Thoughts on new ruin?
I kinda like it...
Comments
-
I like if. If a Killer is able to put pressure on the Survivors, it is a really strong Perk. And for me personally, more annoying than old Ruin. But overall, it is better that it rewards a good Killer rather than giving a Slowdown withou any effort.
BUt I dont use it, because I dont like to use Hexes. I feel more stressed when using Hex-Perks (even with old Ruin), so I am not really using them.
7 -
It's good perk if you get lucky with totem spawn. I've had so many games where ruin is gone in 30 seconds that it isn't even funny anymore. Might try to experiment with multiple hex builds at some point but for now I'll use Corrupt and pop or just pop if I'm playing high mobility killer.
5 -
I love the concept and hate the execution. It's a Hex perk, that immediately invalidates it for almost every single killer simply because totems are easy to find in all but a small handful of maps. That means you have to defend it. And only a small handful of killers can defend it enough to get value.
Conversely, when I play survivor I hate it because the rest of my team is allergic to doing hex totems and I have no idea why. I would love this explained. (It has nothing to do with a certain new perk, this has been going on for months)
8 -
New Ruin??? They reworked Ruin back in March, well before Deathslinger released... Far from new anymore
2 -
Amazing 🤩 but we either need more totems or better hiding spots
1 -
It's a Hex, thus nearly pointless. It either spawns in front of survivors, or on top of a gen. I find it a waste.
2 -
Ruin lasts until the end of a match somewhere around 50% of the time, last I checked. So no, it's not instantly cleansed every game. :)
We were testing one of the upcoming Killers, who was prototyped on an old build. Ruin was chosen, and it was the old one. Oh man I'm so glad we fixed this thing. It's way better now.
14 -
Much better for characters such as legion who can waste a lot of survivor time. I like it more than the original however I do miss being able to show off my ability to consistently hit great skill checks
4 -
I'm confused about what you said.
The way I understood the second paragraph was a future killer wasn't fun to face with old ruin when it was in prototype.
Was this DeathSlinger, Pyramid Head or something unknown as of now?
0 -
No, facing old Ruin sucked. It was just part of that playtest; the Killer was fine. :)
1 -
My theory is that:
Ruin was nerfed to stop killers from using it because devs didn't want to fix totem spawns. Even though they stated, they said themselves they were going to work hard on improving their spawns.
80% of killers used Ruin, now the number dropped, and the totem discussion no longer exists.
GG devs. You got us with Nurse, and you got us with Ruin.
8 -
How was it with old ruin? I assume much lower since players had more reasons to find and cleanse it (can't hit great skillchecks). Do you have dem numbers to share with us? I would guess 15%
1 -
Here, https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488, we explained why we changed Ruin. Here is the short version, quoted from that article. It's quoted, but the order of these reasons means nothing. They're just randomly ordered. So the claims that "we changed it because the noobs screamed about it" isn't really true. :)
--------------
We took a close look at the perk to identify what makes it so frustrating to play against. Three key issues were identified:
- Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better.
- The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer.
- Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.
5 -
Huh? For skilled players ruin didn't matter and for newer players it was too punishing. They made it more consistent and more powerful by allowing any killer that runs it to have better control over gens.
6 -
Hey Almo, what are those statistics in red ranked matches? I would guess that number is closer to 10-20%. There's a reason why slugging and unbreakable are gaining a resurgence. Hell, I don't even run pop on Freddy anymore. If you are rank 20-10 Ruin and Pop are fine. If you are getting into red ranks against swf teams you cannot be spending time popping gens.
0 -
I almost always check by rank any time I do analysis. I do not recall what I came up with on Ruin, and I don't have access to the stats right now.
6 -
Was it a bad idea though?
What happened afterwards? A massive exodus of killer mains, and from what I recall on the Steam forums, games were flying by, Red Ranked survivors were depipping even after escaping because matches were not lasting.
The response to this? Maps were reworked. So many resources wasted because Ruin was nerfed.
It all started with the Ruin nerf. It was a domino effect.
Again, my theory.
9 -
I run it regularly on legion and bubba. Im an r1 so usually mm puts me ahmgainst decent players. It does ok, outside of the games where someone spawns on top of it id bet it lasts to mid game most of the time, and usually by the time they cleanse it im already way ahead. Its a decemt perk.
1 -
That's okay, if you can report back in a couple days I think we would all appreciate it. I really wish you guys produced stats more often, I'm interested in seeing the numbers on things like that and how individual maps might affect ruin breaks.
1 -
Yeah, new ruin is trash.
1 -
Legion is probably pretty good but I find bubba to be an odd choice. Ruin always seems to work better on killers who have decent map control. I can't get mine to last midgame most of the time so it isn't very valuable for me.
0 -
- It's trash compared to old Ruin
- It's one of the better hex perks
- It's synergy with Surveillance is fantastic but when the totem is broken all white auras turn red which sucks
- As a totem it sucks when it breaks early, late game perk btw.
- There are more reliable and useful perks as such I don't use it often
8 -
No it works great on him. Ruin + Survelliance is a great combo on any killer but a killer that can 1 shot its ecmven better. I do ruin + suirvallance + bbq + m&a.
0 -
As a survivor I enjoy it. Playing as a killer I really do NOT like it. I feel as though With RUIN and Thana nerfed, we are relying more with the Core actions of the players and less impact of the killer's perks on-hand. If you want to really change the dynamics of the game. Your locator perks should be using a "tick" or "token" as you call them on BBQ, Nurses and Whispers to change the dynamics of the game MORE.
With killers learning to ONLY rely on locator and "Radar" perks. They are complaining that SWF and 1-6s are too powerful for them simply because they rely on perks that do NOT contribute to the chases.
The chases and the perks go hand in hand. If the killer is busy in a chase, they only take on 1 survivor (normally) so this means any one of the survivors tackling the generators has nothing slowing them down. RUIN and Thana did just that.
Thana forces players to find their team mates and HEAL them. While HEX Ruin, forced players to find the totem before the game could begin. We know that RUIN was meta, and it is no longer as such. So what can we do here to slow down the game or make better impacts to the chases, so killers can control the map more.
An example of the killer right now is : "The mall cop chasing the shop lifter". The survivors are trying to steal those generators away from the killer, and the killer has to chase them down. There is only 1 killer on each map, so that is the question. :)
1 -
Maybe totems should add skill checks? =>
0 -
But that wasn't at just red ranks right? That was including the stats for all ranks? That would make that 50% very much less significant.
2 -
Its the worst slow down perk in the game its a win more perk if you are behind ruin wont help you at all
0 -
Here's the new ruin experience a decent amount of the time at red ranks. Even if you make a bee line to the totem, sometimes it's not fast enough:
I always ran old ruin but almost never run the new version unless I'm testing it out. It's pretty solid when it doesn't get broken for a few minutes but I'd run it a whole lot more if the effect was reduced to about 1/8 or 1/4 of what it is now in exchange for it not being a hex perk. Old ruin would also often get broken within the first minute but it would at least provide some benefit within that first minute, whereas this needs more time to deliver any useful stall time for the killer. Corrupt and pop seem to be much more consistently good perks imo
3 -
At the very least, Ruin 1 should not be a Hex Perk.
1 -
Its a hag teachable. Her teachable perk playstyle revolve around hex totems their never doing that.
3 -
Okay, you make a good point.
0 -
Yeah, because it's such a trash perk that no one cares enough to cleanse it any more.
6 -
If hexes were redesigned to at least offer guaranteed value early on, it'd be good. But now, it could be randomly cleansed in a minute, and then you're a 3 perk killer the rest of the game. It isn't even close to powerful enough to justify the chance of being expunged so quickly.
2 -
Because when you play survivor, you're playing solo queue, matched with other solo players.
When you play killer, you're mostly getting coordinated SWF groups who cleanse totems for breakfast.
3 -
This data isn't granulated. Show me how often it lasts in a SWF group of red rank survivors. I doubt it'd be more than 10% of the time, if that.
Great for stomping new players or arguably decent for facing full solo groups, but you can't queue just against players the game was designed for killers to face, so that's useless.
1 -
You just forgot the par where NEW players aren't supposed to be Great at the game, I believe it happens, you know, with all games, people have to learn it.
But hey, at least we're getting some new early game mechanic to, hopefully, fix the problem old ruin was a bandaid for.
So, props, I guess !?
3 -
Still doesn't justify why the change was needed! It really sounds like the perk was changed because
- New player's weren't putting in the effort to hit great skill checks
- Y'all wanted to add more stress to killer's
- People can't hit the space bar to do a simple skill check
3 -
The totem spawns on new maps are much harder to find than the old ones. They have improved them. Just not in the way people were thinking.
1 -
Agreed, if the totem spawns on older maps were better it would be a perk worth considering. If red rank data shows it goes down too fast I'd suggest a NOED like buff where the totem appears dull until a certain amount of generators get completed. EX: rank 1 ruin shows dull until 1 gen is completed and rank 3 until 3 gens completed
4 -
Old ruin only benefitted bad killers against bad teams.
Mass exodus of killers? More like Darwinism.
1 -
You're way out of touch with the game. Why do you think everyone was running ruin in red ranks? Could it be...gen speeds??? Noooo. Couldn't be.
5 -
I prefer the new Ruin's effect as it rewards people actually playing the game rather than the randomness of skill checks. Still gets cleansed before I can really pump it's use though.
0 -
Old Ruin - if not found early in the game because of bad totem spawns - bought the killer time especially at the beginning of the match. That also allowed for more playstyle variety.
New Ruin doesn't help at the beginning of the match anymore, which leads to more scenarios à la "first hook, 3 gens done".
It's not a coincidence that complaints about tunneling, camping, certain killer perks/offerings etc increased when Ruin was changed. So if the intention was to make killers play "harder" against survivors, then it was a job well done.
5 -
I will always love the fact that one of the reasons given was because new and inexperienced players couldn't hit great skill checks, at a time when the matchmaking places new killers against vet survivors. Six months and still going with that.
I'd also like to know where you're getting the 'Ruin lasts until the end of the match 50% of the time.' Are you pulling this from higher ranks, or is the majority of that from lower ranks. I can imagine it being the case on reworked Lerrys, and maps onward from that update, but older maps? Yeah, don't buy it. Most totem spawns are out in the open.
5 -
It should regress at 150% instead of 200% and be a perk instead of a hex. But we know the devs will never do that.
2 -
But that might be annoying for new survivors and give killers free value. Meanwhile ds, dead hard, iron will, and unbreakable are completely annoyance free for killer and require so much skill to use.
No go enjoy your 4man rank 1 swf death squad as a rank 10 killer.
1 -
Now they should rework DS too
Ruin was one of the best killer perks ---> nerfed
No suprise when it's time to nerf survivor most famouse perks ---> nothing
3 -
I really do like the new ruin. On some killers who can apply pressure it is extremely powerful.
I think most of you guys don't know how annoying old Ruin was to face on console. On PC I hit great skill checks no problem but on PS4 I can not hit a great skill check for the life of me. It feels like there is a 0.5 second delay when you press the button thus causing you to miss great skill checks. If you wanted to win on console you either had to gen tap or spend the match finding the totem.
0 -
"That also allowed for more playstyle variety."
Yeah, such playstyle variety when every Build started with Ruin and PGTW as Slowdown Perks + (most likely) BBQ (if it makes sense on that Killer or not). Adding NOED and we have a Build that can be run on any Killer without thinking about their playstyle at all.
It is good that now players have to decide between Ruin OR PGTW. Now we have more variety in Killer Builds (way too less still, but more than before).
And well, Moris and Camping/Tunneling were also present with old Ruin. Killers are also doing it when 5 Gens are left, its not like they are only doing it as a "last resort". But I know, Killers are the poor little guys who need to be protected.
1 -
According to the dev earlier in this thread, Ruin tends to last until the end of the match around 50% of the time. While I'm not exactly opposed to this idea, it may also seem a little unnecessary.
It could work and encourage people to do more totems which could help against NOED as well.
0
