Harsh truths for survivors that complain.
Every day I see someone complaining that this killer or that killer perk is overpowered and needs to go. Let me lay down the harsh truth for you as someone that plays both sides.
Survivors have the advantage in this game, not killers.
Objective times are heavily slanted in survivor favor, they're capable of being done in under 4 minutes. The numbers favor you, 4 survivors to a single killer.
Information is also survivor sided. You see in 3rd person, you have a 32m head start on the killer, you know which way the killer is facing at a loop. You also know when you're hexed. Add in swf and you get even more info. Meanwhile killer is crippled by awful fov and deafening chase music.
Perk strength is heavily slanted to survivors. Look at prove thyself vs thanataphobia, one grants 40% faster gen speeds, the other gives 16% slowdown. Don't get me started on object, ds, dh, unbreakable, spine chill, and soul guard.
Map strength is in your favor. Killer has like two maps that are strong, survivors have the rest.
Rng is in your favor. Kobe's, trap escapes, map offerings, hook spawns all trend toward survivors.
Finally, matchmaking is in your favor, there's far more yellow rank killers facing red rank survivors than the reverse.
So basically what I'm saying is that no killer or killer perk is overpowered. If you're losing, you only have yourself to blame. You have every advantage handed to you and can win 95% of your matches if you're a top team. It's ok to be less than a top team, but when you ask for killer nerfs, you're widening the gap at the top.
Comments
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Kobe's don't work for me if I do kobe off the hook it's always in the killers face😂
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what you just said goes for killer to.
you just wouldnt know it since your a baby at the game so I'll excuse you.
Survivor got non stop nerfing since 2016 while killer gameplay gets easier
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Maybe, and just maybe its because that's how badly unbalanced it was in 2016 and the game would have died if it stayed in that state. also you do realize killers also have been nerfed constantly right?
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I used to main Survivor. It was too stressful because /hard mode.
Now I main Killer for a care free easy life.
I don't get this thread.
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How does killer gameplay get easier?
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Ah the typical killer main persecution post.
Funny how you say the game is survivor sided and mention maps...
2 of the 3 safest maps, which a 53% and 55% kill rate had to be nerfed because they were “too strong”
But 2 of the deadliest maps with a whopping 69% and 66% kill rate remain unchanged.
But please, do tell us how the devs are survivor sided...
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Low rank Killer is pretty easy, not gonna lie... but high rank Killer (purple/red) can be pretty stressful. Unless you play Spirit or Nurse, you basically have to run perks like Corrupt Intervention, Ruin and PGTW to keep gens from popping left and right... meanwhile, I run goofy perk builds and non-meta perks with no items whatsoever as a red rank Survivor, with easy escapes... Lol
To say that Killer (against Survivors who at least know how to run around an obstacle, drop a pallet and hold M1 on a gen) is less stressful than Survivor is wild... I definitely sweat more as a red rank Killer than I do as a red rank Survivor... literally... 😓
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didnt the devs mention that they had more maps they were working on but didnt have time to include them? youre leaving out a bit of information thats pretty important.
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Give me examples of killers having an advantage. I listed mine, where are yours?
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i don't get this post you high play different game?
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Ok firstly I'm not disagreeing that survivors don't have the advantage. If a good swf team are playing, they have a big advantage. However during solo play, the killer has the advantage.
When you say about the game being over in 4 mins well that is true but the killer can end the game faster. The killer can pretty much end the game in 2 minutes if things go their way.
Killers also have massive information. Depending on your killer you can use attacks that the survivors can't hide from, hide your terror radius and hide from all aura reading perks. Plus hitboxes favour killer over survivor.
Perk strength and map strength can't be quite defined as heavily survivor favoured. The thing is some perks and maps are better for certain killers rather than others. A perk like Monitor is amazing on some killers but useless on others. Indoor maps are excellent for stealth killers but terrible for range killers. I would agree that survivors have some of the strongest maps in the game but I would say killers have more than just two maps that are good for them.
Rng isn't an argument. 4% Kobe, 25% Traps and hook spawns are just completely random. Rng is just rng, it doesn't favour anyone. The exit doors can kill the last survivor or give an easy escape, it's just random.
Matchmaking favours swfs, not solo players. The amount of bad red ranks means even playing a 2 man swf can be terrible of your teammates are trash. Was playing solo survivor the other day on Suffocation pit. I did all 5 gens while the other 3 were being potatoes. I even got chases for 1 min, didn't go down and the killer left me.
So are killers op? No not even slightly. Do I find some killers like Spirit and Hag extremely unfun unless I'm using the one item or perk to counter them? Absolutely.
The devs can't buff killer much more because baby/solo survivors are struggling right now. They can't buff survivors either since swf teams are already the strongest thing in the game.
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Hawkins is the most unbalanced map in the game and yet it stays and no confirmation of them touching it so no, no I didn’t leave anything out.
Also all the maps were adjusted in the killers favour so when they say they were working on more look at the context
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I think hawkins is fun, Especially on survivor.
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I have the exact opposite experience. I prefer killer, but if I want to relax I play survivor.
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100% agree !
most players can't handle the truth.
Surv Obj basekit is 420 with gens+gate included and skillchecks alone bring that down alot. Across 4 people its 105
Meaning killer obj is 35seconds find-chase-injure-down-hook 12 perfect times
Yeah right. The only way to play is cutting as much of your objective out as possible.
Using your time to slow them is wasted. A survivor tap defeats a kick by animation seconds alone. And regression is 1/4 repair that's a joke. The time you pressure someone is regained in 1/4 the time... with four survivors its 1/16
Killer perks don't have nearly the effect survivor perks do and they get 16
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The harsh truth is that survivors have the advantage and no killer is overpowered. The rest is examples why. I already said I play both sides, rank 5 survivor, rank 4 killer currently.
Looping itself is fine, I know how to moonwalk and mind game. The speed advantage is literally how it's supposed to be, and it's barely an advantage, see Scott Junds video on holding w.
Strider does nothing due to the chase music, it's fine when not in a chase. Using shadowborn to fix a design flaw is not a solution. There are 16 survivor perks in the match to 4 killer, the killer perks should be stronger.
So you agree on maps, but want the only two killer sided maps changed. You are definitely the prime target of this thread.
Random is supposed to be random, yet it always favors survivors. Totems almost always spawn by survivors, I've seen 3 kobes in one game with no deliverance, people escape traps on the first try far more often than the last. If killer and survivor both offer maps, it takes the survivor one 100% of the time. I had back to back matches with zero hooks in range of the exit and no oak offerings.
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I think the Devs say exactly who has the advantage.
Hint: Killers.
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That data is older than dirt. Pre ruin, pre map changes, pre toolbox nerf, pre DC penalty. On top of that, the same stats showed massive survival rates at the very top. On top of that, the dev's themselves say to take it with a grain of salt.
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Where are you getting your numbers? Prove Thy Self does not give a 40% boost.
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Sorry, its 30%. Gain 10% repair speed boost for every other survivor in a 4 meter range.
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Exactly, the data is after the Killer - Ruin nerf, the Survivor - Small Map Nerf, the Survivor - Toolbox Nerf, the Survivor - Instaheal Nerf, the Survivor - God-loop Nerf and the Survivor - Gen Slowdown Nerf when multiple survivors work a gen. And honestly, Ruin is still used and is still useful.
That data is only 8 months old with 4 major survivor nerfs, 1 medium Killer nerf and 1 medium Survivor nerf. (There were individual killers, such as Nurse and now Billy, who got nerfed).
And the data shows massive kill rates for all killers except Nurse. Usually hovering around 10% or more, better kill rates.
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Damn it, wrong again, stupid wiki. Its 15% for every survivor in 4m, so it's actually 45%
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Technically it's not even the full 30% the way DbD math works. Even then all it does is partially negate the negative. Which is not to say alot of the perks for killers don't suck. But honestly I'm sick of both sides whining about the other sides perks.
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ruin nerf happened in january, map changes and toolboxes happened in april. the data is from 8 months ago so the only nerf in the list that you mentioned that would have been applicable to the stats would have been the instaheal nerf/medkit rework.
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Those weren't major survivor nerfs, ruin was major. 70% isn't even a 3k average and it didn't count suicide and dc.
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also all of those nerfs were after the data was released, they dont count for the data cause those changes hadn't even happened yet
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Most of the people who post this nonsense were never survivor mains. I started as a survivor main and switched to killer around 3 years ago. I get the frustration on both sides. I laugh when I see the one sided posts from killers or survivors. They are typically short-sighted and sometimes entitled.
Everything the OP said can easily be turned back on the killer side as well. The game is just FUBAR and too few get it.
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^ this is hard truth! I play 50/50 red rank both sides if I'm having a rough day and want to chill I play survivor. Just saying
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I started as a survivor main too, then switched. But again, I play both sides and all killers.
Again, give me examples of killer having the advantage, I want to hear this. Moris are better than keys, and they get more points. That's all I've got.
The whole thing here is that both sides are frustrating, but you don't get to be the power role and still ask for nerfs.
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Objective timers have the potential to be done in 3 minutes, if killer does nothing to prevent it and survivors have prepared for a genrush.
"You see in 3rd person, you have a 32m head start on the killer" You see in 3rd person because its the best way we can create the feeling of being the prey, killers look in 1st person, because predators all have a first person look. The 3rd person view isnt neccesarily better, you can see more, but you focus on less. The 1st person view has a lot more focus, but sees less. Let alone that as killer, you know where all the gens are at all times. Survivors dont. Which might not seem like a big deal. But it is. You can decide from the moment the game starts, which generators you give up and which ones you dont. You can easily give up 3 gens on the opposite side of the map, if you have 4 generators huddled together. That is information you get before survivors even know where their teammates are.
"you know which way the killer is facing at a loop." Yeah, considering killer is the only character that can actually do harm where survivors rely on their surroundings. That's neccesary. Let alone that killers can moonwalk and remove that information at any given time, if they are good enough.
"You also know when you're hexed." So? Thats the point of hex totems: forcing survivors to clean totems instead of working on generators, of face the consequences of the hex. Considering the power hex totems have, that's more than fair. Sure, it can lead to a very early cleanse, essentially removing a perk, but that is RNG. It can be found the first second of the match, or never be found at all.
"Add in swf and you get even more info." This is the only legitimate point you got, but, it has a defect: thats assuming the swf work perfectly together. Teamwork is what makes SWF strong. But lets take a very short example: Teamwork of 4 people can finish a house within a few days. Solo building a house can take up to weeks if not months. Its why co-op times on generators have been nerfed, but not solo times. But the average SWF, even with additional information on if someone is in chase or not, only gets you so far if your teammate is bad at giving you information. I've had a friend of mine say "I found a burning totem, its behind me where I was hooked", only for it to be on the opposite side of the map, because he was too focussed on the chase. Losing us a lot of time than if I were playing solo and just continued to work on my gen. SWF can shoot itself in the foot real fast. Killers often ignore this because 1% of SWF is so efficient that it lasts in their memory, yet 99% of SWF tends to be like 4 randoms playing very altruistically. And too much altruism is the biggest weakness on survivors. I rather face 100 rounds against the average SWF than 1 round against 4 random solo survivors.
"Meanwhile killer is crippled by awful fov and deafening chase music." Its far from awful FOV, its just regular 1st person. And you do realize that music settings can be changed? If you cant hear someone speedvaulting because of the music, then your settings are not proper.
"Perk strength is heavily slanted to survivors. Look at prove thyself vs thanataphobia, one grants 40% faster gen speeds, the other gives 16% slowdown. Don't get me started on object, ds, dh, unbreakable, spine chill, and soul guard." You're looking at it wrong. Stackable positive and stackable negative works differently. Let alone, that for prove thyself to apply the full efficiency, it requires at least 2 other survivors being nearby the survivor running the perk, while Thanatophobia works regardless of their location. As for the other perks. Object of Obsession is the only legitimate complaint you could have. Soul guard is perfectly fine. Spine chill is perfectly fine, Unbreakable and DS are only slightly powerful when applied together, but even then are still fine. Deadhard is more than fine, and extremely easy to bait.
"Map strength is in your favor. Killer has like two maps that are strong, survivors have the rest." Someone else already mentioned it, but "survivor sided" maps where the killrate was 55%(even though a 50% killrate is BALANCED), were nerfed, yet a 70-ish% killrate map has been left untouched(practically 3k standard). Do killers really think a 3k average is balanced? Because its not. A 3k is essentially a 4k with RNG. Yet there is no map that has lower than 50% killrate. So technically speaking, there are no survivor sided maps. They are all killersided.
"Rng is in your favor. Kobe's, trap escapes, map offerings, hook spawns all trend toward survivors." Really? You think a Kobe is in survivor favor? It's literally 4%. You literally need to use a perk slot or 4 offerings and a perk slot to start having reliable Kobe's, and even then, the odds are stacked against you. Trap escapes can last 5 seconds to eternity, map offerings are rarely worth talking about at all especially considering Ebony Mori is more common than any other thing in the game. Hook spawns are ALWAYS within 20 meters on any spot of the map without hook alterations, including other hooks. You can walk 50 meters as a killer, meaning that there are at least 5 hooks within your carry distance at any given time(counting the basement as 1 hook too). Let alone that killer offerings in general have a heavier weight than survivor offerings. Meaning, that most of your complaints here, are actually killer favor RNG. Seriously, how is any of this survivor RNG?
"Finally, matchmaking is in your favor, there's far more yellow rank killers facing red rank survivors than the reverse." It used to be flipped. More red rank killers than there were Red, Purple and Green survivors combined. Meaning you had Yellow survivors facing Red killers. That is a match made in hell. At least Yellow rank killers tend to be able to handle themselves, it would be an extremely hard match(even though the lowest I've seen was a green rank 9 killer, so I am claiming your yellow rank killer claim is BS). Let alone that I as a red rank survivor have been put up against a red rank killer and have my teammates be brown ranks before. Matchmaking is in no-ones favor at the moment.
"So basically what I'm saying is that no killer or killer perk is overpowered." Spirit is extremely overpowered. No way to counter her other than guessing. I mean, thats like walking into corona affected hospital wings without any facial protection and hoping you dodge all the corona droplets.
Let alone that Pop is extremely punishing.
Basically, what I am saying, is that survivors are not overpowered. They have greater potential than the killer because of teamwork, but they cant make any mistakes if they do so. If you are facing a team and you cant even get 2 kills, that's 100% on you not being skilled enough to defeat the team you were facing against. Doesnt have anything to do with perks, doesnt have anything to do with SWF. Even the sweatiest SWF can be beaten by any killer in the game.
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32m head start? Even for killers with a 24m or less terror radius? Even with the multiple perks and add ons that decrease or get rid of the TR?
That's not how Prove Thyself works.
Survivors also experience deafening chase music and killers can hide their red stain either with perks, add ons, or simply mind gaming.
Kobe is 4%. Meaning it is heavily biased towards not unhooking yourself. Meaning killers benefit from that.
Hooks spawn EVERYWHERE. The only time you'll struggle to get to a hook is if you sacrificed 2 or 3 survivors in the same area. That's your fault. Even in that scenario.. you can slug and stand over them if you really need to.
Etc, etc
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a post filled with misinformation has so many upvotes but I am.
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Everything is in survivors favor and still the kill rates are around 70%. Makes sense.
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That is a loaded statement. Some killers, like my Trapper, struggle vs coordinated groups. Others are naturally strong, Like Spirit, Billy and Nurse. Towards solo groups, killers can be very strong. I destroy solo groups with Trapper, Pig and Doc.
At red ranks, which is not the majority of survivors by far, the survivor cadre is tougher, but 2 to 3k is pretty average. At lower ranks, killers destroy both solo and SWF.
TLDR: There are plenty of situations where the killer is the power role, and plenty where he is not. A lot of the times you get either killers or survivors who are not as good as they think and blame the game for their mistakes.
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Yes, but you can't pressure 4 people at once, and with garbage gen regression perks, hit and run doesn't work. You need hooks for pop, but if you commit, you lose. Ain't that a #########?
No, the Fov isn't even close to a normal fps. You literally can't see a survivor that's right in front of you. With a hex, you don't want them to find it and every survivor with more than 100 hours knows every totem spawn.
You're seriously going with swf isnt OP because people can't communicate well?
Chase music can not be modified, look it up.
Ds, unbreakable, and soul guard can't be countered when used together.
2k is a loss at red ranks, if the ranking system agreed with bhvr, it wouldnt be an issue.
Kobe always seems to work when killer is doing well, so no, I don't buy a flat 4%.
The way certain maps are designed, the hook is within 20m, but can't be reached, see haddonfield.
There was a thread today with a rank 19 going against red rank survivors, call bs all you want, it happens.
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Because the game is still too easy for survivors, the power role should not be struggling to keep up with "weak" survivors. You realise how OP survivor's were back then? And they're still very strong today don't even get me started on swf.
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It's the "killers good, survivors bad" hivemind of the forums. It has been present since the first time I entered the forums.
Just ignore these posts. They are just massive circlejerks that don't really contribute anything.
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The reason I stopped playing killer was the billy nerf. Now it wasn't because of billy specifically Just the thought of the next killer I find fun being nerfed, Its absurd. Why should i put time into a killer i enjoy just for them to be nerfed because some people don't know how to counter them. Now while all the factors op listed are somewhat accurate to an extent, I don't think they compare to your favorite killer being nerfed you know the one you put hundreds of hours into just for them to be ######### after an update. It makes no sense why you should put time into something you enjoy just for it to be taken away later.
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Yeah that's if there's 4 people working on one generator, which is really inefficient. It works maybe at the beginning with a Shroud of Binding but how many generators actually allow for all four survivors to work on the same generator at once?
Currently all Prove Thyself does is:
Does nothing to single man gen repairs, unless you count babysitting a teammate a good way to complete a generator.
Negates the penalty for 2-man repair speeds, making it mildly efficient.
Gives great efficiency for 3 and 4 man gen repairs. But only for one generator. The rest are completely unworked on.
And yet again, there aren't a whole lot of 3-4 man generators that don't put you in a really precarious position. In the middle of nowhere, or right in a big blind spot, or blocking the rest of the map.
Most common scenario is you get 1 person being chased, another working on a gen by themselves, prepping to save the player, and two others working on a single generator, one or both prepping to save the player being chased. Unless the killer is sitting in a corner with their ball, pouting that survivors gen rush too much, generator speeds aren't that fast. And once a killer has killed one survivor, chances of the rest surviving drop significantly based on how many gens are left. If there are at least 2 generators left, it's pretty low. More and it's almost a guarantee you're getting a 3k, 4k if you find the hatch first.
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Marth88 proved that you dont need perks as survivors if you just sit on gens. Sure, you're not actually winning but the killer will get 1k at most.
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There are never missing in these discussions the typical survivor main that do not fall below the rank of 10 as killer saying that the game is in favor of the killer
why are there so many ignorant people in this game..
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That was how long ago? The game has changed massively since they ran that experiment.
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They did it again and concluded nothing would change. It's still fundamentally broken because a single survivor can waste a killer's time for way to long IF survivors are just shitting out gens (Which admittedly most survivors do not do)
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So the killer should've left them and focused on someone else, not every survivor is going to be that optimal in a chase, there's usually always one weak/weaker link. In the rare case they all are that optimal in a chase maybe the killer should've tried to pressure them off said gens, or tried to force them into a 3 gen, which while not impossible to solve would at least extend the game.
Sometimes you go against survivors so optimal when playing killer you just have to take the L. Especially against coordinated SWFs, or even the rare coordinated solos. Like you said though, not every SWF is going to be going full gen jockey.
They DO need to go back to that promise of theirs of buffing up Solo Survivor somehow and imo adding a second or third MANDATORY objective for the survivors to do (totems don't count). I'm hoping they actually do something useful with this start game collapse of theirs.
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You don't have to be optimal, you just stop playing like it's some game and take the game seriously. No risky plays, no searching chests, no trying to save somebody from NOED if you can't find it. Is the game fun then? Of course not, but that's not the goal of a balance discussion.
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Any kill rate data right now, even purely from red ranks, is invalid due to the terrible emblem system and matchmaking that exists in the current state of the game. The skill range of red rank survivors goes from "extremely good top tier" players to "actually rank 10 boosted" players. It's nearly impossible to derank as survivor right now and many people who do not belong in red ranks are sitting in there. Likewise, while it's harder to rank up as Killer, there are red rank killers who don't necessarily belong there.
I still see people miss skill checks and run away from a killer that's not heading their way at red ranks. I still see survivors waste full minutes of time crouching by a rock while a killer camps a hook at red ranks. I still see survivors that can't run a loop and get caught by a killer within 10 seconds vs a killer that I later on loop for a full minute at red ranks.
These people dilute the pool and heavily skew the statistics. Until they fix the emblem system/matchmaking there will be no good data for solo survivor. SWF data however is easier to get due to the small community of competitive teams. It shows that, at least for good swf teams, the game is heavily in favor of survivor over killer. But this data is likewise not good as it only counts the best of the best survivor teams.
Basically any data right now is worthless and BHVR has to fix their ######### before you can quote data as if it means anything.
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Also let's not forget people suiciding, trolling or simply throwing the game by for example doing challenges.
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Correct, but you can pressure area's enough for survivors to not return to that location for some time. This is why giving up a chase can be beneficial to killers.
It is normal. Killers are much taller than survivors, and dont claim you can see your belly button when looking forward. Because that is where survivors are. If they take half a step back, you can see them. And no, totem spawns are more hidden, have more spawning places and new spawning locations are added over time. And while you dont want a hex totem to be gone, the design of hex totems is for survivors to be off a generator looking for it. So you want them to search for it as long as possible while you hook other people too. Once 1 person found it, its practically gone and it did its job. Same reason why wiggling isnt meant for survivors to get out, but its only designed to not bring survivors to the basement unless it is within range. As survivor you would want to wiggle, even though you cant get out. So whether you want it or not. Hex totems are there to distract survivors from generators. If they dont, they get punished for every second they allow the hex to work.
Yes, just as guns are not the ones who kill people, even though they obviously can. Change my mind.
Music and sounds can be modified, but not specific in-game sounds in aspect of other things. Aka, if you want to lower chase music, you need to lower breathing sounds too. But you do realize sounds can amplify and cancel each other out right? Making sound louder makes the amplifications larger, meaning that if you should be able to hear someone entering a locker nearby while in chase, but you dont, there are 1 options: 1, you have hearing damage. 2, your sounds are too loud/too soft. That was my point.
It can, eat the DS early game. That is the counter. Just as the counter to NOED is to cleanse all totems. As for Unbreakable and Soul Guard, well, yeah, but thats because slugging is so incredibly powerful. So if you down someone instantly after being picked up, you wasted SO much time from that survivor. It's not strong. DS and Unbreakable are strong EGC perks, but outside that, they are quite weak. Sure, annoying, but weak.
No, 2k is not a loss, that is your own bullshit definition. We all saw what happened to the game when kills were actually related to ranking, and the game was boring as #########. And even back then, a 2k was considered gaining a pip(aka a win) and a 3.5k was required for a double pip. Your definition comes from whiney killer mains who think that the average game should have a 3k. Which it isnt, no dev has stated that, the game doesnt state that, it is a headcannon win. And in fact, technically, as killer, you could claim whatever you want to be as a win. You'd be wrong, but you could. I could say that hitting survivors 0 times, is a win. Meaning I could win with a 0k. You would disagree, but its no different from your deluded definition.
Oh, thats bias. I've had all 4 survivors being hooked in the first 2 mins of the game, and had none of them being able to Kobe. So yes, it is a flat 4%. However, statistically, you're guaranteed to see all survivors being able to unhook themselves first try without any aid. Your personal experience has no influence on what is in the game, and it is a flat 4%.
You can reach all hooks on Haddonfield in time, with survivors bodyblocking you. Even if they are upstairs in Strode Residence. There is ALWAYS a hook right outside one of the doors, and a second one within reach. 50 meters is a LOT of distance you can carry a survivor, and a lot of killers underestimate how far they can carry a survivor. I've never had a survivor escape my grasp without all 3 other survivors intervening and sabotaging a hook. Which is 100% fair. They risk multiple downs to safe 1 person. High risk, high reward.
Oh yeah, it does, but that was not your claim, and not my point. Your claim was that matchmaking was survivor sided, its not. I've seen a rank 17 solo survivor in a red rank match. I've seen a green rank swf+solo me against a rank 1 killer. Matchmaking IS NOT survivor sided. It is bad, but it doesnt side with anyone. You may think so, because you're biased as #########.
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the fact that you got so many upvotes confirms that this forum is a circlejerk filled with entitled killer mains
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I felt the same way until about rank the mm system kicked in and I started playing against 50% rainbow matches and 50% all red rank matches. Now I get why everyone complains. In low ranks survivor half the killers are just campers and playing killer half your matches are solid red toxic swf
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There are still things that are frustrating for survivor. Survivor's are allowed to be annoyed by things that they find annoying as killers are. And im not denying that survivor's have the advantage but it sucks that people are saying "survivors aren't allowed to be frustrated or annoyed".
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