The BIlly Circlejerk
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Even Clown can overperform against potatoes.
He has never overperformed against good survivors.
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What are potatoes in your eyes, if somebody can go 40 games in a row without ever losing a single match then there's something wrong unless your standards are ridiculous for what accounts to a potato and what not. This game is not meant to be played for 1000s of hours or as cote would put it, try playing something else, I heard Civ5 is a good game.
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its because he is the most fun killer to verse and/or play as, the problem is matchmaking, survivors that have 50 hours going up against a billy with 7k hours is the problem, crackbilly is the only part of him i think should be changed. base kit billy is another m1 killer on loops
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fun is subjective, I have 1.4k hours pretty much 50/50 but im almost never SWF and Billy snowballs just too hard.
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true, thats why the best solution is to add ingame communication instead of nerfing killers, also buff the weaker ones, but they did a big mistake with billy,. will never invest a penny on this game.
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well im 1 of the best billies out there with over 3.5k and i will say this, billy went from A tier to C tier, no need to explain more, unless u want proof. and trust me hes completely useless killer right now, there is only 1 viable way to use him which will be boring and unsuccessful against good teams anyway.
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well im 1 of the best billies out there with over 3.5k and i will say this, billy went from A tier to C tier, no need to explain more, unless u want proof. and trust me hes completely useless killer right now, there is only 1 viable way to use him which will be boring and unsuccessful against good teams anyway.
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I never knew a skilled billy should have a difficult time beating noobs. Just imagine if the survivors are good.
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The nerfs given to billy are showing people the direction that the devs may intend on taking when making new killers and addons, or when reworking old ones. Non billy mains have just as much of a right to be vocal about the nerfs as billy mains. If we look at billys addons, nearly all of them are either usless or come with tremendous drawbacks. This is nearly the exact same as the nurse nerfs. The both had cooldowns slapped onto their kits and were given a lot of useless addons. It boils down to the idea that, "My main isn't being nerfed, but what will happen if/when they are nerfed/reworked."
Nurses power is fundementally broken. It's not something that you can compare to other killers powers as it removed a core feature if used properly, that being looping. Billy can't be compared to nurse as their are places where he can't use his saw. Billy also doesn't have to rely on his power for chases while nurse does.
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Because they are? Calling the devs bad isn't edgy, it's true. Claiming that Billy needs a nerf and everyone saying the devs went too far is edgy nonsense, because this happens all the time.
You don't need to be a game designer to recognize bad design. Do I need to be a game designer to recognize that Farron Keep is a horrid level in Ds3? Or that Clown is not underrated, as the lead DbD game designer said, but just bad? No. I don't, and neither does anyone else, and I love how you exclude the other 2 people I mentioned. And tru3, even if he is slow in your opinion, is good at the game, and has predicted several balance changes. Fools like you are more likely to lead to Kanye's election; I bet you're the kind of guy to blame Russia for Hillary losing in 2016.
The top 1% in this game brings the game a lot of exposure. Considering how most people are bad, specifically because the game design encourages it (survivor sided maps and balance, bad tutorial, weak killer balance, strong killers require a lot of time usually, etc) , a change in game design philosophy would encourage players to improve. Balancing around the worst players in your game, which DbD is more inclined to do, is not good for the game. DbD is a shameless cash grab with devs who don't even know their own game, unfortunately.
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Well it is your own fault for clumping up early game against a Billy, that's just how it is. The same would happen against an Oni.
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Nobody complained about Legion?
Are you sure about that?
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Oni would one shoot us on the first gen with his m1 attack how?
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But add ons that messed with the charge time/cooldown is part of the problem that pushed Billy over the edge. He needs to have add ons but not add ons that touch the timing of the chainsaw......hence why there are so many random effects in their place.
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He just gets one M1 and he wins the game. If you are a good Oni.
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Maybe but he wouldn't insta down us on the first gen and we could play the game and have fun before he catch us with his power so its okay for me I like playing against Oni
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LOL "Exposure".Those 4000-7000 viewers that some DBD twitchstreamers have is absolutely NOTHING, we had people trying to promote Hide or Die yet the game flopped hard, viewers worship personalities and often don't give a ######### what the streamer is playing.
I'm done with you, you have no clue about business OR gamedesign but you think you do. The dunning Kruger effect in full force.
I don't agree with Cote all the time but im glad he's in charge and not people with absolutely bonkers ideas that would instantly kill the game like Scottjund even tho I respect him or god forbid truetalent or you.
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Oh you poor thing. You weren't here when survivors had actual infinites, double pallets with really long loops, 2 windows and 2 pallets AT THE SAME JUNGLEGYM, actual instaheals, instablind flashlights that could not be avoided by looking up/down and could even blind from behind or while the killer was moving, 4 man old BPN which could instantly repair a generator, no entity blockers, much slower killer vaults(3.0 seconds), much slower killer pallet break(3.0 seconds), windows that didn't have a door right near them, pallet vaccum and faster pallet drop animation that allowed to get sucked to the other side of the pallet, pallets that stunned at the begging of the animation instead at the end, no stun when dropping down from heights, sprintburst on 20 seconds cooldown that didn't pause or slow down, selfcare as fast as a regular heal, pallets with a minimum distance of 8 meters instead of 20+ metters, 30 pallets per map, structures without holes in them, longer killer pickup animation, really strong map variations like shack, 3/4 jungle gyms near the shack and 2 pallet loops with 2 pallets each.
These things were a walk in the park. It's extremely annoying when new players keep saying how easier the game got now for survivors because they keep imagining survivor buffs, when they were not here in the old days to see how strong survivors actually were. Tell me again how easy the game got for survivors, please.
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that's a really bad argument because back then billy was actually one of the only killers along with nurse who COULD compete due to the ridiculous infinites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1xT0Z9-2Lg
The game was outright broken back then and I didn't even play because my standards are too high for such BS.
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I was here for all those things lol. But that was a different game. It’s changed so much that you can’t really compare it how it is now. People didn’t have as much experience as they do now that’s why it was the way it was before. The game is constantly evolving. So yes, survivor is still a walk in the park because killers just keep getting nerfed and nerfed.
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I'm not saying that some of billys old addons weren"t overpowered and needed changing. What I am saying is that he was given far yo many addons that will be completely useless. For example, who thought it was a good idea to give him 2 addons tied to flashlights, an item that may not be in your game and may not be effectively used.
Also, if it was indeed the addons that caused billys strength, then why did he get the overheat mechanic. This is the same case as nurse. People camplained about her overpowered addons, so she got a ton of useless addons and a decent cooldown on her power.
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Eh, Freddy is fine. Freddy actually has a counter (pre dropping pallets) unlike spirit who is definitely overpowered and takes no skill.
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Yes, Billy did need a nerf/ slight rework this is where you and I agree. But that's where our agreement ends. If they wanted to remove insta chainsaws, they could've made the add-ons that did that not stackable, they didn't need to touch his base kit in that instance. If they wanted to nerf his basekit, they didn't need to also nerf all his add-ons, that's not how you balance things. They nerfed both basekit and add-ons, and they did it too hard.
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Literally nobody but survivors wanted legion changed and oh my god are they eating their words now haha! I can make games extremely unfun to the point where they just give up at rank 1 now. Kill one and force the rest to mend for eternity
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Scottjund, Tru3talent, Zubatlel are survivormains now? The only one who didn't think a nerf was neccesary (as it wasn't even old legion was very balanced, unfun but balanced around the chasetimes that devs intended in the first place) was marth88 afaik
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And you do? Lmao this game has never been balanced, the balance is terrible. If your position was that Billy needed to have his addons destroyed and get a huge nerf, then your idea of balance means nothing. So dumb and edgy, yet so confident in your stupidity. This community in a nutshell. Pea-brains like you are why this game is garbage.
Also, lol, Cote has gradually decrease the player count and turned this game into a cash grab. Most of the good players have left. Jund has way better ideas than the lead balance guy. It's so hilarious that someone who just has no idea what good balance is in this game is accusing other people of having no clue.
This is why I left DbD. Full of stupid people like you.
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I personally love Legion design-wise but he's probably the weakest killer whose power can only down if the survivor literally goes AFK. I think that's stupid ability design and should be changed. Considering there's killers like Myers and Oni who can shut down an entire team in one ability pop, meanwhile Legion goes amgery, stabs two to four guys and then his eyes go owchie and he needs to go into a corner while survivors mend up and continue doing their thing.
I don't understand why people are whinging and complaining about Billy. Old Billy is the brainless "Look at me covering the entire map for 4-5 seconds, gotta go fast" whereas now his ability is more meaningful and requires and rewards strategical thinking "Okay, do I keep my ability so I can hopefully down one or two people or do I use it to shorten the distance between me and them?"
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Wrong, games should always be balanced at top level play, or there is nothing to ever strive for. Look at any competitive game worth anything, they always strive for balance at the top level.
Imagine if chess wasn't balanced at top level, and white had an 80% chance of winning at the highest level play. Do you think chess would be a game that has lasted as long as it has? I doubt it.
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You are literally doing the definition of an Ad hominem attack: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem#:~:text=1%20%3A%20appealing%20to%20feelings%20or,personal%20attack%20on%20his%20rival
Instead of attacking the argument itself and presenting evidence, you simply attack the character of the person, which is irrelevant to whether the argument is good or not.
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Wrong, this is not a competitive game so it doesn't need nor should it be balanced around toplevel play. The devs themselved aknowledge this so there's no point in arguing, make your own asymetrical horror if you want it to work this way and watch it die in less than a week.
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If those are the reasons for the changes to Hillbilly I wish the community managers would be honest enough to say so.
As an aside, if a strong Billy was op against newer players then the solution, as always, is matchmaking, not kneecapping characters that some players find fun to use as killer.
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Will you come up with a matchmaking algortyhm for them then? I'm sure that the team known for huge bugs throughout the game's lifespan are able to make a really good matchmaking system for their 6-20€ game.
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billy was perfectly balanced the way he was.
devs gutted him --> community dissatisfied
legion was the most broken and unfun killer to both play and verse in the entire game.
devs FIXED them --> community happy (happy is a strong word, most arent happy with how legion is currently performing, but lets be honest: 99% of the people prefer current legion over the old one)
the reason no one complains about the legion changes is, because they were needed for the overall health of this game.
the reason why everyone complains about billys change is, because this was not at all needed and just ended up gutting who was widely known as the "most balanced killer in the game".
Add On rework? yes please (they really were over the top)
Basepower rework? HELL NO!
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Legion was absolutely perfectly balanced, each down of legion would take at least 30 seconds unless the survivors tried to do stupid mindgames, for the majority of the playerbase there was no difference between facing a legion or anything else (because a majority of the playerbase is absolutely casual).
You are talking about some vocal minority that no dev should care about.
Which community is dissatisfied? Billy is not played THAT much, the only communities that care about the nerf are ppl who watch billystreamers...newsflash, they dont quit over that.
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ooooh boi there are a LOT of things wrong with your statements buddy...
everyone hated old legion.
thats one of the very few things both, the killer AND the survivor community agreed on: old legion had to go.
so if one of us is in a "vocal minority", its definitely you.
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LoL, unless you back that up with some data I'll just laugh at your futile claims of being part of some huge community. Billy is gonna get nerfed, very well deserved and many ppl that I talk to agree he needed it.
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Ehm not to be a burst you bubble but riot games does exactly that. They balance around the upper half of the competitive ladder and the pro players.
They only design skins depending on popularity of the masses. Otherwise noob depending balance would totally wreck the pro play.
A good example is senna or aphelios. They nerfed both because they made them noob friendly with big numbers (like every new champ) and then tone them down according to win rate in rankeds, not normal games. You can still wreck ppl with both but you need more skill to do it.
Back to topic, bhr themselves don't play in the skilled matchups (rank 10 upwards) and thus have likely no idea how really good ppl play their roles ( I myself am only rank 10 since I prefer to play lol with my friends without paying on cost of 1 guys fun).
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When you are versing nothing but spirits and huntresses all day I am going to be at the sidelines laughing at you and your survivor friends.
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Funny, I don*t have many survivorfriends in the first place, I don't play DBD that much.
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They also buff/nerf champs that disrupt lowlevel play in a HEAVY manner like old evelynn, stealthchamps etc, so I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
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Over preforming ? Anyone who quoted that
Yall got any data ?
Cuz I see alot of escapes on that
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Speaking from experience as a Solo survivor, I’m glad Billy is getting nerfed.
I might know how to avoid his M2 but that doesn’t stop him from finding my teammates & snowballing hard which usually ends in a slug-fest.
There’s a special place in hell for the Billy’s that intentionality go for the 4K slug.
Even with the nerf he’ll still be a strong killer. Except now his chainsaw will overheat to actually give survivors some breathing room from his snowball.
What other Killer has huge mobility & an insta down? Exactly
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Mate, have you considered that these streamers are just ordinary people with their own opinions? The fact that most of them and people on these forums are saying that this change to hillbilly is unnecessary and very badly done kind of suggests that it really is an awful change.
I'm pretty much always solo when play survivor and I never found billy to be overwhelming to go against. Can he be a pain in the butt to go against? Sure. But alot of this came from team mates who just didnt know what to do against him and alot of the time panicked, but this was true for ANY killer I'd go against.
It only seems to be certain profiles on these forums that approve of this(not saying names) who seem to be a vocal minority with this topic
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Nobody cares if streamers think that it's a bad change, behaviour cares about the majority of their customers who built up this game, streamers didn't. Again everything here is a vocal minority and billy is overperforming against what most would call bad survivors. The change does mostly nothing against perfect survivors. Bad survivors can be m1'd to death anyways you'll just not end the game in 5 minutes.
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Except it's not just streamers that are saying it's bad, nearly everyone is. Streamer opinions shouldn't be held higher or lower than anybody else, they are players of the game just like we are,who happen to broadcast what they're doing.
Like I said before, ANY killer can over perform against bad survivors. But then again bad survivors shouldn't be put against killer players who are that good, that's a match making/ emblem system problem rather than a billy problem
The change will make it significantly easier for perfect survivors, a perfect survivor group was always very hard to go against even with hillbilly. They'd force you into a situation where you either m1 and chase them normally or just keep revving the chainsaw in the hope you'd get a hit but never getting it due to windows.
Bad Billy's would waste to much time trying to get the m2 rather than the m1 and end up wasting alot of time and could get beaten very easily because of this. Now yes his instant down could be massive against bad survivors, but how is that different from, myers, ghost face, oni and leather face? His map pressure, his snowball effect? All the other instant down killers can also do this to, especially oni.
All this change does is make his addons extremely ridiculous and gimmicky and makes his power fustrating to use even of you use it right. I agree that killers shouldn't be able to 4k easily against anyone (I never felt this way with billy)but I do not agree with killers feeling like an absolute sweat fest to play well or correctly just to keep up with even average survivors
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Yeah I'm sure out of 15 million players you talked to everybody and most (many of whom will be survivormains) will totally give a ######### about a billynerf, they enjoy being instasawed and basically losing to billy in their greenranks I bet.
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You clearly don’t know Otz,
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Right, surely you can say the same for yourself claiming it's only a minority who hate the change? It's so tiring seeing survivors and killers scream for nerfs just because they had a streak of bad matches against something they dont like, sometimes they're justified but in Billy's case it definitely wasn't.
His addons at most were a problem as it could leave him with having a very small cool down which I do agree made him able to miss a chainsaw with no consequence which was too much
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Exactly as goatslinger said, Legion was a hotly debated topic for ages.
The only circle jerk happening with Billy are the people all attacking one another when in reality they all want to release their pent up anger on kissing one another!
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I've challenged him to face me with his "overpowered" Billy multiple times. Always declined. With this new shadow of a former self billy it would be actually hilarious.
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