer will de-pip, while the blocked survivor will at the very least get a safety in terms of match points, allowing purple and lower ranks to earn a pip. The rest of the team will make out even better, with Iridescent Unbroken, Gold-Iridescent Lightbringer emblems, easy Iridescent Evader Emblems, and If the kliller hits any of them they will potentially get Silver or better Benevolent emblems, for 2 pips.
What you describe is not a pro-killer but a pro-survivor strategy. At a certain point, if I happened to be this blocked survivor, I would be able to simply go AFK and do something else (take out the trash, make dinner, feed the cat etc. ) knowing that my team has gotten their pip, and my match points have gotten banked already and will simply be there when I come back to the keyboard. Any killer who feels like body-blocking me in a corner for an extended period of time is welcome to do so. All it will accomplish is turn me into a God-like looper as far as the Entity is concerned.
There was a Bubba just a few days ago that just gave up on chasing us and was just standing in the middle of the street on Haddonfield after getting destroyed for five gens, so my buddies and I decided to walk up to him, drop our items, and slowly nod at him until the endgame collapse killed us.
Your situation, as you have described it, is way more toxic of a behavior, than what I described in the original post as well as your previous body block argument. In your case, your description implies a match that featured a group of SWF survivors against a killer, who apparently was not toxic in any way but actually tried for the entire time it took to repair all 5 gens, in spite of being put in a hugely disadvantageous position from the start. He may have even realized something was off with regards to survivor's team communication, and simply decided to go AFK specifically because of it.
The guy was super confused and happy in the postgame chat, like he was clearly feeling bad about how the game had gone, but we cheered him up at the end.
Why you all decided to hang around till the end of the collapse timer, and sacrifice yourself is not a topic I wish to personally understand. However, I can certainly tell you that the vast majority of players would take no pleasure in either your teams' late game antics, nor the final result. Killers need to prevent generators/gates from getting done, get successful hits after short chases, and most importantly actually down and hook survivors. Hence why real farming matches tend to be quid-pro-quo situations. Killers get hooks/hits, break pallets, damage generators , while allowing repairs, stuns and heals. Everyone contributes some share of their post-game emblems (survivors miss out on Iri Unbroken etc. ), but effective rewards are way higher across the board.
Nothing about your match implies this was a game against a friendly killer. Nothing your killer did indicates he may have acted friendly towards you and the rest of your team, or that there was any type of a communication/interaction that may have implied a farming situation. Everything the killer did at the end implies they simply got fed up.
Even then, you literally wasted even more of this player's time: first by putting him at a tremendous disadvantage playing in an SWF match as Leatherface, blowing through all the generators, and finally by making him stay in the match till the very end of the collapse timer for virtually nothing in return in terms of either Emblems or Bloodpoints, instead of simply letting him move on to his next, real game.
Justify it away as "killers gonna kill", but we're all humans here. In life, if an enemy shows you some goodwill, you pretend to show goodwill back, and then abruptly drop the act and stand on their throat (or murder them with a chainsaw), you are probably a piece of garbage.
You, and your 3 other teammates deprived your killer of a chance to earn both match points for emblems, and bloodpoints to spend on their bloodweb upgrades. On top of that, with killer wait times being much much longer than survivors , you wasted that player's time by playing SWF and then extending the endgame even further.
You bullied this killer and the player controlling him for your own, and your friends' personal amusement. How can you ever call out another player's behavior and call them a piece of garbage?
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Toxic Killer - once you let the BP farming start, you can't just switch it off to get 4k
Sorry, but there is too much bs in this to tackle. I don't understand how pretending to farm isn't toxic but playing in a SWF, which is extremely common, is terrible enough to merit spending an hour or two writing a screed about it.
I guess playing well is taking advantage of the killer. I guess extending an olive branch to a killer who had a hard game is bullying. I guess when he said we cheered him up he was lying. I guess giving him free BPs is depriving him of BPs but body blocking someone in a corner isn't; it's just helping their emblems and they're really lucky to have that happen to them...
I'm out. Have a good day buddy
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
It was a very clever play by Bubba, similar to the AFK Myers games I've seen online. He saw a decent opportunity and took it. As a Killer, they're meant to be the bad guy, and in WWE the greatest heel-turns are the least expected and add so much fun drama!
As a side note, I admire OP honesty and humility in this. Unlike the other survivors, you'll be the one to improve most. Keep up the good attitude!
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Fair Strategy - survivors should have known better and kept the pressure up
It's fair. You should know better than to fully trust a killer. Always be a bit cautious around them. If they didn't do that before they will after such a game. It's the same with hatch. never trust that all teammates leave so you can get hatch. once you died on it cause someone stayed in until the last second (on purpose to kill you or not knowing, idc) you know for the next time you shouldn't wait that long on it.
If you don't trust the killer during a farm together, and they complain about it at the end, you're not the bad guy either. The one thing I learned from dbd is that 95% of all players are selfish when it comes to their points/pip.
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