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For those calling PH and Deathslinger OP
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How does a 1v1 work? Even a no blink Nurse would eventually beat one survivor due to bloodlust.
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"Everything I lose to is op" ok I get it.
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Exactly
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I suppose a 1 v 1 is basically lost if the survivor manages to run you for minutes as that's basically a lost game for killer if everyone's effectively doing gens in an actual match (which is obviously not always the case especially in solo queue).
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I see. Interesting that Scott done that. Would like to see it for PH. That said if the survivor chooses to hide, then isn't that accomplishing the same thing (i.e time wasted).
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Ofc the survivor will go down eventually. The point is not that, its how long the chase lasts and to see this counterplay that person is talking about.
Again, no one is saying OP. When will people read and learn the diference between OP and uncounterable.
And i dont mind losing as long i have fun chases where my input as survivor matters a.k.a. not spirit, deathslinger and pyramidhead.
And i play both sides since beta, playing those killers feel cheap and not rewarding.
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Get a map with vaults that have drops and prepare to loop PH for eternity.
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If people actually wanted to try that "1 v 1" thing I guess the chase would have to happen under certain regulations including conditions like:
- the survivor can't hide
- the chase must start at a fixed location
- the chase must start at a fixed distance to the killer
- the survivor can't use perks that may end the chase artificially (Houdini build for instance)
- the "1 v 1" must happen on a map that's as neutral as possible (in terms of loops)
Someone should do that with all killers (3 times each) to see how long the typical chase duration is for every killer under similar conditions.
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Lmfao, but what you mean is OP. The implication is that you cannot win against him no matter what you do. And the key word there is YOU because YOU cannot perform without obvious reads because YOU lack the game sense.
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Yeah @Yamaoka explained. I knew about 1v1s in FPS games, new to me for DBD - guessing this is a KYF thing.
I don't think 1v1s proves much - skill of the killer and survivor can vary alot on regular matchmaking. PH is strong at zoning, if you watch Fungoose's video it shows that it doesn't translate to being strong in all aspects of a chase.
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Essentially it's like saying Dead Hard , DS, ect should have an indicator telling the killer when it's active because why should the killer anticipate that? Why should they have to think? The game should do that for them with a prompt that says "Take this action now
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this is not a 1v1 game, the killer is supposed to beat you in a chase unless you VASTLY outplay them and I'm glad that BHVR is finally going that design route.
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No. You can still win vs those killers. Just spread and do gens wich is the optimal way to play vs literally any killer if you want to escape. Again no one is talking about their power on the 1v4 scenario, its the chase.
You keep throwing accusations that im crying X or Y killer are op when its not true, and saying i lack game sense, when i play the game since beta. Would like to know how many hours you have and since when do you play the game.
And to see that miraculous counterplay that doesnt exist in chases vs pyramidhead
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Killers with no counterplay a good design route? Ok...
Im done with this thread now
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I don't think there is a killer without counterplay. I think I have given enough points to suggest that you can outplay a PH, just don't expect to at a small loop or if you keep giving up distance.
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Sounds like alot of crying
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We don't need this whataboutery. But I'll humour it this once. Game sense doesn't mean anything against Deathslinger, pyramid head etc. And it also doesn't mean anything for dead hard. Ok so you anticipate and know the exact moment a survivor will dead hard to a window or a pallet...now what? How does that help me play better against a survivor with any killer that isn't Deathslinger, Huntress, Nurse or pyramid head? Same can be said about playing against pyramid head. I can anticipate when he will use his ranged attack but if I don't throw the pallet and continue looping he's gonna walk through the pallet holding M2 and still catch up to me (because he's still faster than the survivor while using his ability). If I threw the pallet he would've hit me through it. This is what people are talking about when they say it's a lose-lose situation against this guy because no matter what the survivor does or anticipates it really doesn't matter unless they get lucky and the pyramid head messed up.
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I just hope they never do a Deathslinger 2.0. they should focus on making a killer that's a balance between chase and map pressure (they already had the perfect example, once upon a time this killer had a chainsaw that didn't have a stupid overheat mechanic, but they thought he was too good or something I guess. Demo is another good example though). Deathslinger is only considered balanced because he's on two extreme ends of the spectrum: extremely good chase ability but horrendously bad map presence. A balanced killer can provide players with much more options for fun builds and playstyles. Wraith is a good example of having a lot of different fun ways of playing him, allowing players to have quite a bit of freedom with him. And I think this is why Wraith is a killer that so many people love, me included.
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Do.....not......make....a.....bee....line.... the....vault.... also do not rely on vaults and pallets. You might actually have to start changing your game plan accordingly depending on the killer you face. Imagine that, having to adapt instead of repeating the same exact strategy every game.
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Too bad that would immediately make them a weak killer. Killers need power in chase or they are garbage in high ranks.
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Damn guess I won't rely on the two things a survivor can use against a killer to live longer. I'll just run away from the loop and not use windows and pallets like I would against Nurse instea- oh wait he moves 15 percent faster than me...darn
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Lmfao, I did not say you should jot use pallets or vaults but you need to be selective and at awkward angles. Once again do not just bee line to it like your typical auto pilot survivor. Play predictably get predictably wrecked.
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It's guessing for both sides man, that's why it's unfun. The window to hit a punishment is so small that a PH can't hesitate to see if you're gonna fault or throw a pallet, they have to guess. Same thing applies to survivors, they have to guess whether or not he's faking the punishment or if he's gonna commit.
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His punishment for missing should just be decreased in general, the way PH uses his power at the moment is so bland that it's dumb. No PH ever tries a shot through the wall even though they can in chase, cause it's just not worth it. It's easily dodge-able and heavily punishing on PH, making them only use it at vaults and pallets. They'd need to improve the punishment by a lot to make it worth as its own stand alone tool and not just a zoning one.
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I never understood the whole "autopilot" point people try to make. Like yeah I'd agree at areas such as the middle of blood lodge where you and the killer are sort of just running in circles with your brains switched off because you can see each other at all times, but everywhere else you have to think about the situation, even against a standard M1 killer. It's not much different with PH except now you essentially just guess if he will stop using M2 and if you guess wrong you get hit. This is only against good PH's though, because new ones will probably want to use their power in a fun way, trying to hit survivors through walls etc. I remember when everyone played him like that and it was fun as hell to play against. There were actual opportunities for predictions and mindgames but then people realised that it really wasn't that strong unless you were extremely good at predicting survivors so the meta turned him into a zoning killer.
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Stealth is such a boring way to play the fun of this game is the chase but when you have chases with killers with no counterplay and such flawed powers what do you have now a genrushing game.
Keep this in mind if we continue to have these types of killers survivors will genrush harder to get out of the game. When you say stop stacking aggressive perks you are asking us to change our build on the off chance of PH which is out of what like 13 killers?
Anyway my point is he isnt op at all just needs a cooldown and maybe a speed penalty when he cancels so its punishable.
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You trying to hop into a kyf cause I'm actually tired of you defending two braindead killers xbox one my gt is Azame San I can show you why PH has no counterplay.
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Yeah have that 1v1 with scott and showcase that counterplay the last dude got clapped it's your turn now.
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Scott already did that with deathslinger and gave the guy 6 tries.
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Since we keep using Scott as a reference, lets see what he has to say about it.....
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I was talking about Pyramid Head and all the other killers but out of curiousity: What was the average chase duration with Deathslinger and is there a video?
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No video but the guys longest chase was 30 seconds first to second hit and he also had a 9 second but based on of what scott said let's sag the average was between 10-15 seconds.
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More crying because you have to play in a different way. Get over it.
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Cant wait for bots to be added to the game. You'll fit right in.
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Survivors never liked being challenged and having to adapt to/find new playstyles, so expect both killers to get trashed like Billy and Nurse, sooner or later.
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Notice how you ignore the questions either get the 1v1 with scott going or I'm down to do it right now it's simple show the counterplay you are talking about.
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I still don't see what this achieves, Scott himself in this post has said he feels neither need a nerf. So what point would it prove?
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The point it would prove is the lack of counterplay he needs counterplay
You can compare the DS insta ads to insta blind flashlights the killer had to guess when they would shine and after the Mathieu got hit with it himself boom nerfed like a week later.
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Lets, for the sake of argument, say he has no counterplay, what would you do to improve him? Bear in mind a straight nerf will likely push players to towards spirit, freddy and doctor who have plenty of counterplay (kappa).
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You are objectively a bad survivor of you think DS and pH aren't counterable. DS you throw early or loop high walls and generally take advantage of his worse move speed, and pH, while certainly stronger than the former, can be countered by taking that you'll go to a tight area or loop, then going another way to bait his power and gain distance.
Also, holding W.
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Add a windup of 1-2 seconds and keep insta ads so he can pre aim and he cant unads instantly. The best way to think of DS is like og insta blinds never know when they will do it but it will happen in a less than a second and your blinded.
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Many people have answered these questions but you dont find them satisfactory.
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I offered something very similar for the deathslinger. Though this seems more of a nerf (as he already has to reload for 2.75s), for a killer who when he misses takes more than 20 seconds to catch up to a survivor (there is a good chance you can be out of his max range as well - since you can't catch up while reloading). If you want to make him have an even higher ceiling then you need to offer him some sort of upside that makes up for the change.
That said I much prefer an offer of a solution to the outright 'he isn't counterable' argument. Though for a killer that has low mobility, his chase power is his only saving grace (well awesome mori too) and even then it still leaves him below several killers in terms of strength.
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Many people answered these questions yet you find them unsatisfactory. Show us how he does not have counterplay and not just anecdotes of how you put yourself into a bad situation and lost.
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Sounds like a Call Of Duty bro. "1V1 me [insert homophobic slur here]"
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me, as a PC and PS4 player I can tell you the pain is only on console that's why I barely play there, in PC every DS and PH match I do I always have at least 2 kills and just 3 instead of 4 when I dont find hatch the first, never depipped as them. They should be easier to play as in consoles, and make DS a bit harder/longer to aim in pc, it's laughable in the DS case that no aim is really needed just quickshot or fake it to reduce distance.
Oh I see my text is quite long.
Conclusion: DS op in PC but hard as hell in console, PH in PC is fine in PC but in console is hard/impossible to flick.
I like purchasing the DLCs in both platforms to be able to do comparisions.
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I mean if we're using Scott as an example, he explains clearly why it's a problem. It's not that they're op, it's just that it leads to stale gameplay. PH's intended use of his power sucks, but with his zoning he can secure a lot of hits for basically pressing a button. Deathslinger can do the same and has a power you can barely react to. A chase with a Deathslinger is like Nurse but without all of the fun aspects. You just keep distance and LOS between the two of you since you can't actually loop him. But he never catches up and its just you holding w the whole match. PH is just cheap hits for free since "oooh I'm gonna do it oooh just kidding I didn't do it :))" smack. That's all PH's game play boils down too. PH needs his power changed to be more appealing to use and remove the zoning. At the current moment in time that's all he really has going for him.
Scott's video:
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I don't disagree. As a PH main I would take a change on his M2 (which I have stated before on this post). I just don't think either are OP and it doesn't mean they don't have counterplay. Both missing with their power can lead to a large gap between the killer and survivor, but if survivors are going to play them the same way they play wraith (for example) then of course they are going to complain.
I personally find doc, freddy and spirit far more oppressive as a survivor that these two.
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*than these two
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