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Curb your ego, don't deny being toxic
Honestly if you really want to camp or tunnel or T-bag at every pallet for whatever reason- justified or not, just go ahead, but don't start crying when someone calls you out for doing it.
Literally every time I play survivor and someone rots on hook because of the killer camping, the killer gets super salty when called out in the end game chat and usually outright denies it. If you're "patrolling" a hook and someone goes into second stage/ dies because you refused to commit to a chase, you camped them. There's no denying it.
Same goes for survivor, if you're SWF and you rush the killer, don't start crying when you get camped
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Camping/genrushing isnt toxic .
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That's fair, but I'm talking more about clear cut cases, like if the killer chases someone away from the hook, and then spots another person crouching in the distance and switches targets, and then repeated until the survivors hook rots
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Yep. Always have survivors tell me I'm bad for tunneling a toxic player. "Flashlights are just apart of the game, you can just look at a wall, or bring franklins." Yeah, and I can just tunnel you since you like to deny hooks, since thats also just part of the game.
As a survivor, I understand completely when I get camped for doing toxic things. Or even for looping for a long time, cause I guess I can understand why that could be percieved as toxic.
Its so strange for people to pretend they aren't toxic in a game where the gamechanging plays usually have to be made in toxic ways.
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When i legitamately tunnel or camp someone and they "call me out" (🙄) for it I laugh at them. I dont follow made up rules. And no, I dont care about tbagging
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I teabag every pallet drop as survivor. I've just begun running DS so I can bully them. I made a killer quit yesterday on my first day really running it. I runt it alongside head on so I can abuse stuns and pair it with "Dance With Me" So they end up looking in the wrong direction half the time anyways. And then when I get the add ons I use flashies.
When I'm killer and I'm in full tryhard mode I keep tight patrols, run the most stalling of perks and/or NOED, sometimes just run basement trapper, and ensure that every down/hook of a survivor is commemorated with a teabag as Ghostie.
When I'm not a tryhard I split pressure and slug when they're about to die instead to secretly ensure that none die.
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Not everything in this game is cut that clear I am afraid.
I also don't think any of the things you have listed are toxic. The killer who camped for the sake of camping can and is allowed to do that. Call them out if you want, I know I do. Still doesn't make them toxic in a game where you are virtually allowed to do it. This is why I would rather turn it into feedback because I do think it's too much of a luxury in some cases.
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I agree with this. Just like survivors calling killers sweaty for using noed, but at running every meta perk under the sun.
Also this. I was playing spirit on the meat packing plant. I was getting my butt kicked, lost 2 gens for one hook and having a hard time catching a couple of them. Then they made a mistake and I got two of them in basement with 2 gens left. One cocky yui was trying to hook bomb while the other did gens.
Obviously I'm not going to pressure gens when I have massive amounts of pressure where I'm at. I got the 4k after their two strongest died in the basement. They gave me crap, but if I didn't camp, I would get the 1k. They made a mistake and I capitalized in the most efficient way.
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See, the problem there is that you lump everything in together. The reason why people are still talking about those things after all this time is because there is no single right answer. If I'm getting camped on the hook because my teammates are rushing towards the hook before the killer can leave, that's not the killer being toxic, that's the killer being smart. It's not his fault, it's my teammates.
Something isn't inherently toxic unless you're doing it with the intent to ruin the game for people.
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The thing is, there's no single definition of what's "toxic".
Someone might genuinely do something you find incredibly toxic, but in their mind it's totally okay. And it works the same way in the other direction. But I do totally agree though, if someone's going to knowingly dish out something even they know is commonly considered toxic, they better not complain if they get some in return as well.
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Well technically, that's not camping. If survivors are all around a hook, I'm not leaving as a Killer. If a killer can't find anyone yet stays close to the hook, then that's camping.
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Some people cares too much for there reputations, while playing killer who is intended to camp, tunnel, harassing as much survivor as possible... ironic.
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I love when survivor flashlight blind me after each pallet and then have to sabotage the hook in front of me. After that, it's go time for my toxic play.
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It is impossible for anything you do in game (outside of sandbagging) to be toxic, you're not cheating and if someone wants to get all in their feelings over pixels doing a butt dance or getting camped , then that's on the person that allowed themselves to get mad at a game in the first place, the only thing toxic in the game is post game chat
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Camping still part of the killer objective, we liked or not, despite being annoying as hell.
T bagging at the gates has nothing to do with survivors objective.
When they do it during the game, I understand they're trying to pull aggro, but at the gates? They're going out of their way to be toxic.
Just my two cents.
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I've had plenty of games where Spies from the Shadows tells me someone is running to a hook and I intercept and get called camper. Sometimes it is right to deny the slew of BS thrown your way. Other times, embrace the mashmellow smores and camp.
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Camping is toxic, killing survivors is your objective. if you're at 4 gens and you decide to camp, don't tell me "that's your objective"
some survivors T-bag at the gate when they escape a toxic killer, but otherwise yeah it's a dick move. Part of me thinks there should be something to make gates less safe, like "Run out asap or something bad happens to you". Maybe you have to face a hard skillcheck if the killer enters the gate while you've been sitting there for a while, but tunneling/ camping would have to be fixed first so that when you do escape it's not luck based
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doing this only wastes their own time, if you listen closely you can still listen for footsteps. I've been called a hacker before because of this.
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Nobody says it's more than just annoying/ bad manners, but people should just admit they were toxic instead of denying it/ calling the other side salty for pointing it out
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if a survivors runs straight for the hook, then yeah, but if you watch all sight lines and instantly abandon chase if you see someone going for the save while within TR, then you're camping which again, is fine if you have to.
I Feel like I should also mention proxy camping since a lot of people don't know what it is, which is just the killer using their power to go back to the hook. (Nurse blink back, using a power that moves faster to go back [Billy, Sprit, wraith, Freddy, Demo], surrounding the hook with bear/ hag traps/ etc..)
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There is a fine line between punishing greedy survivors and stopping a survivor on the hook from possibly being safely saved. Shelter woods/ red forest are horrible maps for this because of how open it is as you can see where most survivors are.
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being allowed to do something doesn't make it right. I /could/ slug a survivor on the ground for 3min 55s when they're the last one alive, but that would be toxic. This was the point of this thread, to make people admit when they've been toxic instead of denying it when it is clear.
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Had a match where one survivor DC'd before I could pick him up and kill him with a hook. Post game chat he was like,
"want to know why I dc'd? Because you did nothing but tunnel."
I responded with... what am I supposed to do? I've got one person hooked, I hook another person and the unhook notification goes off. I have BBQ and don't see anybody else, do I just not go to the unhooked area? The game was going pretty terrible for them, I always had at least one person hooked and by the time they unhooked someone, I already had someone else hooked. I was literally juggling hooks between all of them but because they were going down so fast, this dude DC'd because I was "tunneling" them and proceeded to try to call me out for it in post-game chat.
I tried to ask him what he wanted me to do. Did he want me to just ######### off and not go after them? Clearly they weren't working on gens and didn't even bother to let me wander away a bit before unhooking. But all he did was complain about how the game was boring because of tunnelers and didn't answer me at all.
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So is it toxic bringing a broken key with no add-ons in solo q to try and convince the killer to bring a mori? 😂 especially when your only running WGLF as your only perk.
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This is something I've brought up in the past as a suggestion for the broken key that is based off of the brown toolbox.
Broken keys should have a different model to make them distinguishable for the killer much like how the brown toolbox is actively darker and more decrepit looking then the other toolboxes.
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The term 'Toxic' is so damn flexible, it makes Feminists who yell out someone looking at them '######### them' that makes the judicial system have to double-check what they meant by '#########', look like a crude joke.
'Toxic' in dead by daylight could be used for literally anything if the Survivor (or Killer) deems it 'not right' or 'unfair'.
It can be toxic to camp or proxy, with survivors failing to realize that killers proxy or camp because they are aware that survivors are nearby and are trying to secure a kill or get MORE hooks.
It can be toxic to click your flashlight. (Suffice to say, this has become fact.)
It can be toxic to do LITERALLY ANYTHING that either side doesn't like.
It's also hilarious that the Survivors think most things a killer does, even their literal job, is 'toxic' and is 'unfun'. Failing to realize that you are having fun by tormenting the-
Oh my god. I just had a realization as to why there's so much toxicity. I'm putting this into a discussion feed, but either way.
'Toxic' in this game might be so flexible, it makes rubber look like a joke.
So trying to get someone to admit something 'toxic' isn't because they have egos and deny it. It might be the toxic thing isn't actually considered toxic by most people. But you think that there is a massive amount of things someone can do (or something bad enough) that you have to ask (or command) everyone to stop being so egotistical and admit their toxicity... Yet you don't seem to understand too many things are considered toxic for unexplained or unfair reasons.
TL;DR: This post is a joke. 'Toxic' has too many meanings and you can't just 'admit it' when you've done nothing wrong to some people.
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Ffs why would a killer just walk off and let a survivor save a team mate free of charge? Also, a killer can still walk to a nearby gen, kick it and then return to the hook to ward of survivors, which ain't camping.
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If anyone cries about toxicity from gameplay that's their problem , it's only toxic if you allow it to upset you , I dont care what either side is doing in game if it's a game mechanic it cant be toxic , people just cant handle losing anymore is the real problem , everyone has to feel like they're a god at the game or the world ends.
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I was wrong, Ego isn't killing this community, ignorance is.
Intentionally choosing to do something "Unfair or not right" when you don't have to IS the definition of being toxic, but people like you don't seem to have the empathy or game knowledge to understand what you're doing on a bigger picture.
You CAN win the game as killer without without camping or tunneling, you CAN win the game without going into a coordinated SWF group with the same 4 perks, but IF you don't HAVE to, it's toxic. Doing everything in your power to make the game unfun for the other side is- say it with me- T O X I C !
There are two human sides to this game, and if you choose to be play the same unbalanced way every game, not only is it boring as hell but it's unfun for the other side. I play this game to have fun, and cheesing the same bs tactic every game is not fun. People like you on the other hand play as trash as you want, but when you someone on the other side is a bit mean to you, you make a big deal out of it (P.S clicking your flashing is no where near as toxic as killing someone with 5/4 gens left :P)
TL;DR: The entire point of this post wasn't to say "all tunneling bad!!1", it was to get people to stop being stubborn and admit when they've done something toxic, but I severely overestimated the IQ and capacity for empathy of the average human being. Many people who act toxic, whether it be in game or in real life, don't even understand what they're doing.
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leaving the hook (to kick a gen) = not camping
staying near the hook and not dedicating yourself to other survivors to make sure no one can safely save = camping
"But if the killer is camping just punish them by doing gens lol" Most of the time, nobody else knows if a survivor is being camped. That's why SWF with VC is so strong, the entire team becomes dynamic and quickly adapts to new situations. Normal survivors gameplay (aka. solo queue) is the worst experience in the game because there is absolutely nothing that punishes cheap tactics, and there is no way for survivors to communicate.
Even playing a weak killer against a min-maxed SWF group isn't as bad as playing solo queue survivor most of the time, because no matter what happens to you as killer you can always get at least 1 kill if you're semi-decent and there are no game breaking bugs
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>camp or tunnel or T-bag at every pallet
Stop.
Comparing.
Strategy.
Which can be beneficial.
And.
Terrible.
Manners.
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Doing everything you can to make the game unfair and unfun for the other side is toxic.
You're right, we shouldn't compare T-bagging and camping, because Tunneling/ camping are objectively worse. T-bagging/ flashlight clicking only harms the survivor doing it by wasting their time, your "strategy" is just abusing poor/ overly simplistic game design for an advantage.
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>Doing everything you can to make the game unfair and unfun for the other side is toxic.
Did I say these strategies are to "make the game unfair and unfun for the other side" or they are "beneficial" aka "winning the game"? If I'm facecamping a survivor just to make him RQ, then it is indeed toxic, but if I'm doing that, knowing (for example) other survivors will come for rescue and give me free hits and downs, that is not toxic no matter how much unfair does it feel for the other side. Same for mori, strong addons and killers.
>You're right, we shouldn't compare T-bagging and camping, because Tunneling/ camping are objectively worse.
You can't say one or the other are worse or better, because they are completely different things.
>T-bagging/ flashlight clicking only harms the survivor doing it by wasting their time
And also showing disrespect and bad manners. That's one of toxic things to do, because they are doing that to make killer frustrated and angry and not to win in any way.
>your "strategy" is just abusing poor/ overly simplistic game design for an advantage.
I'm sorry that playing good is "abusing poor/overly simplistic game design". Also, my job is to kill and if tunneling/camping will result in more kills or will preserve me a kill in a lost game, I will camp and tunnel because that is the smartest thing to do. The same thing is applied to survivors, who (f/e) are going to rush gens (which is also considered "toxic" among some killers with same mindset as people like you) no matter how "toxic" or how "unfun" it would be for the killer who is camping in that situation, because that is the smartest thing for the to do.
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Toxic behavior: Clickling flashlights constantly, t-bagging constantly, constantly vaulting a pallet/locker for attention, shaking your head constantly on a downed survivor, standing on top of a downed survivor emoting through abilities, sending hateful messages.
unfun strats but sometimes justified: Camping/proxy, tunneling, slugging 3 players, gen rushing, 16 second chance perks
Strats that are completely fine: body blocking, hook blocking, flashlight saves, blinding at pallets, using head on, using certain perks (both sides complain), using strong add-ons, 99 exit gates, taking protection hits, proxy during endgame, chasing someone near a hooked survivor
Things that piss me off: Haddonfield, bloodlodge, ebony mori after first hook during 520%bonus BP, slugging all 4 people, hiding when theres two survivors left so you can try get hatch even though you could both work on gens, slugging for 2mins for the 4k, DCing or killing yourself on hook
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You sure about that? I've played this game for nearly 3 years and I've never once saw/heard that.
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If your talking about toolboxes its far more noticeable of a difference once you see as a killer someone with a brown toolbox(Darker shaded slightly more rust) and someone with a yellow+ toolbox.
If your talking about the broken key thing it does come up from time to time but due to how useless the broken key is as an item; suggestions to make it look different rarely get traction due to everyone ignoring its existence unless they are actively doing archives.
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I fully admit to camping, and tunneling when I do it. But most of the time this is still on survivors or just that there is nothing for me to do beyond that.
Tunneling is usually done if capturing any other survivors is not possible or likely to happen. Lets say I am playing against 2 Blendettes and 2 neas. In this scenario the neas are gods of looping, clicking flash light and in general never runs far from the strongest looping points. The blendettes on the other hand, are used to just immersing themselves and hiding.
In this made up and not at all happens all the time scenario, if I find a nea after a few experiences with them, I would ignore them and go for the claudettes if I find them. And hardcore focus them. If I manage to kill them soon it doesnt matter if the neas can loop me for minutes at a time if there is only one of them left to do gens. Chasing the neas is a huge detriment to my chance of winning. Is this tunneling? Absolutely but its the only game plan I have.
A more common thing that happens is if people unhook unsafely, and then hide or dissappear. Now I can waste time looking for someone I cant find or I can chase the guy bleeding, crying and leaving scratch marks. It happens every day. IF you unhook someone unsafely you have to take responsibility and take a hit or as they say "take aggro".
As for camping. I dont really like camping. But I do do it for a few reasons.
- Is the simplest. 5 gens are done and I have one on the hook and dont have noed. Im not gonna spend time risking everything for most likely nothing.
- I got pissed off at someone for something done during the game. Its not really a good reason at all but it doesnt happen that often anymore. Getting over most peoples acts during the game.
- Just general annoying things. Like if someone snuck in a key and I didnt notice(usually bring a mori to counter) or if its OOO. But those are just personal rules that also include tunneling. If you bring a key or you have OOO to me that just means you want a hard game or attention. You may disagree but I cant stand that perk or items
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-It doesn't matter what you say, what you're doing does give you an unfair advantage
-completely different things, because on actually affects gameplay and the other is just a little annoying
-Screwing over a player in a way that they can't possible escape, regardless of their own skill, is bad manners. Deal with it.
-You don't have to camp or tunnel to "play good", that's just a crutch you use when you're bad to gain an unearned advantage.
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Those things you just mentioned are not toxic at all.
The only thing that is toxic is end game chat.
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I'm just looking now at my mates survivor and I honestly can't tell the difference. Someone else clarify this?
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-Your argument is flawed from the start because "to be fully immersed" means you're doing nothing productive, and if you "stay near the strong loop point at all times", you're not going to be near/ doing gen. it's always possible to catch a survivor, the only issue is if it would waste too much time doing so.
-if someone instantly unhooks another survivor, slug that survivor and chase the farmer.
Nobody said you can't camp to secure a killer when 5 gens are done, if you decide to camp someone because you don't like them- that's fine but admit that you camped/ don't be mad if they call you out for it, and OoO is designed to get you tunneled so there's no harm in giving them what they want
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"actions mean nothing, it's only what you say that matters"
you WANT someone to slap you irl? and it's fine as long as they don't say anything mean to you? uhh ok..?
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What does reality have to do with an online game? They are ######### models. Grow a pair if a model going up and down gives you high blood pressure.
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At this point who cares?
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>-It doesn't matter what you say, what you're doing does give you an unfair advantage
Ehm, no it's not. It can be strong and it certainly does give an advantage, but calling it "unfair" is just childish. "Unfair" advantage is using bugs or cheating, which is strictly prohibited. Tunneling or Camping is simply playing differently (which is allowed by the game) and, often, more risky for a chance of high reward. It is survivors fault who either give up or reward such playstyle, instead of using existing means of countering it, such as focusing objectives (aka genrushing) because killer loses pressure on other 3 survivors for a chance to quickly kill one.
>-completely different things, because on actually affects gameplay and the other is just a little annoying
One actually affects gameplay and is often mandatory against competent survivors and the other one just shows how some people can't respect the other side.
>-Screwing over a player in a way that they can't possible escape, regardless of their own skill, is bad manners. Deal with it.
Xcuse me, when did it became hard to use your second chance perks and be less greedy on pallets if you see killer going for you so hard? And once again, no it is not if your goal is to win. Removing weak link from survivors' team quickly so when you chase good ones and have 1 less survivor on gens is called being good, because bad players would let that poor survivor live and will lose the match because he did the gens, while good survivors were keeping killer on themselves for a long enough time. And, of course, if the survivor is better than killer, he'll not lose the chase or will waste enough time to leave the killer with nothing, but I guess that's not your case, as I guess the only reason you could have such mindset is because you always end up being the weak link in the team.
>-You don't have to camp or tunnel to "play good", that's just a crutch you use when you're bad to gain an unearned advantage.
Lmfao, maybe I should play without perks and even powers to be considered good by kids? They are also crutches by the way. You either play a trapless trapper or you are not considered a good killer and you also must hook every survivor once, then twice and respect the ENTIRE rulebook, sure. I always laughed at how survivors players are allowed to play however they want and still are the complaining side, but when killer decides to play however he wants and stops being a clown (not a killer one, sadly) entertaining 4 kids and making sure they all have fun, he suddenly becomes toxic. Quit with your bs. Thanks. Killer's job is to kill you, deal with it.
P.S. Once again, I am reminding you and other entitled people who think killer is not allowed to play like that "because it gives unfair advantage" - learn to play and killers will not have unfair advantage. Thanks.
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Thank you
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Ahh sry I dont think I got what I was saying fully across. Was slightly tired when I wrote it, and im not always good at conveying my thoughts.
- The "fully immersed" was slightly more jokey as in they arent very good at looping and are only trying to hide. That entire imagined scenario was a drawn out way of trying to say that I was only trying to kill the weakest link so the time I would waste on the better loopers wouldnt lose me the game. And that if survivors wanted me to not focus them then they would have to take hits for the worse survivors. Its not easy but neither is chasing them sometimes. But I would argue that a lot of maps have main buildings (temple of purgation or Asylum) or just great loops near gens. And the good players know where to run to waste a killers time. That was my point. But I agree with you otherwise.
- Again not conveying my point properly. That was generally what I meant. If the other one sprint bursted away and I cant see them. I usually choose to eat the ds and chase the same person again. But if they arent miles away I will go for the unhooker after slugging.
- Agreed, nothing to add.
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I mean in this case if player input and intent has nothing to do with being "toxic". Then why do you care about words being written?
They say that offense isnt given, its taken. Fine I cant argue a lot with that. But then why do words written matter to you? In both cases they are aimed at you.
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Personally, I couldn't care less of what anybody says about me, good or bad.(although, i never mentioned I do care about what others say). it's having the ability of what you can say that is toxic(threats, racial slurs, etc that is).
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Some people are being toxic in-game probably becase they played this game far too long everyday, maybe 20-50 matches per day, it can burn you up causing you being stressed, tired, irritable, making you toxic. I even see Streamers played this game for straight 24 hours, seeing their transistion from being cool to salty asf #########. I know they are earning money but seems to be turning their career into into the much worst version of 9-5.
Most are just born to be ######### and there is nothing you can do about them. So if you encounter them in-game and are being toxic, teabag, bm'ing, camping, tunneling or doing all kind of shits that you think is ruining your fun, just ignore them for the rest of the game, if all of them are like these just exit or just go afk, it's not your responsibility to entertain these idiots. Why stress yourself with a bunch of strangers?
Just remember this...your health and well-being is the number one priority irl, you only playing this game for fun and pass-time (if you're not a streamer or youtuber). So if it's causing you grief, making you irritable or stress, just take a long break, or just quit the game.
Post edited by boobsandlubes on0 -
Fair enough. And same btw. I am merely trying to understand how you can understand why words can feel toxic to some people. But controlling a character model to do something that is known to be, at the very least annoying/mocking is just something people should ignore? I think both things are things people should ignore and one thing (racial/sexual slurs and threats) being worse than the other options. But I cant see why they arent both considered something that is toxic?
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