http://dbd.game/killswitch
I think Fire Up should be buffed
Fire Up is generally accepted as a meme perk, especially since it's usefulness depends on you losing, similar to NOED. I think if movement speed was included in the speed-up buffs, it could be an alternative to PWYF and NOED. Just make it something small like 1-2% extra speed per stack. I also think that closing the hatch should get you to 5 stacks instantly, since NOED works the same way because all the generators are technically done. That could make Fire Up useful against teams with a key. What do you think? Is a Fire Up buff enough to shake up the meta a little?
Comments
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No way that perk is broken.
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Current Description of Fire Up:
For each Generator completed, gain a stack-able 3/3.5/4 % buff to Picking-Up, Dropping, Pallet Breaking, Generator Damaging and Vaulting speeds for the remainder of the Trial.
First Proposed simple change to Fire Up:
For each Generator completed, gain a stack-able 3/4/5 % buff to Picking-Up, Dropping, Pallet Breaking, Generator Damaging and Vaulting speeds for the remainder of the Trial.
The reason why this simple buff makes it better is all in the numbers and how they relate to other perks. Fire Up is basically a different/arguably worse version of Brutal Strength, and Bamboozle. BS at max level gives you a 20% bonus in speed to Destroying Pallets and Damaging generators, While Bamboozle gives you a 15% boost in vaulting speed while blocking windows for 16 seconds, both of which do so from the moment you start the match. Fire up however, grants only a 12% boost to both breaking pallets and vaulting speed when 3 generators have been completed, and a combined 20% boost to both when all 5 gens are done. Stacking Fire Up with BS and Bamboozle makes Breaking Pallets is 40% faster, and Vaulting windows is 35% faster when all of the gens are done, which is great for chases in the endgame, but also means that it's practically useless at that point since you have roughly 20 seconds before someone opens a gate and the remaining survivors escape. Basically, The current version of Fire Up doesn't do enough to help when you're attempting to prevent survivors from finishing the last generators, even stacked with BS+Bamboozle, and is pathetically under powered on its own.
However, If the max buff it gives was increased by 1%... the change makes it much more useful: Gaining 5% per stack means you reach Bamboozles vaulting speed when 3 gens are complete, as well as match Brutal Strength's gen damaging and pallet breaking speed at 4 gens complete. This gives you much more pressure in chases by the time there is 2-1 generators left, giving you more of a chance to prevent that last generator from completing, and makes pairing it with BS and Bamboozle straight up double their potential when 3-4 gens have completed. With this small 1% buff, the perk becomes viable, and really decent for chase builds like, Enduring, BS, Bamaboozle, FU, or endgame builds wherein downing survivors quickly by the time the last gen is powered is crucial to making the builds work. It overpowers both the pallet breaking and vaulting speed only when there are no gens left, which would make it Ideal to have against a gen rush squad, without being completely broken considering the trade off for earning these buffs is that the survivors primary objectives get completed.
Another alternative suggestion for if you wanted to make FU really nasty... they could reduce the % from 4% to 3% at max, but also include gaining a stack for every totem that gets cleansed. With 5 gens and 5 totems, that would mean that if all of them get cleansed, and all generators get finished, you now have 30% Vaulting, Pallet Breaking speed for using Fire Up alone, and 50% Pallet Breaking speed when paired with BS, or 45% vaulting speed with Bamboozle. Considering that the Wraith has add-ons that already make these speeds possible from the start of the match, and even better when paired with BS or Bamboozle... I see nothing wrong with this kind of buff to Fire Up, and It would open up some really nasty Hex builds to encourage survivors to keep buffing Fire Up for you.
The last alternative Buff I'll propose: Like the OP has suggested, an increase to movement speed would also be Ideal, but having it increase movement speed by 1% per gen completed at every stack would make it pretty broken by the time only 3 gens are done (increasing MS to 4.8 m/s on the average killer). Instead I would propose simply having it gain a 5% movement speed bonus once all generators have been completed. Paired with NOED that would make the killer move a 9% faster, which would be a devastating change to how the endgame proceeds, and really make the survivors regret having ignored "doing Bones". Either way, that 5% increase to movement speed puts it in line with 1 stack of Play with your Food, and allows you a better chance during the endgame to actually down a survivor before they can escape. Which, in essence, is what the perk seems to have been originally meant for: "sure the survivors completed all of their objectives, but they also made it easier for you to catch them in the endgame."
These are just some alternatives to buff Fire Up and make it more viable than it currently is. My personal favorite is the first suggestion of simply increasing it to 5% per stack, since that seems to be the most balanced and fair trade off. What do you guys think?
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That perk is so OP, the only way to counter it, Is by not doing gens.
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Lol dont troll the bots they already dont do gens as is they dont need another reason not to
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I wish survivors did gens more so I can abuse fire up and stomp them.
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They should honestly make it backwards and start with the % at maximum and as the gens get popped bring it back to normal , its really not that strong and you have to basically be losing to gain a benefit from it
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Just make it 1% more effective. @TWiXT already explained why that makes it viable.
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Yea but I dont agree with it, it's a good idea dont get me wrong but you shouldn't have to be losing the game to benefit from a perk that's already not very strong
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The entire point of the perk is an endgame build synergy perk, and rubberband mechanics in this style of game isn't a problem.
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Besides, you don't need a perk build to help you when you are winning. Yes Snowball builds are a thing, but they aren't the only kind of build you can have.
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I realize that I'm just stating the fact that fire up is very weak , sure it's good for throwing off flashlight timing and doing a few things quicker but you might as well not run it at all when 3 gens have to pop to get good use of it , there are plenty of other perks that are a better choice and if you gave it more of a use at the start you would see more people actually use the perk instead of the same ol same ol build, but that's just my opinion we all have one
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We know it's not strong enough, that's why this thread exists. But whatever we change it to should still fundamentally serve the same general function.
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Memes aside...
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You stole my spotlight lol. Making me sound like a caveman in comparison.
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Said no one ever 😂
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That wasn't my intention, I apologize. As you can tell though, I've thought an awful lot about how they could change Fire Up to make it more viable/useful to killers. It still baffles me that when they did the Freddy rework last summer, they never even considered bumping Fire Up by 1%, and because they didn't it's still considered one of the worst perks available to killers. Lets face it, by the time there are 2 gens left, there's not much the average killer can do to stop them from completing, especially if none of the survivors have died by that point. Fire Up could be a good safety net in that case, with just the 1% increase, but because its locked at 4% per token, it can't even meet up with Brutal Strength or Bamboozle until all 5 gens complete... Which makes it almost useless in the scenario.
It's the same old story, Perk has potential to be useful, or a game changer, but the devs either don't listen to the communities feedback, or they briefly experiment with it, chicken out due to too many complaints, and nerf it to the point it's useless. The latter of which happened to Thanatophobia, which was momentarily increased to 24% de-buffs for having all 4 survivors injured. The least they could do for us is allow us to test any of the suggestions in this post in one of the PTB's, not that they'll listen if it turns out decent.
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It's fine as it is, especially if your build is for endgame or a snowball effect. It's not used for the purposes of "losing" as you call it.
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It's definitely not fine as it is. The perk is at its strongest when all the gens are repaired. You really think 20% faster picking up/vaulting/pallet breaking is gonna make up for taking up a perk slot?
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It does when paired with Brutal Strength or Bamboozle or both. Again, depends on the build you run. I've come out on top with Fire Up alone since it's stats boost EVERYTHING instead of one specific area.
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1-2% per stack sound small on paper, but in practice, it's a pretty massive increase. Even at 1% per stack, that would allow a 4.6m/s killer to catch up 33% faster. At 2%, that'll let you catch up 66% faster. Granted, only at the very end of the match, but even at 4 stacks you'd have a huge amount of speed that never goes away.
I'm not wholly against a buff for Fire Up or anything, although movement speed would probably be a little much. I do find it to be a pretty decent perk especially when combined with perks like Brutal Strength. Maybe not something you'd slap on in any build, but it can be combined with other perks to be pretty decent.
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As TWIXT mentioned, change to 3/4/5% increases - but I would add in M1 swing cooldown
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?gg nerf fire up
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If they want each perk to be useful on their own, they need to make them unable to stack with other perks otherwise at some points we are gonna end up with some other version of "Forever Freddy", or "Impossible skill-check Doctor"
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I think the issue is that you get brutal strength at the end of the game when you don't need it. Pallets are typically used at the start of the game, not at the end of the game. I think a good buff to fire up is making it start with 5 stacks and you lose stacks each time generator completed. You guys are making early game collapse partially because you believe that killer early game is problematic, but the killer is suppose have a bad early game because all pallets are up. This perk would massively help the killers early game in breaking pallets and vaulting windows to get fast early game chases. Instead, you have this useless perk that is suppose help you in late game when the effect is at its weakest. Basically what I'm saying is that killers are suppoe to lose early game because their first chases are always hardest as all of resources on the map are on the board. If you guys create an early game collapse, you could really break the game for survivor, especially in solo queue where your teammates are not exactly the best. If you want to make killer early game better, than invent perks that help killers early game similar to corrupt intervention and whispers. Fire up could be one of those perks.
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So? How is that different from 4 survivors running bt, ds, unbreakable and deliverance/dead hard or whatever?
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Here's a thought... what if the Fire Up was changed so the buff starts at 5% and increases at a rate of 3% per generator? That way the perk ends at the same power level but is more useful for more of the match. Because I think that's the problem people have with the perk. It doesn't really change much until it is at 4-5 stacks and by then the game could be pretty much over.
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Are you arguing against something I never said? And arguably the only ones that really stack there is Ds + unbreakable, one makes you dangerous to pick up and the other makes you dangerous to leave behind. Maybe bt + deliverance? But its only really DS + unbreakable thats dangerous in my mind.
I litterally only said that if they are gonna make perks strong on their own, they really need to make sure they dont stack to ridiculous degrees. I never said I minded perks being strong on their own. I am a killer main, so I only mentioned those playstyles because I know them. No idea what perk combos beyond the two mentioned that a survivor could run, that would be as insane as those mentioned. Primarily its the "Forever" version, like Dying Light, Thanatopia, Pop/Surge, and something else. All these perks stack and make gen progression insanely slow on some killers, but especially Freddy, since he got add-ons that help as well.
What perk combos do you have in mind thats insane on Survivor. Again, beyond Unbreakable + DS.
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I think a good change to the perk would be to have the opposite happen: You start off with the max amount of speed increase you can have, and every generator done decreases the speed until it deactivates. It rewards the killer for keeping survivors off of the generators, but also rewards survivors for doing gens by weakening the Killer's power.
I've had this idea for awhile @Peanits , and firmly believe it would be quite an interesting and balanced perk.
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The only meaningful buff would be to take away the gens getting done to power it up part. SInce freddys no longer an end game killer idk why his perks havent gotten changed as well. Like how theyre doing hillbilly and leatherfaces. Fire Up should be an activateable perk that gives value throughout the game instead of peaking endgame. It needs to be completely changed
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No, im arguing that those stacks across 4 survivors is stupid powerful. When you view the game as a 4v1 and theres 4 times each of those across the whole team its a significantly more difficult game. Youre thinking of 1 killer with perk combos im pointing out that theres 4 survivors that all have perks that synergize with eachother. Youre saying that if they made perks any stronger then they shouldnt stack but youre not considering how those things already happen now on survivor side.
Great example is For the People + Soul Guard. Pretty meaningless when only 1 survivor runs those together. Crazy good when 2 run it together while in communication. Absolute hell if all 4 are running it while in communication. Its the same thing when all 4 survivors coordinate their perks to optimize how much havoc they can wreak.
Nobody cares or talks sbout this but will ######### about forever freddy and impossible skill check doc all day.
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Never faced For the people + soul guard and Ds and unbreakable has never been that big of problem for me personally. But I see you point. I just dont think that "But the others can do it" is a good enough reason. I might be in the minority, but I just dont care when the 4man SWF hit-squad rolls into town. By the design of the game you were doomed to lose those matches unless you are playing spirit, nurse or possibly freddy.
The game wasnt designed to have any communication so the minute some work around makes that happen it immediately scews whatever balance may have existed. Luckily those matches are far and few in between, and if you feel like they are that frustrating the best thing to do is down 1, camp him and either get only 1 kill og slay the army of altruistic people. Essentially, just give up that match to move on to the real one. There arent that many sweaty 4man swf.
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Honestly, keep everything as is or maybe lessen some of the percents and change it from generators completed to hooks. It will still be an endgame perk. But would be vastly more useful mid game.
No need to add movement speed.
Plus, i dont really like perks that punish one side for doing their objective. Changing it to hooks rewards the killer for doing their job not for survivors doing theirs
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I don't like perks that reward you for being bad at your job. NOED included. Let's have perks that help make you better at your job in the first place. Look at what this perk would be inversely for survivor: 'for every generator left to complete in the match gain a stack-able 3/4/5 % buff to opening chests, Dropping pallets, breaking totems, and Vaulting speeds for the remainder of the Trial'. Can't we redesign some of these unused perks in a creative way to counter SWF groups?
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The only perks that are decent on a killer are groups that start to have synergy, meaning Fired up is still a useless perk like the many others killers can choose.
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No. Fire up is OP.
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