so how does everyone feel about the current state of borrowed time?
it seems rather balanced to me but is it really worth a perk slot?
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Are you kidding? I run this in all my builds!
I love making sure the killer can't tunnel and even if it means I get hit at least the guy I just rescued didn't get dropped instantly.
Great against campers or if you must go for a unsafe hook
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It's fine imo. I wish people wouldn't rely on it for unsafe unhooks, but there's not much that can be done for that without completely gutting the perk
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It’s a must for most of my builds. I hate seeing fellow survivors being proxy camped. This is one of few counters to it.
Also it has immense value in endgame, especially when you can get other solo survivors to take hits for you so you can save without trading.
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How is it balanced when it encourages bad plays? I'll have survivors follow me to hooks to get the BT save, knowing their buddy will then body block for them. Or they'll follow me as I chase another survivor, in the hopes they'll be annoying/hinder/threaten me enough for me to hit and activate their BT.
If body blocking wasn't a thing? Then it would be in a more balanced state, Or if the damage transferred to the savior, so they actually run a risk for using the perk. Heck, make it so you need to take certain actions to gain use out of it. Say, heal two survivors and get one ticket, which can then be used for the save.
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Yes
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I think the perk itself is perfectly balanced. It grants the unhooked person a second chance at escaping a chase if the killer refuses to leave the hook area. They still have to mend (I've seen people drop for not mending), and I can't count the number of times that the killer still goes after the unhooked person, even after the BT hit. All it does is buy a little time; it's not always a get-out-of-jail free card.
People being dicks and making dumb plays to act like that doesn't mean it's not balanced.
But I definitely think it's worth a perk slot if that's the sort of build you're going for. I don't run it in all my builds because it isn't always necessary for what I'm going for.
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It is worth a perk slot. The only downside is if you go against somebody who really doesn't want you to use it, and is playing a character that can hide terror radius/go undetectable. Any of those characters can just camp and camp and BT won't do a thing to stop them. Otherwise, you can just make plays right up in the killer's face, so yeah I think it's good.
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Killers play around it now. They either wait ten seconds for it to wear off, or just down the unhooker. Either way they win.
It only really shines in end game collapse.
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It's not "bad plays," you're equating a known risk with poor judgement.
I'd rather see my teammates get off the hook and gain some distance, maybe if you even realize I gave them it you leave them alone completely and go after me instead, they get to live and continue to play, I can run you for hopefully a decent amount of time.
It's a good perk, it forces you to waste an attack on someone, creating more distance between them and you, whereas you would have just downed them and left them there assuming they had DS.
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I think it is a little overtuned at the moment. It isn't glaringly OP, but most of the time I see people use it to get a really unsafe unhook off for essentially free. I wish it were based on time and proximity to the hooked Survivor instead of just proximity.
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It is good to farm people with We're Gonna Live Forever that's for sure
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It's fine, just needs to not activate after the gates are powered.
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It seems you only read one part of my post.
'I'd rather see my teammates get off the hook and gain some distance.' That part doesn't correlate with what my main problem with the perk is. My issue is when the survivors DON'T use it to get away. They instead use it to body block for their savior, knowing that I either waste ten seconds trying to get around them, or I hit them, give them BT, and let the savior escape to a stronger position.
The other issue is when they fail the body block, and instead follow you as you chase somebody else. They can either body block if they manage to get in front, or camp a pallet, looking for the save/stun. Again, because they are invulnerable.
These issues would go away if damage was transferred, or at least some kind of debuff applied. There, the BT survivor would NEED to escape as best they could, instead of trying to hinder the killer, as the perk was meant for. Survivors wouldn't simply go in and play hook hot potato. An element of skill would be involved.
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I use BT in almost all of my survivor builds. You unhook them and they can tank a hit or the killer isn't anywhere near you and you can heal them. I believe it is balanced. If you go for the unhooker and you are being bodyblocked by someone with BT active, just wait 15 seconds. That's what I do. I don't think it has any glaring issues (such as DS being active even if you aren't being tunnelled), though it is powerful during the EGC.
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BT can only be applied when the unhook happens within the killer's Terror Radius. Many killers run Monitor these days, it's a really good perk to keep survivors on their toes. But that almost always forces a trade when that happens, especially when the killer tends to proxy-camp anyways, is already in range as the survivor is being unhooked. So the killer then will likely go for the savior, since they know they don't have anything to cover them in an escape(unless they had Mettle of Man). Likely that's why the unhooked survivor runs in for the block, it's so they can try to get everyone out.
I read your whole post, don't assume otherwise. But I don't have to respond to every point you make.
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BT can only be applied when the unhook happens within the killer's Terror Radius. Many killers run Monitor these days, it's a really good perk to keep survivors on their toes. But that almost always forces a trade when that happens, especially when the killer tends to proxy-camp anyways, is already in range as the survivor is being unhooked. So the killer then will likely go for the savior, since they know they don't have anything to cover them in an escape(unless they had Mettle of Man). Likely that's why the unhooked survivor runs in for the block, it's so they can try to get everyone out.
I read your whole post, don't assume otherwise. But I don't have to respond to every point you make.
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100% worth it
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IDK I still had killers tunnel me after being rescued by bt, because if it's a camping killer he gets first hit right off hook and he tunnel you until you bleed out our hits you again and it repeats
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Worth the slot, a lot of killers have been camping and tunneling recently.
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Overall its fine, I just wish it would deactivate when you start unhooking another survivor.
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'..why the unhooked survivor runs in for the block.' That's exactly my point. The perk should not be weaponized in such a way. It's meant to get a survivor out of harms way, not be used to shield somebody else. When multiple survivors run BT, that just compounds the problem. At least with DS, you can slug and move on.
Yes, the killer should 'try' to go for the savior (if you want to play 'fair'), but when a BT survivor sits in the doorway, forcing you to either hit them, or spend precious time going around the structure, then it's an issue. When a survivor runs up to a hook and pulls somebody off while you're cleaning your weapon from a swing, allowing the now BT survivor to body block the savior, then it's an issue. When the killer is given no chance to actually leave the hook before it's bum rushed and BT spammed, then it's an issue.
The fact that BT has no limit and can be spammed across multiple survivors with little punishment, aside from a good killer and decent latency that allows for a grab, is a balance issue. Do I want BT removed? No. I like the idea behind it. But is it balanced? No. Either give it a limit, remove or change body blocking, or transfer some debuff/damage to the savior, to add risk.
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its mandatory for any of my builds right now because of just how many Killers come straight back to hook to tunnel and/or don't wanna leave 32m radius of the hooked person. Although 1 hit of safety sometimes wont even save the person from still getting tunneled.
my only issue with it as Killer is when something happens where someone will get unhooked before i've even left the tile, i turn round to go for the person unhooking, and they both run to a doorway or something and the person with BT on them blocks the doorway so that even though i wasn't going for them i have to hit them to be able to chase who i wanted.
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It's a really strong perk, arguably the best in the game, but I really like how strong it is, because it's entirely altruistic. There are some slightly dodge combos, e.g. using it while your DS timer is still active, that can leave the killer without a viable target to hit, but if anything changes, I don't think it should be the perk that you use to help out your teammates.
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If killers wouldnt camp all day long BT wouldnt be used at all. Its killers own fault.
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The perk is very balanced and an essential for all survivors in my opinion.
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When a single perk enables teams to hookrush with ZERO fear then it's busted somewhat. I don't think the idea of a safe hook rescue perk is inherently bad, just when it enables whole teams to do the thing.
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That's the point of the mind game though.
And I don't think slugging is a good strategy, if you're constantly afraid someone is going to DS you might as well burn them, because if they have DS then they have Unbreakable then they have Soul Guard then they have Adrenaline and all the other perks you're afraid to go against. You might as well force the DS because at least they might miss it, and you can let them go knowing they don't have it anymore until you run into them later, or you can chase em down.
The game is human players vs human players. I know some people act like bots sometimes, but we all have clever ways of thinking outside the box and mind gaming each other, it's not just you doing the mind games.
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Pretty fair. the killer community says "Camping is a strat" what isnt even the chase in dbd. everyone is just camping because of the lack of skill at chases or to be an scummy killer and as long that exists BT will exist. you have your camping strat? and survivor have a counter for it. i think thats fair.
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I like it against my freddy because it doesnt work.
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Imagine being upset that the unhooked guy with BT is making a dumb play by trying to get hit and waste his own time mending, when you can just easily go around him. Lol
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Same.
Hit every guy with BT trying to go for unsafe hooks and it's not a problem. :)
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The only thing I don't like about BT is people will use the effect to body block for the person that rescued them.
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if u play with friends is very strong. with solos is not that impressive but still very helpfull i dont like how it works tho because even if the killer wasnt camping becasue survivors didnt even give the killer the chance to te leave and can work as a hook bomb perk wich in time to time and depending the killer is stupidly powerfull even if it seems a very dumb idea it just works with body blocks and stuff, extremely powerfull end game.
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Madness 3 should pause the Deep Wounds clock, but otherwise it's fine.
Also if it could stay dark when not ready, then light up if you are giving a survivor BT. With some killers/perks it's hard to know if you gave the guy BT or not, and knowing that changes your tactics.
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only if they are in dream world. if they arent is gonna work.
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It's a great perk, but I don't use it, because mostly I fix the gens in the match 🙄
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The perk needs to be distance based rather than inside of the killer's terror radius. Killers like Freddy, Pig, Michael, and GF can all camp due to having the ability to suppress their terror radius. Make it activate at 32 meters from the killer. Done.
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Let's just say Borrowed Time is one of many reasons why i like playing as Wraith...
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As a killer: I don't have a problem with the perk because I don't camp until unless the player is being toxic!
As a survivor: The way I see it. A lot of survivor's use it as a pitiful excuse not to take agro if they are going to do a unsafe hook rescue, granted you can't control who the killer is going after but at least take agro or a hit for your teammate
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It's one of the most OP perks in the game lol. Worth a perk slot is an understatement
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I don't see a big problem with it.
It can be pretty abusable by good survivors and bombarding hooks in SWF. But you don't have to worry about that to often.
It mostly effects hardcore campers, and if you want to try to counter them, then go for the perk.
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You do realize that 99/100 times, bodyblocking is beneficial for killers? You get free hits, you can instadown a lot of players by having them cornered and because hitting them makes both of you phase through each other, it means you can easily hook someone without them being able to block you.
Besides, you wouldnt realize how often having a body blocking your path allowed you to find a survivor you otherwise didnt see. I've had many, many games where the killer being stuck on my butt gave my location away, while otherwise they would have walked onwards and I could've easily broken their Devour, finished a gen or unhooked a survivor without them even realizing.
Body blocking is one of few mutual mechanics. It will hurt killers a lot more than it will hurt survivors if you remove it. Yet, I assume, you are one of those who only want survivor sided body blocking gone, arent you?
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BT is actually pretty braindead to use atm... and it is basically a staple of all meta builds.
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if anything its too strong.
while i get and support the anti tunneling part of it, it very rarely really gets used for this. instead it just encourages the BT survivor to go for unsafe hook rescues in the killers face without any penality (especially when the unhooked survivor bodyblocks for them), which is my main critique on this perk.
imo the best change right now would be to not give the unhooker a "safe unhook" score event, when the unhooked survivor has been hit.
currently you only miss out on the 500 BP and get the emblem penality when the unhooked survivor goes down, not when they get attacked, so BT easily stalls out that time and is basically a guaranteed "safe unhook", even when the unhook itself was the definition of an unsafe unhook.
maybe this will encourage survivors to no longer unhook in the killers face with BT, unless its necessary to do so. after this change, we can look at how the perk is now doing and whether its actually too strong or not.
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Its a perfectly balanced perk. Not sure why other killers cry that its OP or a second chance perk. Go for the unhooker. Its that simple.
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because this event there doing it alot more now.
like DS
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You seem to be mixing apples and oranges here. There is a difference between normal body blocking, which, as you say, 'can' be beneficial. There's another when they're body blocking because they have BT active. Two different actions. A 'free' hit will only give the BT survivor a free sprint burst, wastes three seconds of the killers time, and allows the savior, who they were body blocking, time to get to a strong position that they wouldn't of had.
I didn't flesh out the idea behind removing body blocking removal. Just that it would be the easiest way to counter the playstyle behind BT. Maybe only healthy survivors can body block, where as injured survivors get booted out of the way? I dunno, just something I threw out. It would make more sense lore wise, since we're talking about 3 meter tall killers who break pallets like cardboard, being stopped by a tiny waif of a Feng. Still an idea to mull around, but that's for another thread.
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No, both are body blocking. You're trying to give one another definition, but its literally just bodyblocking.
As for lore-sided. You do realize that the entity also empowers survivors to be durable so they can suffer more? Let alone that those survivors get penetrated by rusty meat hooks through their lungs and with some backrubs can breathe normally again. So yes, it would fit the lore that they can block a 3 meter tall killer. The entity is a mysterious being who enjoys seeing humans suffer and only picks the worst of the worst humans(yes, humans) to be it's killers. But the entity thrives on human suffering, so how to increase the suffering even more? By also letting the monstrous, but human, killers suffer just enough that they can still achieve their given objective.
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In my opinion it’s in a pretty good state, albeit annoying as killer, it can get you and your team out of pretty bad situations as survivor
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I personally prefere DS instead bt because I can't account on random having bt or generally doing safe unhooks. DS is more of a solo Q perk to me and bt for swf.
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